Radio Shack might skip the Giro d'Italia

[Publicus]

I think it is a better tune up. Hard, even more so this year, but not Grand Tour hard. We differ. The Giro/TdF double is rare. 12 times in 61 years.

The fact that Bruyneel's teams have won 9 of the 12 times since the last time it was done just proves his way correct.

Which would you rather be a winner of the Tour of California or a winner of the Giro d'Italia? I know what my answer would be....

And the fact that Bruyneel has won 9 out of the 12 TdF since 1998 is not dispositive of anything other than they won 9 of the 12. It's what you do if your singular strategy is to win the TdF. Your answer presupposes that everyone has that same strategy. Or that wanting to win the Giro/Vuelta or TdF/Vuelta or Giro/TdF is not a plausible strategy. Or winning during every phase of the year (Early stage races, classics, GT, post-GT races).

 

[Publicus]

.......................

From an article today:

Alberto Contador will not take part in the Giro, and so Vinokourov will lead the team. He said that he is likely to be supported by ‘at least’ three Kazakh riders there, namely Assan Bazayev, Roman Kireev, and Valentin Iglinski.

Former Giro race leader Enrico Gasparotto, Gorazd Štangelj and Allan Davis are also mentioned as possibles for the squad.

Stages wins, and not the general classification, are the goal in that event. “I am not going there just to start the race. I will probably try to show my hand,” he promised, before clarifying what his target would be. “Primarily, my participation in the Giro is preparation for the start of the Tour de France. I don’t think I will be able to compete for a podium place as this year the Italian Grand Tour has a very difficult route. So I don’t think about prizes.”

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/2928/Vinokourov-confirms-schedule-names-Tirreno-Adriatico-and-Liege.aspx

 

[Publicus]

None of last year's TdF Podium are riding the Giro in the run-up to the TdF.

Two are riding the Amgen Tour of California and one is resting.

Technically the other two will be resting at the Tour of California since neither is racing for the overall.

 

[Bike Boy]

Ohhh... I can see why JB is having so much trouble picking two competitive squads.
I'm telling you it's a very demading task. I just spend a whole 5 minutes on this selection

RS's ToC squad:

Lance Armstrong
Levi Leipheimer
Janez Brajkovic
Gregory Rast
Yaroslav Popovych
Jose Luis Rubiera
Daryl Impey
Thomas Vaitkus

RS's Giro squad:

Andreas Klöden
Chris Horner
Jason McCartney
Haimar Zubeldia
Gert Steegmans
Sergio Paulinho
Dmitriy Muravyev
Markel Irizar
Sebastien Rosseler

Boy I'm glad I'm not in his shoes.....

 

[flicker]

If they let Levi shoot for the Giro, provide him with decent backup, they would still have a great team for the Tour.

This I would like to see. Way more interesting then a Levi 4-peat@ToC.

 

[Publicus]

Ohhh... I can see why JB is having so much trouble picking two competitive squads.
I'm telling you it's a very demading task. I just spend a whole 5 minutes on this selection

RS's ToC squad:

Lance Armstrong
Levi Leipheimer
Janez Brajkovic
Gregory Rast
Yaroslav Popovych
Jose Luis Rubiera
Daryl Impey
Thomas Vaitkus

RS's Giro squad:

Andreas Klöden
Chris Horner
Jason McCartney
Haimar Zubeldia
Gert Steegmans
Sergio Paulinho
Dmitriy Muravyev
Markel Irizar
Sebastien Rosseler

Boy I'm glad I'm not in his shoes.....

Actually both very decent line ups. Levi could win the ToC and Kloden could have a decent shot at the Giro. Will never happen though (which is sad).

 

[Oldman]

Actually both very decent line ups. Levi could win the ToC and Kloden could have a decent shot at the Giro. Will never happen though (which is sad).

Except they need Horner in California. Noone else knows where the rides go; especially if the radios don't work.

 

[Bike Boy]

Actually both very decent line ups. Levi could win the ToC and Kloden could have a decent shot at the Giro. Will never happen though (which is sad).

Couldn't agree more. Very sad indeed, not just for Klöden but also for Steegmans. Train or no train, it's a golden opportunity wasted.
being a new team, RS could benefit tremendously by taking one or two stages in the giro.

And what about the riders? do they even no what they are training for? (obviously refering to the part of the squad not participating in the ToC or the tour) very mysterious.

JB can't be this stupid, it's just not possible, for some reason he's playing this one close his chest. I wonder what he's up to

 

[craig1985]

Ohhh... I can see why JB is having so much trouble picking two competitive squads.
I'm telling you it's a very demading task. I just spend a whole 5 minutes on this selection

RS's ToC squad:

Lance Armstrong
Levi Leipheimer
Janez Brajkovic
Gregory Rast
Yaroslav Popovych
Jose Luis Rubiera
Daryl Impey
Thomas Vaitkus

RS's Giro squad:

Andreas Klöden
Chris Horner
Jason McCartney
Haimar Zubeldia
Gert Steegmans
Sergio Paulinho
Dmitriy Muravyev
Markel Irizar
Sebastien Rosseler

Boy I'm glad I'm not in his shoes.....

That would be a solid team for the TTT. I posted my RS Giro squad on the first page.

 

[auscyclefan94]

From an article today:



http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/2928/Vinokourov-confirms-schedule-names-Tirreno-Adriatico-and-Liege.aspx

Thanks
It's odd because vino has said that the route does suit him and his ultimate goal is top 3.

 

[Publicus]

Except they need Horner in California. Noone else knows where the rides go; especially if the radios don't work.

Swap Horner and Popo.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Now you're just being pompous a$$.

"intelligent debate over the Giro" a little smug aren't you?

Lance wasn't the first and won't be the last to have a "ridiculous obession" with the TdF.

Ah crap, never mind, it's just too easy.

 

[Carboncrank]

Which would you rather be a winner of the Tour of California or a winner of the Giro d'Italia? I know what my answer would be....

Get this idea that trying the Tour/Giro double is what makes sense for most teams. It's not. Schleck won't be doing it. Alberto won't be doing it.

And the fact that Bruyneel has won 9 out of the 12 TdF since 1998 is not dispositive of anything other than they won 9 of the 12. It's what you do if your singular strategy is to win the TdF. Your answer presupposes that everyone has that same strategy.

Or that wanting to win the Giro/Vuelta or TdF/Vuelta or Giro/TdF is not a plausible strategy. Or winning during every phase of the year (Early stage races, classics, GT, post-GT races).

It presupposes no such thing. Teams are free to use their own stratagy. In all of the 12 years since the last time it was done, anyone that tried failed. That is what it means when Johann's stratagy won. If at any time during those years, the double would have been a superior approach they would have won. Winning is how you measure who's approach was best.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Get this idea that trying the Tour/Giro double is what makes sense for most teams. It's not. Schleck won't be doing it. Alberto won't be doing it.

See this is where you could be (rightfully) accused of twisting things around. Nobody was suggesting that Lance should go for the double. However what we have here is a team that was gifted a Pro Tour license that can't even scrape together a competitive team for the second biggest race of the year.
Both Astana and Saxo will send competetive teams to the Giro and to the Tour (and to TOC too?) so why can't Radio Shack?

 

[Publicus]

Get this idea that trying the Tour/Giro double is what makes sense for most teams. It's not. Schleck won't be doing it. Alberto won't be doing it.


It presupposes no such thing. Teams are free to use their own stratagy. In all of the 12 years since the last time it was done, anyone that tried failed. That is what it means when Johann's stratagy won. If at any time during those years, the double would have been a superior approach they would have won. Winning is how you measure who's approach was best.

You got me. No one has won the Giro/Tour double since 1999 because Johan had a superior strategy since 1999. It didn't have anything to do with the fact that most years the Giro winner simply not racing at the Tour de France. It was Johan's strategery!

Trust me when I say this is not personal. Really, there are resources out there that can help address your situation. The first step is acknowledging you have a problem.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Get this idea that trying the Tour/Giro double is what makes sense for most teams. It's not. Schleck won't be doing it. Alberto won't be doing it.
It presupposes no such thing. Teams are free to use their own stratagy. In all of the 12 years since the last time it was done, anyone that tried failed. That is what it means when Johann's stratagy won. If at any time during those years, the double would have been a superior approach they would have won. Winning is how you measure who's approach was best.

Riding few races and the Tour as the only GT, is not so much a strategy, but the programme that brought Armstrong his year's of unbroken success. No doubt it worked for him and others now see it as a blueprint for Tour success.

However your second paragraph doesn't fly, since Lance had a lock on the Tour and only one rider won a GT and went to a Tour to contend, during this period.

You seem to be saying you don't think Lance could have defended his tour title and won a Giro, in the same year
I think Lance could definitely have "doubled", in 2002, given the entry levels of the respective races.

When it comes down to it, you seem to lack confidence in your idol's ability.

 

[craig1985]

LA said he could never won the Giro and Tour in the same season, so does that make him inferior to Hinault, Indurain etc.?

 

[Mellow Velo]

LA said he could never won the Giro and Tour in the same season, so does that make him inferior to Hinault, Indurain etc.?

Results speak for themselves. You can't argue anything else......well, not unless your usename is Carboncrank, you can't.

 

[Anonymous]

Fellas, CC is merely worthy of "ignore" and nothing more. I keep having to read his inane, moronic pontifications about the One Balled Wonder in your posts, and I have to say that he brings even less to the table than do most Uniballer fans. His analysis is beyond stupid, his defensiveness is ridiculous, and his drooling fantasies about Lance are homoerotic. What we have here is a first class troll and nothing more.

 

[BroDeal]

Fellas, CC is merely worthy of "ignore" and nothing more. I keep having to read his inane, moronic pontifications about the One Balled Wonder in your posts, and I have to say that he brings even less to the table than do most Uniballer fans. His analysis is beyond stupid, his defensiveness is ridiculous, and his drooling fantasies about Lance are homoerotic. What we have here is a first class troll and nothing more.

CC is the one who is rating all the Armstrong threads as one star. You can see the rating go to one start the first time he posts to a thread.

You can also rate a thread that has existed for a while at five stars and the rating will go to three stars, indicating that here was only one "one star" rating. I did this to a a bunch of Armstrong threads the other day. Shortly afterward the threads all dropped to two stars, which tells me that CC probably is posting with two or more different accounts.

 

[Carboncrank]

CC is the one who is rating all the Armstrong threads as one star. You can see the rating go to one start the first time he posts to a thread.

You can also rate a thread that has existed for a while at five stars and the rating will go to three stars, indicating that here was only one "one star" rating. I did this to a a bunch of Armstrong threads the other day. Shortly afterward the threads all dropped to two stars, which tells me that CC probably is posting with two or more different accounts.

I've never star rated any thread. I don't even know what that's for.

You want to explain it to me?

I actually agree that's there's too many Lance. I thought they were going to start merging them.

 

[ravens]

Maybe we should try to think of Tour winners who only have won the Tour without winning any other GTs.

Floyd/Pereiro
Sastre-but regularly rides 2 GTs
Riis
LeMond-but came close in Giros and competed in Paris-Roubaix regularly

Before that, we are going back to the 70s now so my memory is being stretched

Zootomelk, Thevenet!!! help needed now please.

So obviously lots of guys in the last 30 years who only focused on the Tour.

I think a more realistic look is to see who competes in more than one tour per year rather than who wins. There can only be one winner, but ranking high on gc in more than one in the same year shows something, too, doesn't it?

 

[ravens]

What we have here is a first class troll and nothing more.

he never comes to the troll meetings.

He was assigned snack detail at the last one. he owes me a juice pouch and some goldfish.

 

[mr. tibbs]

he never comes to the troll meetings.

He was assigned snack detail at the last one. he owes me a juice pouch and some goldfish.

Lol'd HARD.

I personally think it's a shame that RS won't be in Italy--I think a Kloden V Vino race would be pretty cool (if that's how both teams decided to play their cards). If nothing else, the TTs would be spectacular.

This wish is based on nothing but speculation--I have no idea what Astana is planning RE the Giro. But I think it would be an interesting match-up. We certainly won't ever see those two square off as captains at the Tour.

 

[Publicus]

he never comes to the troll meetings.

He was assigned snack detail at the last one. he owes me a juice pouch and some goldfish.

LOL. Thank you sir for that laugh.