Random thoughts

[DarkWing]

Sorry if any of this has been discussed elsewhere, but there's so many threads with so many pages that it's impossible to read it all.


Some random thoughts about this whole thing about Landis.

1. Why is that we focus SO much on Lance, when Landis made allegations about people such as Rihs, Johan, Pat...? Surely people like these are more important to get out of the sport - even though Lance is probably the biggest profile cyclist ever.

2. People are eagerly awaiting Lance's ex-wife to come forward - but isn't it more likely that she'd support Lance and deny the Landis allegations?

3. I don't see Lance retiring or not doing the tour - Retiring would be the same as admitting that Landis is speaking the truth. As I see it, the only reason for Lance not doing the tour, is if he's denied to start.

 

[euanli]

Armstrong has already stated he is retiring after the Tour, all he needs to do is have a convenient injury that doesn't allow him to ride...

 

[SpartacusRox]

Sorry if any of this has been discussed elsewhere, but there's so many threads with so many pages that it's impossible to read it all.


Some random thoughts about this whole thing about Landis.

1. Why is that we focus SO much on Lance, when Landis made allegations about people such as Rihs, Johan, Pat...? Surely people like these are more important to get out of the sport - even though Lance is probably the biggest profile cyclist ever.

2. People are eagerly awaiting Lance's ex-wife to come forward - but isn't it more likely that she'd support Lance and deny the Landis allegations?

3. I don't see Lance retiring or not doing the tour - Retiring would be the same as admitting that Landis is speaking the truth. As I see it, the only reason for Lance not doing the tour, is if he's denied to start.

1. Because these forums are obsessed with Lance, Both for and against but mostly against
2. Agreed
3. Personally I think he will do the Tour, no way will they deny him a start, why would they? He is only one of many mentioned by Landis and as yet no proof has been provided of any allegation. On that basis they would have to ban half the peleton and Pat Mquaid from attending. (they may do the latter of course)

 

[Barrus]

1. Why is that we focus SO much on Lance, when Landis made allegations about people such as Rihs, Johan, Pat...? Surely people like these are more important to get out of the sport - even though Lance is probably the biggest profile cyclist ever.

1 the press focuses mainly on him, this due to the fact that especially for the American press he is the best, and possibly only known cyclist, to people outside of the real fans of cycling at least. It also helps in a press point of view, that there is a well-known and world famous person implicated, which immediately gives a face to targets of the allegations, this is better used as a method to ensure people to be interested with a story, rather than if they would focus on the entire culture of cycling and a abstract organization such as the UCI.

 

[SpartacusRox]

1 the press focuses mainly on him, this due to the fact that especially for the American press he is the best, and possibly only known cyclist, to people outside of the real fans of cycling at least. It also helps in a press point of view, that there is a well-known and world famous person implicated, which immediately gives a face to targets of the allegations, this is better used as a method to ensure people to be interested with a story, rather than if they would focus on the entire culture of cycling and a abstract organization such as the UCI.

Good post, very true.

 

[theswordsman]

Lance's ex wife is a religious woman who's just published a devotional book about motherhood. She and Armstrong used to be very involved in raising their kids together. They lived near each other and shared responsibilities. When he went to California to train in 2008, she rented a house there too so they could split time with the kids. When Lance thought about coming back, he asked her permission.
Now he's got an infant out of wedlock with his girlfriend and another on the way. They're with him everywhere, and he tweets about it, while her kids are rarely in the same state or country he is.
The last time she was on the witness stand, she refused to answer at her lawyers instruction. Lying isn't an option - if she saw or knows anything, she either spills or does not. But her kids are old enough to know what's going on, and the people who buy her books will be watching. I hope the reports are correct, and she's doing the right thing.

Most of the chatter here is about Lance because the news stories are about Lance, and because Radio Shack are the ones fighting this. Plus, a lot of us think he's done some bad things.

 

[python]

Most of the chatter here is about Lance because the news stories are about Lance, and because Radio Shack are the ones fighting this. Plus, a lot of us think he's done some bad things.

there's even simpler reason. most of the stories are about lance because he wanted it so.

as ever in his endless arrogance he thought he could manipulate the media his way or threaten/ignore those with an independent streak.

guess what... it did not work.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sorry if any of this has been discussed elsewhere, but there's so many threads with so many pages that it's impossible to read it all.


Some random thoughts about this whole thing about Landis.

1. Why is that we focus SO much on Lance, when Landis made allegations about people such as Rihs, Johan, Pat...? Surely people like these are more important to get out of the sport - even though Lance is probably the biggest profile cyclist ever.

2. People are eagerly awaiting Lance's ex-wife to come forward - but isn't it more likely that she'd support Lance and deny the Landis allegations?

3. I don't see Lance retiring or not doing the tour - Retiring would be the same as admitting that Landis is speaking the truth. As I see it, the only reason for Lance not doing the tour, is if he's denied to start.

Good points -
No. 1 - I think you need look no further than 'SpartasucRox' reply.
Of all the people named who's supporters have appeared in abundance - is their anyone on here defending Johan, Rihs, Lim, Levi,Pat? Nope, just Lance....

Anyone who cares about the sport is more concerned about the allegations against the UCI.

2. - I do not expect Kik to willfully co-operate, only if she is forced to with Federal punishment. Otherwise I expect her to 'not comment'.

3. - Agree that it will look bad if Lance does not ride - but his form is poor, so I expect a convenient excuse - I don't think his ego could take the humiliation if his form does not 'miraculously' improve.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry if any of this has been discussed elsewhere, but there's so many threads with so many pages that it's impossible to read it all.


Some random thoughts about this whole thing about Landis.

1. Why is that we focus SO much on Lance, when Landis made allegations about people such as Rihs, Johan, Pat...? Surely people like these are more important to get out of the sport - even though Lance is probably the biggest profile cyclist ever.

2. People are eagerly awaiting Lance's ex-wife to come forward - but isn't it more likely that she'd support Lance and deny the Landis allegations?

3. I don't see Lance retiring or not doing the tour - Retiring would be the same as admitting that Landis is speaking the truth. As I see it, the only reason for Lance not doing the tour, is if he's denied to start.

1. All three of your questions are about Lance. Irony much?

2. Lying to a Federal investigator is a serious offense. As others have pointed out, she does not get spousal privilege regarding illegal acts, etc.

3. Lance is in a world of trouble, and ASO is silent so far. I would not expect that to remain so even if Lance doesn't pull out. However, I do believe Lance will pull out of the Tour.

 

[JPM London]

Armstrong has already stated he is retiring after the Tour, all he needs to do is have a convenient injury that doesn't allow him to ride...

Have to correct you there: The injury would not allow him to ride and win. Don't forget the rule of Lance: He rides and wins. AC and AS must have doped last year to come to Paris before clean Lance... So in reality he's last year's winner as well.

By the way I think the wins attributed to Lemond was actually also Lance, but haven't found a link to support that. He was very, very light back in those days...

 

[kurtinsc]

Good points -
No. 1 - I think you need look no further than 'SpartasucRox' reply.
Of all the people named who's supporters have appeared in abundance - is their anyone on here defending Johan, Rihs, Lim, Levi,Pat? Nope, just Lance....

Anyone who cares about the sport is more concerned about the allegations against the UCI.

2. - I do not expect Kik to willfully co-operate, only if she is forced to with Federal punishment. Otherwise I expect her to 'not comment'.

3. - Agree that it will look bad if Lance does not ride - but his form is poor, so I expect a convenient excuse - I don't think his ego could take the humiliation if his form does not 'miraculously' improve.

Well, I'll defend Levi a little bit.

I tend to believe most of what Landis said, but one thing he apparently claimed that I'm 100% sure was false was that he and Levi doped together as teammates.

Mainly because they were never on the same team at the same time.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I'll defend Levi a little bit.

I tend to believe most of what Landis said, but one thing he apparently claimed that I'm 100% sure was false was that he and Levi doped together as teammates.

Mainly because they were never on the same team at the same time.

You might want to read the information again. He said that he transfused Levi while they were on different teams. Read more carefully.

 

[BroDeal]

Well, I'll defend Levi a little bit.

I tend to believe most of what Landis said, but one thing he apparently claimed that I'm 100% sure was false was that he and Levi doped together as teammates.

Mainly because they were never on the same team at the same time.

There are stories about Leipheimer's wife bragging to people that he was using transfusions. These stories were being talked about years ago. I guess they were right.

 

[pedaling squares]

1. Why is that we focus SO much on Lance, when Landis made allegations about people such as Rihs, Johan, Pat...? Surely people like these are more important to get out of the sport - even though Lance is probably the biggest profile cyclist ever.

One huge difference is that Armstrong is the only 7 time winner of the Tour de France. And by far the biggest name in cycling, not only in North America but worldwide. And because he has been dogged by doping allegations for years but has always avoided having them stick to him. And because he reacts differently than other cyclists when the doping issue is raised - he makes personal attacks, he discredits people, he ruins lives (literally). So he has a huge target painted on his back.

2. People are eagerly awaiting Lance's ex-wife to come forward - but isn't it more likely that she'd support Lance and deny the Landis allegations?

Depends on the consequences. I don't buy the nice girl routine, if her morals were so stringent she would have spoken out one way or the other years ago.

3. I don't see Lance retiring or not doing the tour - Retiring would be the same as admitting that Landis is speaking the truth. As I see it, the only reason for Lance not doing the tour, is if he's denied to start.

As said, just riding the tour is not acceptable. He has to be very competitive or it's unacceptable to him. You won't see him grinding out stages in the autobus and giving interviews about being happy to be there to raise cancer awareness. It's about personal success and cancer is another podium to stand on. He has raced so little, and so ineffectively, this year that I will be surprised to see him in France. I look for an illness/injury excuse.

 

[tockit]

One huge difference is that Armstrong is the only 7 time winner of the Tour de France. And by far the biggest name in cycling, not only in North America but worldwide. And because he has been dogged by doping allegations for years but has always avoided having them stick to him.

Usually where there's smoke, there's fire, and this story's been blazing for years!

Depends on the consequences. I don't buy the nice girl routine, if her morals were so stringent she would have spoken out one way or the other years ago.

She has 3 children with the guy, dude! Think about it....

If she came out 'on her own' and bashed Lance, her children's lives would be negatively affected (emotionally, financially, etc).

Not to mention the fact that she would be trashing her children's father in front of the world.

I'm sure her children are more important to her than drugs in cycling.

 

[luckyboy]

Armstrong has already stated he is retiring after the Tour, all he needs to do is have a convenient injury that doesn't allow him to ride...

I thought he was meant to do two years with RetirementShack?

 

[131313]

1. Why is that we focus SO much on Lance, when Landis made allegations about people such as Rihs, Johan, Pat...?

I don't know. I implored someone from CN to start asking some hard questions before this even hit the fan? Maybe it's because I misspelled 'Rhis' so they didn't get the message...

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=7184&highlight=rihs

3. I don't see Lance retiring or not doing the tour - Retiring would be the same as admitting that Landis is speaking the truth. As I see it, the only reason for Lance not doing the tour, is if he's denied to start.

Having ridden with him at Gila, I have to say I don't think there's enough EPO in the world to make that guy a podium contender at the tour. Do you really expect him to be fetching bottles for Tiago Machado? I don't.

 

[Anonymous]

I had not seen this before and apologize if I'm late to the party. I wondered at the time this happened if Witt knew what was going on.

I'd guess, in Floyd's heart of hearts, this was the most devastating result of his actions/lies/cheating.

Q: As long as we're on super-emotional subjects, you mentioned David [Witt], and I guess you must feel somehow like he was affected by what you did. [Editor's note: Witt committed suicide in August 2006. He was Landis' father-in-law at the time. Landis told Ford that on one occasion, he asked Witt to stay in an apartment in the south of France to make sure his supply of refrigerated blood was secure.]

A: Yeah, of course he was. Because he was involved, and he helped. And I've got to believe that if things didn't happen the way they did, he'd still be alive. I'm not saying that's the reason he's dead, but without that, I don't see why he wouldn't still be here. And he was my best friend, and I [long pause] yeah. Look, I feel for everybody else who's gotten named here, I feel for all these people who have to deal with this now. I know how unpleasant it was for me, and I know how your best friends turn against you and say all kinds of crazy things. I wouldn't wish it on anybody, but I can't take it anymore. I don't want to be that guy anymore.


That's a confessional, big time. Just brutal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=5215959

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Kik already has the money. Testifying for the Feds, and not pulling an "I can't recall", means she won't have a "Conspiracy to commit X" charge. If she simply refuses to speak, either by pleading the 5th, or in contempt, then LA is cooked with adverse inference. The points about LA not seeing his own kids, with two new kids with this new girlfriend, probably means she can finally do this under the proper setting.

So, she has the $, has the "deal", has rationalization, and the implication of her corroboration and extra detail all mean LA is toast.

@Scott SoCal, yes, that is brutal. It is a thorough interview by Ford. It also lays plain all the motivations and emotions of why Landis is doing all of this. He simply can't do "it" any longer.

 

[VeloCity]

I know how your best friends turn against you and say all kinds of crazy things.

Hmm, could that be a veiled reference to, say, Armstrong and Zabriskie, among others?

 

[BroDeal]

@Scott SoCal, yes, that is brutal. It is a thorough interview by Ford. It also lays plain all the motivations and emotions of why Landis is doing all of this. He simply can't do "it" any longer.

He says it pretty clearly. He feels guilty and since as he cannot race at the top level then there is no reason to carry the guilt around. If he could race at the top level then he probably could have lived with it.

I liked the answers he gave. It was not the typical, "Oh, I feel so bad. I made a mistake. I gave in to tempation," that all the "reformed" dopers seem to give.

 

[eleven]

Kik already has the money. Testifying for the Feds, and not pulling an "I can't recall", means she won't have a "Conspiracy to commit X" charge. If she simply refuses to speak, either by pleading the 5th, or in contempt, then LA is cooked with adverse inference. The points about LA not seeing his own kids, with two new kids with this new girlfriend, probably means she can finally do this under the proper setting.

So, she has the $, has the "deal", has rationalization, and the implication of her corroboration and extra detail all mean LA is toast.

@Scott SoCal, yes, that is brutal. It is a thorough interview by Ford. It also lays plain all the motivations and emotions of why Landis is doing all of this. He simply can't do "it" any longer.

She has spousal privilege over those conversations if she choose to use it.

 

[quadsRme]

He says it pretty clearly. He feels guilty and since as he cannot race at the top level then there is no reason to carry the guilt around. If he could race at the top level then he probably could have lived with it.

I liked the answers he gave. It was not the typical, "Oh, I feel so bad. I made a mistake. I gave in to tempation," that all the "reformed" dopers seem to give.

I agree. This had to be tough to do, but he is at ease with himself now.

 

[Anonymous]

He says it pretty clearly. He feels guilty and since as he cannot race at the top level then there is no reason to carry the guilt around. If he could race at the top level then he probably could have lived with it.

I liked the answers he gave. It was not the typical, "Oh, I feel so bad. I made a mistake. I gave in to tempation," that all the "reformed" dopers seem to give.

+1

"Q: So if someone were to say you're doing this out of spite and anger, how much of that is there in the equation along with your wanting to clear your conscience?

A: I have no doubt that people will say that ... There's a little bit of guilt that goes along with having to lie. But if I was given the chance to race, I could deal with that little bit of guilt. But there's no upside for me if I'm not allowed to race and I'm not allowed back into the sport on any level. I'd prefer not to have to deal with the guilt, so I'm going to tell the truth. You can make it out to look like I'm an evil guy, but the fact is, it's a fairly simple choice for me. Yeah, I wanted to race again. I did what I thought I was supposed to do to make that happen. It didn't happen, and so I don't wish to feel guilty anymore. "


Right after the story broke when LA and Hog were discounting Floyd and his mental state, I thought to myself, "this is going nowhere." But, the more I read from Floyd the more believable he seems... I don't think this story is going away and I'd offer the semi-mea culpa today from Paddy as an example of dominos (possibly) beginning to fall.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

She has spousal privilege over those conversations if she choose to use it.

True, though it can be suspended if they are joint in the accusation. So, if leverage in compelling her to cooperate is accusing her to be part and parcel to the conspiracy to commit the crime(s), the spousal privilege can be suspended.

Perhaps this is what could happen if she decides to suddenly lose her memory.