Radio Shack might skip the Giro d'Italia

[auscyclefan94]

I do wonder what would have happened if Lance hadn't gotten injured.

It felt like he really was gearing his training toward the Giro prior to breaking his collarbone. After that, he couldn't get ready to be in race shape for the Giro.

I don't know if he would have gone all out for the Giro and assisted in the Tour, done the Giro/Vuelta double or what... but I do think he was really thinking he was going to win the Giro prior to the accident.

Though the crash did help his form with the tour. It delayed his preparations!

 

[pmcg76]

Where were those guys at age 38?

Let me answer that for you. Out of cycling for many years.

Merxkx finished 6th in his last tour at age 32 after a light racing schedule focusing completely on the tour.

Hinault finished second at age 32, then retired.

Coppi last tour podium was a win at age 32. He wasn't competitive past 35. But that must have been all those broken bones and his treatment in those awful British POW camps right?

Who are you kidding? There's nothing Lance could do that would earn your respect. If he wins this year you'll just claim he was doping or some other lame internet crank conspiracy.

You're already setting it up. If he wins it won't matter because he didn't do enough of the classics, or because he went the the tour of CA instead of the Giro.

I would bet that I had respect for Armstrong when you didnt have a clue who he was.

If you really knew Armstrong, you would know that he never planned to compete past 30. His bout with cancer changed that, if he hadnt started winning the Tour in 99, I gurantee he would have quit a few years later.

You are right on one thing, I will never have the respect for Lance that I once had but I still would liked to have seen what he could do in other races and making his team from focuing on one race.

Perhaps you can explain just why Lance doesnt want to try to win other races or are they just not important.

 

[Carboncrank]

I may well be rediculous, whatever that means, but I'm certainly not ridiculous.
Shack have 8 Grand Tour "specialists", but can't risk a couple at the Giro?

Anyhow, now I'm glad they moved the Cali date, too.
It now means we won't have your good self, Speedway, Flicker, Polish etc, mangling intelligent debate over the Giro.
Watching Cali, typing love letters in the relevant threads here and masturbating over when your old guy is on screen, will take all your gang's concentration.

Now you're just being pompous a$$.

"intelligent debate over the Giro" a little smug aren't you?

Lance wasn't the first and won't be the last to have a "ridiculous obession" with the TdF.

 

[Carboncrank]

Perhaps you can explain just why Lance doesnt want to try to win other races or are they just not important.

You're asking why doesn't he race the races you think are important instead of the ones that he and Bruyneel think are important.

See? put that way it answers itself.

 

[issoisso]

You're asking why doesn't he race the races you think are important instead of the ones that he and Bruyneel think are important.

See? put that way it answers itself.

You're mistaking plural with singular

 

[pmcg76]

You're asking why doesn't he race the races you think are important instead of the ones that he and Bruyneel think are important.

See? put that way it answers itself.

Wow, you are getting this. We as cycling fans would like to see people spread their focus on races other than the Tour especially if they have won it 7 times already and have nothing to prove anymore. For us cycling is more than the Tour, maybe not for Lance and Bruyneel, hence why they dont get my respect as their approach belittles the other races as they are not considered important or relevant.

We hear about all the attention that Lance brings to cycling but he only brings attention to himself, the Tour and the people who are his competitors at the race. Would be interesting to know how many Lance fans know who finished 2nd at the Tour this year.

There is also the fact that they make their very talented team focus on the same one event in order to help Lance win that one race when they could be shooting for victories in other top races.

What is your own opinion. Is the Tour the only race that matters or do other races have any significance. Dont try to bat it of as Lance/Bruyneels choice in what they do. I want to know your personal opinion.

 

[Carboncrank]

Because they did not focus on just one race per year. So specialization has allowed Lance to enjoy an extended career, but the depth and breath of experience of the greats cannot be challenged because they were not able to compete at a high level past 35. My guess is Lance would have been used up before he turned 35 if he followed in their footsteps (which isn't a knock on him).

I take your point, AND... Lance has raced more last year and looks like he'll race more this year than he did in most of the TdF championship years.

The Giro is important to both Levi and Radio Shack. And it's a better tune up for the Tdf than the Giro.

Has Astana said they are sending Alberto?

 

[ravens]

I take your point, AND... Lance has raced more last year and looks like he'll race more this year than he did in most of the TdF championship years.

The Giro is important to both Levi and Radio Shack. And it's a better tune up for the Tdf than the Giro.

Has Astana said they are sending Alberto?

I don't think he races those due to their nearness to the tour. The claim is allergies, don't know if that is really the case or not.

Here's a good trivia question for those with greater depth of historical knowledge than me. When is the last time the tdf winner won the giro in the same year? (I am assuming the giro has been that close to the tdf for many many years, if not, then when is the last time a TDF winner won a stage race that close to the tour?)

I know I could look this up, I am more interested to see if anyone knows it straight off the top of their head. Can you do it without research?

 

[issoisso]

I don't think he races those due to their nearness to the tour. The claim is allergies, don't know if that is really the case or not.

Here's a good trivia question for those with greater depth of historical knowledge than me. When is the last time the tdf winner won the giro in the same year? (I am assuming the giro has been that close to the tdf for many many years, if not, then when is the last time a TDF winner won a stage race that close to the tour?)

I know I could look this up, I am more interested to see if anyone knows it straight off the top of their head. Can you do it without research?

Giro-Tour double? Pantani in 98. But only because Ullrich screwed up his training for the Tour, thus blowing up and losing 9 minutes in a single stage (otherwise Pantani would've been 2nd) and because Festina screwed up Zülle's doping programme when he was dominating Pantani at the Giro (otherwise Pantani would've also been 2nd), making Zülle's muscles atrophy, causing him to lose hours (literally) in the last two mountain stages when he was comfortably leading (read: beating Pantani even in the mountains, not to speak of the time trials)

The last time it was done on sheer merit was Induráin in 93

 

[Mellow Velo]

Marco Pantani in 1998. Before that, Miguel Indurain, in '92 and '93, I think.
Nothing since.....I wonder why.

I keep wondering what the differences is between 7 and 8 and the answer keeps coming back nothing, except you can't use "magnificent", with 8.

Then, when you wonder about how carefully scripted the return was, the number really doesn't matter. It's all about race recognition and a bio that Hollywood couldn't come up with.

 

[Publicus]

I take your point, AND... Lance has raced more last year and looks like he'll race more this year than he did in most of the TdF championship years.

The Giro is important to both Levi and Radio Shack. And it's a better tune up for the Tdf than the Giro.

Has Astana said they are sending Alberto?

No--Vino is riding the Giro. Alberto is contemplating riding the Vuelta though.

And I assume you meant the Tour of California is important to Levi and Team Lance. I would think it would be a bigger deal to win the Giro than the Tour of California, which is NOT a better tune up for the TdF.

 

[pmcg76]

Maybe we should try to think of Tour winners who only have won the Tour without winning any other GTs.

Floyd/Pereiro
Sastre-but regularly rides 2 GTs
Riis
LeMond-but came close in Giros and competed in Paris-Roubaix regularly

Before that, we are going back to the 70s now so my memory is being stretched

Zootomelk, Thevenet!!! help needed now please.

So obviously lots of guys in the last 30 years who only focused on the Tour.

 

[Carboncrank]

Wow, you are getting this. We as cycling fans would like to see people spread their focus on races other than the Tour especially if they have won it 7 times already and have nothing to prove anymore. For us cycling is more than the Tour, maybe not for Lance and Bruyneel, hence why they dont get my respect as their approach belittles the other races as they are not considered important or relevant.

We hear about all the attention that Lance brings to cycling but he only brings attention to himself, the Tour and the people who are his competitors at the race. Would be interesting to know how many Lance fans know who finished 2nd at the Tour this year.

There is also the fact that they make their very talented team focus on the same one event in order to help Lance win that one race when they could be shooting for victories in other top races.



What is your own opinion. Is the Tour the only race that matters or do other races have any significance. Dont try to bat it of as Lance/Bruyneels choice in what they do. I want to know your personal opinion.

As a race fan you must know that the kind of team you put together to rider the TdF would be different than a team you would put together to win a whole host of smaller stage races or one day races.

Johann has succeeded promoting a formula built around climbers who can time trial. That formula would work just as well in the Vuelta and Giro but, given the extreme nature of these races it's a risky venture to try and win more than one of them in a year. I have no doubt Lance could have won as many Giro's or Vuelta's if they had been deemed most important. They are not.

Roger Penske's drive to win the Indianapolis 500 is much the same thing.

One year he conspired in secret with Illmore Engineering to develop an idea he had for an engine. It was radical, it was expensive and it was kept secret. The concept had been tried by others, but failed. He showed up with it in May and nobody had the slightest idea what he'd been up too. It worked, it was fast out of the box and he dominated qualifying and the race. He sold the naming rights to Mercedes Benz. If it had failed it would have cost hims many millions.

That's how it is in most all kinds of racing. If you want to succeed, you have to win the most important race. From ice skating to racing yachts it's the same.

 

[auscyclefan94]

No--Vino is riding the Giro. Alberto is contemplating riding the Vuelta though.

And I assume you meant the Tour of California is important to Levi and Team Lance. I would think it would be a bigger deal to win the Giro than the Tour of California, which is NOT a better tune up for the TdF.

Didn't Vino say his goal was top 3 at the Giro? Something along those lines...

 

[Carboncrank]

Except Lance has nothing to prove at the Tour and Contador has already won the Giro/Vuelta as well as other races early in the season like Basque Country and Paris-Nice. I think there is also a good chance of Alberto doing the Vuelta this year.

The original point was when Lance came back, he had nothing to prove at the Tour and could have tried to aim for some other races to beef up his palmares and bring attention to other areas of the sport, which is what his fans say is the biggest benefit of his comeback.

He won the Giro and Vuelta because he didn't race the TdF that year.
He's never raced the Giro or the Vuelta in the same year he rode the tour.
Early in his career Lance won some spring races too.

I don't know what you mean about some original point being he had nothing to prove at the TdF. He had a huge thing to prove at the tour. He was trying to prove he could rider under the most rigorous doping testing in the history of the sport and compete and that his previous wins were not fluke.
And he wanted to prove to his kids that could see him day in and day out that the things the internet cranks have been saying about him are not true.

I think he did that.

 

[issoisso]

Maybe we should try to think of Tour winners who only have won the Tour without winning any other GTs.

Floyd/Pereiro
Sastre-but regularly rides 2 GTs
Riis
LeMond-but came close in Giros and competed in Paris-Roubaix regularly

Before that, we are going back to the 70s now so my memory is being stretched

Zootomelk, Thevenet!!! help needed now please.

So obviously lots of guys in the last 30 years who only focused on the Tour.

Not a single one of those only rode the Tour and didn't give a crap about the Giro or the Vuelta

 

[pmcg76]

As a race fan you must know that the kind of team you put together to rider the TdF would be different than a team you would put together to win a whole host of smaller stage races or one day races.

Johann has succeeded promoting a formula built around climbers who can time trial. That formula would work just as well in the Vuelta and Giro but, given the extreme nature of these races it's a risky venture to try and win more than one of them in a year. I have no doubt Lance could have won as many Giro's or Vuelta's if they had been deemed most important. They are not.

Roger Penske's drive to win the Indianapolis 500 is much the same thing.

One year he conspired in secret with Illmore Engineering to develop an idea he had for an engine. It was radical, it was expensive and it was kept secret. The concept had been tried by others, but failed. He showed up with it in May and nobody had the slightest idea what he'd been up too. It worked, it was fast out of the box and he dominated qualifying and the race. He sold the naming rights to Mercedes Benz. If it had failed it would have cost hims many millions.

That's how it is in most all kinds of racing. If you want to succeed, you have to win the most important race. From ice skating to racing yachts it's the same.

You didnt really answer my question or are you saying everything is irrelevant in comparison to the Tour. When you have won a race 7 times, is it really that necessary to win it again when there are other worthy races missing from your palmares that all the other greats have won. I couldnt give a crap about the Indy 500, totally different sport if even that.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Didn't Vino say his goal was top 3 at the Giro? Something along those lines...

.......................

"I will start the Giro for the first time, without pressure; [I'll take it] step-by-step. If I have good condition and motivation then maybe I can arrive on the podium. There is not a long time trial, which would suit me.

 

[Carboncrank]

No--Vino is riding the Giro. Alberto is contemplating riding the Vuelta though.

And I assume you meant the Tour of California is important to Levi and Team Lance. I would think it would be a bigger deal to win the Giro than the Tour of California, which is NOT a better tune up for the TdF.

I think it is a better tune up. Hard, even more so this year, but not Grand Tour hard. We differ. The Giro/TdF double is rare. 12 times in 61 years.

The fact that Bruyneel's teams have won 9 of the 12 times since the last time it was done just proves his way correct.

 

[pmcg76]

He won the Giro and Vuelta because he didn't race the TdF that year.
He's never raced the Giro or the Vuelta in the same year he rode the tour.
Early in his career Lance won some spring races too.

I don't know what you mean about some original point being he had nothing to prove at the TdF. He had a huge thing to prove at the tour. He was trying to prove he could rider under the most rigorous doping testing in the history of the sport and compete and that his previous wins were not fluke.
And he wanted to prove to his kids that could see him day in and day out that the things the internet cranks have been saying about him are not true.

I think he did that.

He deinitely failed on that one because we all say he is a major *** and he proved that this year more than ever. I think Alberto is riding the Vulta this year and he is still only 26 so a long way to go yet.

Armstrong pre and post cancer are not the same riders at all so no relevant comparison. He only became a Tour conender post cancer. Face it, no other rider has ever been so obsessed or as solely focused on winning the Tour as Lance.

No, there was one other.....Richard Virenque and well, if you know Virenque, no explanations needed.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I thought the comeback was about raising cancer awareness, geez it changes all the time, which is it?

 

[Carboncrank]

You didnt really answer my question or are you saying everything is irrelevant in comparison to the Tour. When you have won a race 7 times, is it really that necessary to win it again when there are other worthy races missing from your palmares that all the other greats have won. I couldnt give a crap about the Indy 500, totally different sport if even that.

If it wasn't for the contravercy surrounding Lances run you might have a point that he had nothing left to prove. He made a point that needed to be made.

I like racing period. If cycling is the only kind of racing you like that's find but I think the importance of the big race applies.

If you want to put it that way; "irrelevant in comparison" then, frankly, yes they are. I love to watch them but I don't expect the guy that wins on the cobbles to be the guy who wins the TdF and I don't expect experienced professionals to not have priorities. I don't expect Alberto is going to take chances that are going to hurt his TdF chances either.

Notice, Alberto is no coming to the Giro either. Nor are the Schlecks.

 

[Polish]

None of last year's TdF Podium are riding the Giro in the run-up to the TdF.

Two are riding the Amgen Tour of California and one is resting.

 

[Publicus]

Didn't Vino say his goal was top 3 at the Giro? Something along those lines...

No. He's going for stage wins and to get in shape for the Tour.

 

[pmcg76]

If it wasn't for the contravercy surrounding Lances run you might have a point that he had nothing left to prove. He made a point that needed to be made.

I like racing period. If cycling is the only kind of racing you like that's find but I think the importance of the big race applies.

If you want to put it that way; "irrelevant in comparison" then, frankly, yes they are. I love to watch them but I don't expect the guy that wins on the cobbles to be the guy who wins the TdF and I don't expect experienced professionals to not have priorities. I don't expect Alberto is going to take chances that are going to hurt his TdF chances either.

Notice, Alberto is no coming to the Giro either. Nor are the Schlecks.

Andy Schleck won Liege-Bastogne-Liege last year and Frank has also won classics whilst also focusing on the Tour. This is not just about the Giro or just Lance, its about why RadioShack are not sending a decent team if any to the Giro and why Lance and his team focus solely on the Tour when they have the riders and capacities to win other major races. They do not need 8 good GC riders. If they let Levi shoot for the Giro, provide him with decent backup, they would still have a great team for the Tour.

 

[Race Radio]

He was trying to prove he could rider under the most rigorous doping testing in the history of the sport and compete and that his previous wins were not fluke.

You mean the Catlin program? How rigorous was that?