Radioshack Fail

[Parrot23]

Maybe the organisers were concerned that the Radioshack bus might break down on a back road.

Ha, ha,

 

[peloton]

they have right not to invite the team ,but with that explanation? seriously?

Has Unipublic actually given publicly any explanation why the shafted The Shack?

All we have is RadioShack people saying that the team was too weak, I don't buy that for a second, more spin as usual.

I would think the ongoing dope investigations have everything to do with it...

 

[Mambo95]

Without Vuelta, can RS still get enough points to go to next year's Tour?

They've probably got enough points already. The Top 17 teams qualify automatically. Last year the 17th team got 206 points. RS have 391 points for 2010 so far. Of course there's more competition this year, but 400 points should be easily enough for any team to make the top 17

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I would think the ongoing dope investigations have everything to do with it...

This is Spain. Since when has being under investigation for doping been a problem there?

 

[eleven]

One rider maybe. LL and Kloden will be worn out from trying to get Armstrong into the top 10 of the Tour. Deserved.

And who on Sky will not be worn out from trying to get Wiggo into the top 10 of the tour?

What is pathetic is the whining of a team that makes it clear that they only have one leader and one goal, and every other race can just deal with the fact that they will be using their race a training, or in the case of those races after the Tour, using it go get more air time from commentators mentioning Armstrong even though he may or may not be in the race.

So, instead of bringing the most talented riders and the best-equipped teams to Spain, we bring underperforming teams who...well...send their top talent because that talent wasn't invited to France? OK then. I'm sure Xacobeo Galicia will provide stiff competition for the Sky B-team.

How much money do you think Unipublic left on the table?

 

[max_powers]

Vuelta TV ratings will likely suffer. Race shooting itself

 

[Barrus]

They've probably got enough points already. The Top 17 teams qualify automatically. Last year the 17th team got 206 points. RS have 391 points for 2010 so far. Of course there's more competition this year, but 400 points should be easily enough for any team to make the top 17

Is this new system only in place for the tour or not?

@ Max, why would the TV ratings suffer? No other one than LA is really a big crowd pleaser, especially in the US, the only place where RS inclusion would make a difference

 

[tiggertoo]

“I am not only surprised, I am speechless,” said Bruyneel. Who then went on to complain in a thousand words why he was upset that his team wasn't invited. Apparently Mr. Bruyneel doesn't know what 'speechless' means.

 

[Mambo95]

Is this new system only in place for the tour or not?

I think it's for all ranking races. I'm not 100% certain though.

 

[eleven]

Is this new system only in place for the tour or not?

@ Max, why would the TV ratings suffer? No other one than LA is really a big crowd pleaser, especially in the US, the only place where RS inclusion would make a difference

Well, the US is the largest television market in the world. Without RS in the race, it's very unlikely that Versus will cover it.

On the other hand, though the market is huge the portion of folks in that market that would watch even with RS is probably very low compared to Europe. Anyone know what kind of ratings the Vuelta gets in Europe?

 

[peloton]

This is Spain. Since when has being under investigation for doping been a problem there?

maybe because they are under federal investigations in 2 countries? Some serious sh!t there that even the Spaniards might not want to touch.

I'm certainly not buying the "weak team" nonsense.

 

[Anonymous]

And who on Sky will not be worn out from trying to get Wiggo into the top 10 of the tour?



So, instead of bringing the most talented riders and the best-equipped teams to Spain, we bring underperforming teams who...well...send their top talent because that talent wasn't invited to France? OK then. I'm sure Xacobeo Galicia will provide stiff competition for the Sky B-team.

How much money do you think Unipublic left on the table?

Subtract the appearance fee Shack was certainly demanding, probably not that much.

 

[Barrus]

Well, the US is the largest television market in the world. Without RS in the race, it's very unlikely that Versus will cover it.

On the other hand, though the market is huge the portion of folks in that market that would watch even with RS is probably very low compared to Europe. Anyone know what kind of ratings the Vuelta gets in Europe?

This is what I mean, what incentive does the Vuelta have in an audience in the US, most of their sponsors are European-based. Next even if RS would ride, without LA, how many of those watching the tour, mainly due to LA would watch the vuelta, these people are not cycling fans, nor even team radioshack fans, they are solely LA fans

 

[eleven]

Subtract the appearance fee Shack was certainly demanding, probably not that much.

How much was Shack paid to appear at the TDF?

Which is to say: RS was not demanding an appearance fee.

 

[Barrus]

How much was Shack paid to appear at the TDF?

Which is to say: RS was not demanding an appearance fee.

They were however for the Giro

BTW regarding my question just looked it up, it is for all three the big stage races, which ensures once again mainly protour teams will be in the running

 

[eleven]

They were however for the Giro

BTW just looked it up, it is for all three the big stage races, which ensures once again mainly protour teams will be in the running

I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying that they demanded an appearance fee (above and beyond the usual fees paid to teams by organizers) for the all three tours?

 

[Barrus]

I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying that they demanded an appearance fee (above and beyond the usual fees paid to teams by organizers) for the all three tours?

Oh no, the second part of the post is due to a question I asked on the last page, I shall edit that

The first part was however that they demanded an appearance fee, mainly due to the fact that Popo said that they didn't ride the giro due to a financial disagreement

 

[El Imbatido]

And who on Sky will not be worn out from trying to get Wiggo into the top 10 of the tour?

Sky have said from the start of the year that each rider on Sky will get one GT each. (with the obvious exception of Wiggins). Whilst this may seem a little arrogant considering they were not guaranteed spots in these GTs (much like RS). This comment actually tells the Vuelta orgainisers that they have a serious interest in riding the GT and that it is not just the backup plan in case Tour of California and Tour de France plans fall through. RS on the other hand were going merrily on their way spewing that Tour of Cal is 4 GT shit and nothing else matters. Great way to get in the organisers good books

So, instead of bringing the most talented riders and the best-equipped teams to Spain, we bring underperforming teams who...well...send their top talent because that talent wasn't invited to France? OK then. I'm sure Xacobeo Galicia will provide stiff competition for the Sky B-team.

How much money do you think Unipublic left on the table?

You do realise that Xacobeo-Galicia have had a top 5 contender in the past three Vueltas? Someone who has specifically trained for the Vuelta and made it their seasons goal and not a back up plan. You know that guy called Ezequiel Mosquera?

Something that alot of you Radioshed fanboys are also forgetting is that for some teams it is not about the GC. It is about hunting stages, or getting the points or KOM jersey. I'll take another stage hunting race animating team over another team with a possible top 10 position if they are not too tired from dragging other peoples arse's over Cols in July.

Also one last thing as someone else brought it up earlier in this thread IIRC. Why weren't you guys this vocal when Katusha wasn't in the Vuelta last year or when Footon wasn't in the TdF last year????????????

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Vuelta TV ratings will likely suffer. Race shooting itself

Well when it comes to ratings in North America, does the Vuelta even register a pulse?

Even in Europe, it seems to be the little sister of the gt's. Maybe I am wrong, but a lot of what I saw last year seemed very lightly attended. (Relative to other major races)

When the opposing lane of traffic (with a median separating riders from road vehicles) shows non-race vehicles (general vehicular traffic), it's a little sad.

How much more can ratings suffer without the greatest-team-to-ever-do-so-little being there? There's a reason why the Harlem Globetrotters don't play NBA teams.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Vuelta's main audience tends to be in Europe, and maybe in Latin America. They probably looked at the potential TV coverage in the US if Radioshack ride and Armstrong didn't, and took that into account. They also know that Lance, if he rode, wouldn't be in it to win it, and would demand an appearance fee (experience from Giro 2009). They know that if Lance didn't ride, there wouldn't be much of an improvement in the TV coverage in the US since most of that audience follows Lance, not the team or the sport. They know that the Shack is full of those people that screwed Alberto at the Tour 2009.

There needs to be some looking at the way teams are selected for different races. But it's funny that Johan had no problem whatsoever when he could go to any race he liked and it was only other people getting screwed.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well when it comes to ratings in North America, does the Vuelta even register a pulse?

Even in Europe, it seems to be the little sister of the gt's. Maybe I am wrong, but a lot of what I saw last year seemed very lightly attended.

When the opposing lane of traffic (with a median separating riders from road vehicles) shows non-race vehicles (general vehicular traffic), it's a little sad.

The Vuelta is very much the little sister of the GTs. It is the runt of the litter. It gets decent audiences, but the oppressive heat and rural nature of much of the territory it passes through is a minus point for attendance, plus cycling, despite the popularity of some successful riders, is not on the upswing in Spain. Lots of sponsors and races have withdrawn in the post-Puerto years, and even before that (Setmana Ciclista a Catalunya, anyone?). Javier Guillén has been pressured to shorten the race to two weeks. TV companies have said that they're not as willing to lay on more than the last hour-90 mins of coverage because there's much more bland landscape, especially in the stages in the south, than in the Giro and Tour, and there aren't as many fans, meaning the atmosphere never seems as good.

Because of these factors, Guillén and Unipublic are looking to energise the national fanbase. The Vuelta is much more Spanish than the Tour is French; with the demise of Spanish ProConti teams like Extremadura, Fuerteventura-Canarias and Relax-GAM in the recent past (plus Portuguese teams like Benfica and Milaneza-Maia [LA-MSS] who used to get invited a few years ago) there is a need to keep the Spanish focus; unfortunately for them, with the exception of Mosquera, there aren't really any options as strong as the Italian ProConti teams that give the Giro its national flavour. Guillén would like to build and consolidate the race's support in Spain itself before he worries too much about the US audience. If Radioshack were sending Lance? Great! That would bring in fans! But would it bring in enough to justify the appearance fee? OK. But if Radioshack aren't sending Lance? Well, that's a different matter. More people in Andalucía and Galicia will want to see their local team do well; more people in Catalunya will want to see Tondó and Rodríguez do well... seems like a sensible enough business model. You've got to walk before you can run.

 

[eleven]

Sky have said from the start of the year that each rider on Sky will get one GT each. (with the obvious exception of Wiggins). Whilst this may seem a little arrogant considering they were not guaranteed spots in these GTs (much like RS). This comment actually tells the Vuelta orgainisers that they have a serious interest in riding the GT and that it is not just the backup plan in case Tour of California and Tour de France plans fall through. RS on the other hand were going merrily on their way spewing that Tour of Cal is 4 GT shit and nothing else matters. Great way to get in the organisers good books

So, remove the TDF team from Sky (since we're taking them at their word about one GT apiece, of course) and tell me who the competitive team at the Vuelta will be.

You do realise that Xacobeo-Galicia have had a top 5 contender in the past three Vueltas? Someone who has specifically trained for the Vuelta and made it their seasons goal and not a back up plan. You know that guy called Ezequiel Mosquera?

Indeed, they have put someone in the top five, four+ minutes back each time.

Something that alot of you Radioshed fanboys

I'm not a "Radioshack Fanboy". I'm just stable enough to realize that they are one of the strongest teams in the world.

are also forgetting is that for some teams it is not about the GC. It is about hunting stages, or getting the points or KOM jersey.

So you think Xacobeo was invited because they will chase stages? Which team member will be leading out that sprint train?

Also one last thing as someone else brought it up earlier in this thread IIRC. Why weren't you guys this vocal when Katusha wasn't in the Vuelta last year or when Footon wasn't in the TdF last year????????????

You must have me confused with another poster - I'm not sure who "you guys" are but I definitely thought Katusha belonged in the TDF. Footon, a bit less so.

 

[eleven]

This is what I mean, what incentive does the Vuelta have in an audience in the US, most of their sponsors are European-based. Next even if RS would ride, without LA, how many of those watching the tour, mainly due to LA would watch the vuelta, these people are not cycling fans, nor even team radioshack fans, they are solely LA fans

Well, let's look at it this way: How much (TV fans x Purchasing power) is lost by excluding RS? I think it's a decent chunk. Would more US fans watch if LA was riding? Sure, But Versus ran the Dauphine with no LA. So they obviously believe that cycling with the likes of Leipheimer is a bigger draw than bullfighting or reruns of a cage match.

And how much is lost by taking RS over a lower-level Spanish team? That's the part I don't know. I'm not convinced that the drop in Spanish viewers (who, afterall, might tune in for Zubeldia for instace) is that great.

But I don't know the Spanish TV market or Spanish ratings. I could certainly be wrong.

 

[eleven]

The Vuelta is very much the little sister of the GTs. It is the runt of the litter. It gets decent audiences, but the oppressive heat and rural nature of much of the territory it passes through is a minus point for attendance, plus cycling, despite the popularity of some successful riders, is not on the upswing in Spain. Lots of sponsors and races have withdrawn in the post-Puerto years, and even before that (Setmana Ciclista a Catalunya, anyone?). Javier Guillén has been pressured to shorten the race to two weeks. TV companies have said that they're not as willing to lay on more than the last hour-90 mins of coverage because there's much more bland landscape, especially in the stages in the south, than in the Giro and Tour, and there aren't as many fans, meaning the atmosphere never seems as good.

Because of these factors, Guillén and Unipublic are looking to energise the national fanbase. The Vuelta is much more Spanish than the Tour is French; with the demise of Spanish ProConti teams like Extremadura, Fuerteventura-Canarias and Relax-GAM in the recent past (plus Portuguese teams like Benfica and Milaneza-Maia [LA-MSS] who used to get invited a few years ago) there is a need to keep the Spanish focus; unfortunately for them, with the exception of Mosquera, there aren't really any options as strong as the Italian ProConti teams that give the Giro its national flavour. Guillén would like to build and consolidate the race's support in Spain itself before he worries too much about the US audience. If Radioshack were sending Lance? Great! That would bring in fans! But would it bring in enough to justify the appearance fee? OK. But if Radioshack aren't sending Lance? Well, that's a different matter. More people in Andalucía and Galicia will want to see their local team do well; more people in Catalunya will want to see Tondó and Rodríguez do well... seems like a sensible enough business model. You've got to walk before you can run.

^That's a very informative and interesting post. You make some very good points. Taken from that perspective, perhaps the decision to keep RS out makes sense - Keeping in mind that someone be left out, RS might just have been the first team on the wrong side of the ledger.

 

[Barrus]

Well, let's look at it this way: How much (TV fans x Purchasing power) is lost by excluding RS? I think it's a decent chunk. Would more US fans watch if LA was riding? Sure, But Versus ran the Dauphine with no LA. So they obviously believe that cycling with the likes of Leipheimer is a bigger draw than bullfighting or reruns of a cage match.

And how much is lost by taking RS over a lower-level Spanish team? That's the part I don't know. I'm not convinced that the drop in Spanish viewers (who, afterall, might tune in for Zubeldia for instace) is that great.

But I don't know the Spanish TV market or Spanish ratings. I could certainly be wrong.

But still what would be the benefit for the vuelta, or its sponsors to be on the US television? Most are local, or at least European sponsors. Also the vuelta is not solely concerned with the financial aspect there is also a sense of national honour and an attempt to boost national cycling, that are two of the main reasons why national teams are selected, and this is the case in any stage race, be it the Giro, the Vuelta, or smaller stage races, at least two national teams get wildcards, this is not about the financial aspect. These two would have been included anyway, the other 4 wildcard teams were the teams against which RS was competing.