Radios are gone?

[ladyvader]

I can't wait to see the fit LA and JB are going to have over this. All of Lance's TdF wins he used a radio, does Lance know how to race now days without one? It seemed to me that Astana was the biggest complainer over the ban of radios for the one stage.

 

[derailleur]

I say let them do all the doping they want because they are obviously still doing it.

That'd be fine, if it wasn't cheating.

If the drugs the sport allows are legal, and it allows them explicitly so all the riders know they can have the same drug-induced advantage, and the sport informs the fans that the drugs are available and permitted, then there's no real reason not to.

What's wrong is that some riders are gaining an unfair advantage by taking banned or illegal drugs, and the sport is apparently colluding or negligent in admitting that it's going on. The riders cheat each other and the sport cheats the fans.

Legal and admitted = okay. Illegal, unfair, or covered up = bad.

Radios are legal, fair, and in the open. They advanced team tactics in the sport. We've gotten used to those tactics so we think the sport is stagnated. Find something else legal, fair, and in the open to improve the sport. Like lighter bikes, new routes, more cobbles, maybe a dirt road or a river crossing.

Attempting to turn back technology is just going to result in a strike by the riders, a reversal of the ruling, and yet another embarassment to the UCI.

 

[rgmerk]

I have to say I think it's a great idea.

While I doubt it's going to completely turn things upside down, surely it will make it much harder to schedule the catch so precisely. As such, the sprinters' teams might just be a bit more conservative and catch earlier, leaving more opportunity for more attacks towards the end of stages.

In any case, it's hard to see how it could make racing radically worse.

Another advantage of banning radios is cost. Does anybody have numbers on how much a full set of radios - including a couple of backups - cost to buy? Not a big deal for a ProTour team, but for small-scale pro events there goes a fair chunk of the sponsorship.

After watching some in-car footage of the Silence-Lotto DS following Cadel around in the Vuelta TT, frankly, if I were a rider I'd be overjoyed if the radios went. Having somebody in my ear yelling "go go go" for an hour would only result in me tossing the damn thing into the crowd...

 

[Anonymous]

All of Lance's TdF wins he used a radio, does Lance know how to race now days without one?

From a Cyclingnews article from 2002(?) about pros and cons of race radios:
(http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=toradioornottoradio)

Interesting read on LA and his radio in 2001, I believe in the Alpes...

"Speaking of Lance, one particular instance of a dodgy race radio never stopped LA from using his grey matter, as demonstrated by his game of poker during stage 10 of last year's TDF that finished at L'Alpe d'Huez:

LA's radio never worked the whole day, and so "the plan [to bluff] was born on the road, since we know that they [the other teams] are all watching on TV anyway - so we decided to bluff" said Armstrong after his coup de poker.

Now hands up how many LA fans thought their man was in trouble before the Alpe - higher please. And FYI - Team Telekom's radios were working just fine, which goes to show that at the end of the day, the war is still fought out on the road, not in the confines of the team car.

When Miguel Indurain's critics labelled his success in the Tour de France as boring, it wasn't due to the race radio. It was his ability as a freak cyclist. The variation in natural ability, preparation, weather conditions, ability to recover, luck and human nature will continue to produce exciting, unpredictable and sometimes spontaneous bike racing. Just don't let the young-uns get hold of these walkie-talkies too early in their cycling career."

 

[md2020]

Hopefully Taylor Phinney won't shrivel up without Axels' "husky sexy Belgian" accent to comfort him.

I believe radios were banned in U23 races last year. In that case, Phinney already has more experience riding and winning without radios than most older pros.

 

[Anonymous]

i dont see it will make a blind bit of difference, teams will still convey instructions and tactics to riders via one way radios..

the only difference is riders wont be able to convey how they feel etc, or call for help when they puncture...

they will find a way around it.. i very much doubt it will change racing in any shape or form..

 

[TheDude]

This is so NOT going to end up being implemented. I'm not saying it shouldn't be, but time has moved on. We have quick-release hubs so that when a rider has to flip his rear wheel from the small to large cog, it is easier... errr, that was replaced by a derailur wasn't it, now the rider just has to reach back and release the tension on the hub while shifting the chain over with another lever, err... Someday they will find a better material than wood for rims.

 

[usedtobefast]

This is so NOT going to end up being implemented. I'm not saying it shouldn't be, but time has moved on. We have quick-release hubs so that when a rider has to flip his rear wheel from the small to large cog, it is easier... errr, that was replaced by a derailur wasn't it, now the rider just has to reach back and release the tension on the hub while shifting the chain over with another lever, err... Someday they will find a better material than wood for rims.

there is no timetable for the radio ban. translation, not going to happen.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I'm very glad
more unpredicatble racing here we come

 

[craig1985]

I see it as no different to a football (sorry, soccer) manager standing on the sideline yelling a myriad of instructions in several languages.

 

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[Alpe d'Huez]

Everyone knows how I stand on this (with RR) but reading the article, it seems the emperor has no clothes. No date is set, and unless I'm misunderstanding it, directors and cars will still know time splits, and still be able to relay data to riders, thinking for them and making all their decisions, which is what the biggest issue is. As DIM says, they've got it backwards.

We all, also know the UCI has no balls. So it's quite possible that the riders and teams will whine and snivel so much that the UCI will cave, and only make a very minor rule change, while declaring the problem solved.

 

[craig1985]

I don't care either way, but if we are going to do it, I would like to start off with stage and one-day races in the PT and then move onto the big classics and GT's and I think the Vuelta could be a good start.

I'm not sure how much of a difference RR would make in a race like Paris-Roubaix, because if you get a flat, you're screwed anyway, unless you can get a quick wheel change from your team (I'm not sure if the practice of fans standing by the road with their wheels to pass on to a rider who has got a flat, still happens) car or mechanic standing by the side of the ride.

 

[elapid]

It's the engine that makes you faster or better than the next guy on any given day.

Race radios should stay put because it still takes a rider's ability to win. And when the poop hits the fan the good riders will still use their best judgement and make tactical decisions themselves. Just ask AC in this year's Tour.

But this is really the crux of the radio debate: its not the engine that necessarily wins the race, but rather the rider with the tactical knowledge and ability to read the race and conditions AND the engine. Right now it is more often than not the rider with the bigger engine winning the race. Without race radios, there is the potential for an additional dimension to racing that is currently missing.

You correctly point out the importance of tactical intelligence with Armstrong and Contador at this year's TdF. Another example is Leipheimer being lost and not knowing what to do in this year's ToC when bad weather knocked out radio contact and Mancebo was out front. This was much more exciting racing and showed the importance of tactical knowledge in the outcome of a race, a knowledge which is neutralized by race radios.

However, race radios have not been banned, just two-way radios. So I am not sure how much the current situation would change anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

After reading some of the arguments for an RR ban I do see your point and how it can change the "the game". And it would be interesting to watch. But I still don't agree 100%. Unfortuantely, some others brought up the point that they'll still have one way radios and the ban has no timetable as to it's possible implementation. So with the teams still having one way radios I don't see too much changing.

Get rid of radios altogether and then you'll have some fireworks. But it'd be interesting to see how creative teams would get to relay info to their riders. Domestiques will have to work a lot harder going back and forth.

I don't think anyone's holding their breathe on this though.

 

[Wrecktangle]

No radios for AC & LA in TdF?

...evens it up even more.

AC on a poorer team with his own decisioning? Lance'll lock this one up.

Bryneel has not thought this one through...yet. I predict he'll change his mind.

 

[flicker]

Get real

A lot of pros are so tacticly in-ept and are unable to communicate with their team riders that they would most likely fall over without race radios.
So many cyclists: many are automotons. That includes pros, amatuers,club riders and civilians i.e. the general public. So many cyclists are oblivious to what is going on around them. A scary example for our children.
I see it when I ride and when I watch PRO riding on TV.
Check out LANCE talking to his vest! Maybe they need training wheels also?

 

[Ripper]

Well, I got myself all excited until I learned that it was the 2-way radio thing, and we can still get the DS with the calculator figuring things out

...

I'm not sure where you stand. Are you saying you think banning the 2-ways is 'going backwards', or that banning any radio communication is the wrong thing to do? Your earlier comments about it being analogous to banning tech improvements to the bicycle are just plain incorrect.

 

[Ripper]

...

Flicker .. I agree with your post very strongly! Especially

A lot of pros are so tacticly in-ept and are unable to communicate with their team riders that they would most likely fall over without race radios.

I see it in Cat 1-2 races (no pro riders). Some teams have radios, some not. Racing development is more than just doing intervals and being fast. It is also being smart and racing tactically. Horner at ToC would be a more obvious example, but there are other pros who likely have great race smarts just waiting to be used

 

[Oldman]

Flicker .. I agree with your post very strongly! Especially

I see it in Cat 1-2 races (no pro riders). Some teams have radios, some not. Racing development is more than just doing intervals and being fast. It is also being smart and racing tactically. Horner at ToC would be a more obvious example, but there are other pros who likely have great race smarts just waiting to be used

No doubt about it; you need to learn tactic. A local joke in our area is an entire miked up team that constantly gets blown out of the action. The radio chatter must be: "breaker breaker-this is Main Sprinter. Where's my lead out guy?" response: "off the back with you, dude." The local officials were going to have them disconnect the radios at a local Pro 1,2 Crit. The rest of teams actually begged the officials to let them leave it on for entertainment value.

 

[oldguy]

get rid of them!

This is a weak argument for radios as they do nothing to make a rider faster like wheels, frames, etc.

Radios were a step backward in the sport. They allowed the riders to be nothing more then engines with the DS calling all the shots.

Banning radios is a step forward for the sport.

These radios don't make for good racing. It's time for them to go!

 

[595RED]

Hear Hear, get rid of them, they scream of the DS missing his days in the peloton and blurting out tall orders he would never been able to follow when he was on two wheels instead of 4

 

[POLAND RULES]

It's about time! Who's not sick of breakaway's getting caught in the final kilometer? Technology isn't always a good thing.

 

[VeloFidelis]

What an interesting dichotomy: we all revel in the latest technology as cyclists, but believe as fans that we have both the wisdom, and the right to be selective about where it is applied. I suggest that anyone who thinks this is a good idea go back to using dial up internet for a week for a better understanding of the folly here. Technology does not retreat.

My prediction: The riders, and teams will call bullsh!t and the fight will be on. I don't think either will go quietly into that dark night... nor should they. All this speculation that racing will return to some semblance of it's former self is pretty silly.

What are they going to take away next when this doesn't work?... clipless pedals, or indexed shifting?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Hear Hear, get rid of them, they scream of the DS missing his days in the peloton and blurting out tall orders he would never been able to follow when he was on two wheels instead of 4

An interesting point, and I think a valid statement.

Keep in mind though, this new rule (with no date to implement) won't change this one bit.

It's about time! Who's not sick of breakaway's getting caught in the final kilometer? Technology isn't always a good thing.

Agree on breakaways. That's one of the big things.

Hard to say where the line should be drawn on technology. Should they also allow fairings? Windbreaks? specialized gearing? Helium balloons? Doping with one's own blood?

I just think if they are going to not change radios, they should alter the course designs of all races, especially GTs, making it much more mountainous and difficult. As is today, even the biggest mountains like Angliru and Zoncolon only see splits of seconds. What we're seeing now are stage after stage where GC riders all end up bunched together until the last 5km or so, where the watch each other. Many crossing the finish line fairly well rested, not having to attack anywhere on the course. And part of that is because the director in the car knew where everyone was on the course at all times, and exactly how much energy to conserve, and when to attack or counter.