Benotti69 said:Sadly there is more than one Ricco.
Virenque paid very little for his cheating.
Maybe but that's still more than anyone else.
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Benotti69 said:Sadly there is more than one Ricco.
Virenque paid very little for his cheating.
Benotti69 said:Sadly there is more than one Ricco.
Virenque paid very little for his cheating.
frenchfry said:I disagree.
He maybe didn't come back to the same level as pre-Festina, but I have no doubt that he was doped right to the end. He won Paris - Tours in 2001 at the height of the dope-fest years and on a team that was no stranger to the needle, no way he did that clean. He was like his buddy Pascal Hervé, he would do anything to win and especially anything to stay in the limelight.
Then again I really dislike Virenque, both the person and the doper-cyclist, so might not be totally objective.
The mosquito video:
http://www.meltybuzz.fr/les-guignols-nadal-n-a-pas-du-tout-aime-les-galerie-237824-769402.html
You appear to be confused about a lot of things, so I am not even going to try to reply.difdauf said:Bull****, he was in no team for Paris Tour, it was a one time trial. How could he have take advantage of any team doping policy ? And even if he did, it would require like several trucks full of doping products for Contador to win Paris-Tours without team or racing days. You have to respect that even if you don't like him which is understandable.
You probably don't know what Virenque really get through to think that he could have dopped after 2001. He paid more for doping than no one ever did. The mosquito video is only one among hundreds, his life becomes hell because of doping, you really think he tried to fix that by doping more ? There is only one Ricco.
Tonton said:Thanks for the video. A lot of folks will have a good laugh if they haven't watched it already.
Virenque is polarizing: you hate him or you love him. I was a fan of his, so my objectivity may be challenged as well . But looking at facts, I see a different post ban Virenque. Before, he could drop most big guns 'a la pedale', i.e. dropping JU and LA (in 2000 I think). After, he had to be in breakaways to stand a chance. In 2002, he wins on the Ventoux, but lost like 3 minutes in the final climb. that was a different Virenque.
Finally, in 'Not Normal', the data shows performances that seem less 'mutant' than his competition in the late '90s. One can only speculate how good he would have been clean against clean riders.
thehog said:3 month ban I think he got? Off season as well. Threat of jail wasn't very nice though.
difdauf said:Maybe but that's still more than anyone else.
thehog said:3 month ban I think he got? Off season as well. Threat of jail wasn't very nice though.
Benotti69 said:Virenque trying to be the French David Millar.........
The threat of sharing a shower in one France's gaols was the only thing that made Virenque admit to his doping. That he has not been stripped of his polka dots is another joke the sport keeps telling.......
roundabout said:He did the Vuelta that year I seem to remember
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2995461/Cycling-Virenque-banned-for-taking-drugs.html
9 months reduced to 6 or so
Tonton said:I didn't get the David Millar thing.
True, when testifying, his only way out of jail was to sing. And he sang. Otherwise, he could have faced time for what was basically being part of a drug trafficking organization.
The investigation and sanctions were with regards to dope in the '98 TdF. That he kept jerseys and wins for other years was normal from in that regard.
That he (or Riis, Vino, et caetera) remain in the business bothers me more. ASO could simply decide not to give them credentials/passes, thus making it impossible for them to cover/work the TdF. There won't be clean cycling until the good guys run it.
The 200 or so pages of Ma Vérité camouflage this dodgy logic [that Virenque never took drugs because he was never caught taking drugs] with sometimes justifiable grievances against the breaches of confidence that have fed the press since the scandal broke. But they also skirt the substantive issues with tedious consistency. Readers after la vérité won't find it in Ma Vérité and fans who have invested emotions in Virenque's sporting career deserve better. If he's innocent, how does Virenque counter the accusations against him coming from all quarters? The answer is: he doesn't even attempt to. Virenque pathetically observes the peloton's custom of keeping mum: he never mentions coming into contact with doping practices, directly or indirectly. He doesn't describe techniques or list substances. He doesn't name names... he carries on as if the problem didn't exist. After all that has happened in the past year, there can be only one reason to buy a book by Richard Virenque: to read a detailed denial of involvement in doping, or a full, contrite confession. Ma Vérité has neither: and integrity is virtually undetectable too."
thehog said:His Saint David moment;
Benotti69 said:Really? really? Virenque paid back all the money he won by cheating? He gave back all those jerseys he won? He has no career in the sport? He is not lauded by the sport and his back slapped every July?
Plenty have had worse than Virenque, Landis, Ricco, Jascke, Kohl, Manzano never mind those that died from EPO.
difdauf said:He has been the shame of a whole nation during several years, every day in every media, one of the main subject of joke in every schoolyard. That's not for nothing that a guy post one of this 15 years old video, Virenque's guignol is more famous in France than the real one.
His ban was less than one year but in fact it was more than that as between 1998 and 2000 he just tried to race through the crazyness around him. He learnt he would do the tour 99 one day before the start and had to come with a bodyguard. That's not really racing.
But must of all, he is the first real doping "case". Before him, doping wasn't really bad, no one really tried to prevent it before. If there weren't radar on the roads, you would probably be happy to try to reach the max speed of your new car and wouldn't think that's that bad. Every one do it and no one say anything, that has to be legit. It's easy to say 15 years later, "Oh what an awful cheater !".
Virenque was just the fuse, cycling used when people discovered cyclists were all cheaters. Ironically his former teamates zulle and Dufaux (suspended during winter) finished 2nd and 4th of the tour 99 behind Armstrong while all the world was flaming Virenque. The renew of cycling they said, the cheaters out !
You can't compare Virenque to Landis, Ricco or Armstrong. Those guys were trying to **** a system that was actually fighting doping. They prevent things to get better when things could have changed. It's easy for Millar to teach others lessons, should i recall that he was caught in 2004, 6 years after Festina, but yes it must be system's fault. Like Armstrong, he didn't have choice. He didn't know that was bad.
This 2000's generation had choice, they just didn't take it. 90's hadn't. That was arms race without any rules until the bubble exploded in 98.
difdauf said:He has been the shame of a whole nation during several years, every day in every media, one of the main subject of joke in every schoolyard. That's not for nothing that a guy post one of this 15 years old video, Virenque's guignol is more famous in France than the real one.
His ban was less than one year but in fact it was more than that as between 1998 and 2000 he just tried to race through the crazyness around him. He learnt he would do the tour 99 one day before the start and had to come with a bodyguard. That's not really racing.
But must of all, he is the first real doping "case". Before him, doping wasn't really bad, no one really tried to prevent it before. If there weren't radar on the roads, you would probably be happy to try to reach the max speed of your new car and wouldn't think that's that bad. Every one do it and no one say anything, that has to be legit. It's easy to say 15 years later, "Oh what an awful cheater !".
Virenque was just the fuse, cycling used when people discovered cyclists were all cheaters. Ironically his former teamates zulle and Dufaux (suspended during winter) finished 2nd and 4th of the tour 99 behind Armstrong while all the world was flaming Virenque. The renew of cycling they said, the cheaters out !
You can't compare Virenque to Landis, Ricco or Armstrong. Those guys were trying to **** a system that was actually fighting doping. They prevent things to get better when things could have changed. It's easy for Millar to teach others lessons, should i recall that he was caught in 2004, 6 years after Festina, but yes it must be system's fault. Like Armstrong, he didn't have choice. He didn't know that was bad.
This 2000's generation had choice, they just didn't take it. 90's hadn't. That was arms race without any rules until the bubble exploded in 98.
Benotti69 said:Thierry Ardisson, asked Virenque: "If you were sure of winning the Tour by being doped but knew you would not get caught, would you do it?"
Virenque replied:
"Win the Tour doped, but without getting caught? Yes."
Tells you all you need to know.
Tonton said:Yes, I remember reading a few excerpts of this masterpiece in l'Equipe. A whole lot of nothing. Pretty pathetic. Good material to start a barbecue, two pages at a time, or as relief toilet paper .
SeriousSam said:It doesn't tell you much. This type of question never does.
It would have been hilarious had he answered "no" given that he actually doped to achieve lesser goals, without knowing he'd achieve them and without knowing wouldn't get caught.
Caught dopers say yes. Teflon dopers think yes and say no. Many clean riders think yes and say no.
ammattipyöräily @ammattipyoraily · 2m
#TDF, Stage 16. Thibaut Pinot set a new record time on Port de Bales.
MacRoadie said:No thanks. I wouldn't want any of that rubbing off on my a$$...
Benotti69 said:3rd time a charm
Come on Benotti, it's the third time it's been raced and the second time as the final mountain. In 2010 it was cruised until the Andy Schleck bike maintenance seminar and in 2012 everyone had to sit around for Wigans. It's not like the record is a legacy of the 90's-mid 00's.Benotti69 said:3rd time a charm
Benotti69 said:It does tell us much, because it was asked of Virenque as part of a documentary for TV and after he gave the above reply he contacted the interviewer and asked for the question and answer to be removed.
Tonton said:Actually it happened at a Thierry Ardisson show, equivalent to a Jimmy Kimmel type of show. The show was live, and when it ended, Virenque asked something like "OK, so you edit my response right?" which goes to show once again what an idiot he is.
That bothers me when today's guys on the podium are referred to as first French riders to make a podium since '97. Until there is smoke (beyond the guilt by association argument - how about data, facts), I will believe that Bardet, JC and Pinot were favored by race circumstances, no early ITT, got good breaks, and some serious talent as well.
But again, I believed in Virenque until '98, in LA until '00, in Landis when he took off solo, I even believed in Vino...not