Rank 1-4: Boonen, Cancellara, Contador & Valverde

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Re: Re:

Cannibal72 said:
El Pistolero said:
No excuse. A great classics-rider should be able to ride over hills. WC-routes never have high mountains, so all-rounders should be able to fight for victory in most years.
Last year it had cobbles btw.
One section with easy cobbles doesn't make for a cobbled race... And Boonen is no longer on his old level anymore anyway, but he still won plenty of big races when he was. The 2005 WC was hilly enough to drop all sprinters except Boonen. He was also top ten in the 2006 WC. The Ronde van Vlaanderen also has plenty of short hills, which suit Boonen perfectly. Roubaix and the Ronde are fundamentally different races, despite both featuring cobbles. Only the great can win both: Boonen and Cancellara. Then there's Gent-Wevelgem which has a couple of cobbled hills, but it can still be won by sprinters. Not many riders have the talent to win both Gent-Wevelgem, the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Paris-Roubaix. No current cyclist but Boonen has done it. And he's record holder in ALL these races.

A great classics-rider should be able to get over cobbles as well, yet Valverde sucks at it, as we saw during the Tour in 2014. Firenze was basically a climber's race and the Olympics is as well this year. So you're wrong on that as well.
Also Mendrisio and Beijing.
Yet Cancellara, a non-climber, was able to almost win them both.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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Re: Re:

Bardamu said:
Cannibal72 said:
El Pistolero said:
No excuse. A great classics-rider should be able to ride over hills. WC-routes never have high mountains, so all-rounders should be able to fight for victory in most years.
Last year it had cobbles btw.
One section with easy cobbles doesn't make for a cobbled race... And Boonen is no longer on his old level anymore anyway, but he still won plenty of big races when he was. The 2005 WC was hilly enough to drop all sprinters except Boonen. He was also top ten in the 2006 WC. The Ronde van Vlaanderen also has plenty of short hills, which suit Boonen perfectly. Roubaix and the Ronde are fundamentally different races, despite both featuring cobbles. Only the great can win both: Boonen and Cancellara. Then there's Gent-Wevelgem which has a couple of cobbled hills, but it can still be won by sprinters. Not many riders have the talent to win both Gent-Wevelgem, the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Paris-Roubaix. No current cyclist but Boonen has done it. And he's record holder in ALL these races.

A great classics-rider should be able to get over cobbles as well, yet Valverde sucks at it, as we saw during the Tour in 2014. Firenze was basically a climber's race and the Olympics is as well this year. So you're wrong on that as well.
Also Mendrisio and Beijing.
Yet Cancellara, a non-climber, was able to almost win them both.
Thus showing exactly why he's a better rider than Piti...
 
Re: Re:

Cannibal72 said:
Bardamu said:
Cannibal72 said:
El Pistolero said:
No excuse. A great classics-rider should be able to ride over hills. WC-routes never have high mountains, so all-rounders should be able to fight for victory in most years.
Last year it had cobbles btw.
One section with easy cobbles doesn't make for a cobbled race... And Boonen is no longer on his old level anymore anyway, but he still won plenty of big races when he was. The 2005 WC was hilly enough to drop all sprinters except Boonen. He was also top ten in the 2006 WC. The Ronde van Vlaanderen also has plenty of short hills, which suit Boonen perfectly. Roubaix and the Ronde are fundamentally different races, despite both featuring cobbles. Only the great can win both: Boonen and Cancellara. Then there's Gent-Wevelgem which has a couple of cobbled hills, but it can still be won by sprinters. Not many riders have the talent to win both Gent-Wevelgem, the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Paris-Roubaix. No current cyclist but Boonen has done it. And he's record holder in ALL these races.

A great classics-rider should be able to get over cobbles as well, yet Valverde sucks at it, as we saw during the Tour in 2014. Firenze was basically a climber's race and the Olympics is as well this year. So you're wrong on that as well.
Also Mendrisio and Beijing.
Yet Cancellara, a non-climber, was able to almost win them both.
Thus showing exactly why he's a better rider than Piti...
No. Showing the 'hilly parcours is not suitable for riders like Boonen!!' argument is not more than a weak excuse.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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No. Showing the 'hilly parcours is not suitable for riders like Boonen!!' argument is not more than a weak excuse.
Cancellara is not a "rider like Boonen". He is nothing like Boonen in type.

Let's run down the facts.
Boonen has 1 rainbow jersey. Valverde has 0. This is despite the fact that over the course of their careers there have been no truly cobbled WCs and a lot of hilly ones. Among these hilly courses was Mendrisio, a race where Valverde - on his specialist terrain - was outclassed by Fabian Cancellara.
 
Cannibal72 said:
No. Showing the 'hilly parcours is not suitable for riders like Boonen!!' argument is not more than a weak excuse.
Cancellara is not a "rider like Boonen". He is nothing like Boonen in type.

Let's run down the facts.
Boonen has 1 rainbow jersey. Valverde has 0. This is despite the fact that over the course of their careers there have been no truly cobbled WCs and a lot of hilly ones. Among these hilly courses was Mendrisio, a race where Valverde - on his specialist terrain - was outclassed by Fabian Cancellara.
And many other years Valverde did get to the podium, despite the course not being perfectly suitable for him.
 
Bardamu said:
Cannibal72 said:
No. Showing the 'hilly parcours is not suitable for riders like Boonen!!' argument is not more than a weak excuse.
Cancellara is not a "rider like Boonen". He is nothing like Boonen in type.

Let's run down the facts.
Boonen has 1 rainbow jersey. Valverde has 0. This is despite the fact that over the course of their careers there have been no truly cobbled WCs and a lot of hilly ones. Among these hilly courses was Mendrisio, a race where Valverde - on his specialist terrain - was outclassed by Fabian Cancellara.
And many other years Valverde did get to the podium, despite the course not being perfectly suitable for him.
Who the hell cares about the podium? The fact is that Valverde has never worn the rainbow stripes
 
Mar 13, 2015
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PremierAndrew said:
Bardamu said:
Cannibal72 said:
No. Showing the 'hilly parcours is not suitable for riders like Boonen!!' argument is not more than a weak excuse.
Cancellara is not a "rider like Boonen". He is nothing like Boonen in type.

Let's run down the facts.
Boonen has 1 rainbow jersey. Valverde has 0. This is despite the fact that over the course of their careers there have been no truly cobbled WCs and a lot of hilly ones. Among these hilly courses was Mendrisio, a race where Valverde - on his specialist terrain - was outclassed by Fabian Cancellara.
And many other years Valverde did get to the podium, despite the course not being perfectly suitable for him.
Who the hell cares about the podium? The fact is that Valverde has never worn the rainbow stripes
Dude, Valverde is the record holder for WC RR medals with freaking 6!!! That record will stand for God knows how many years. It's better than any win! I stand by that! His WC record is second to only handful of riders (Binda, Van Steenbergen, Merckx, Freire, Ronsse, Van Looy, Maertens, Lemond, Bettini) Boonen is not close to him in that regard. One win alone doesn't top six medals, not even close!
 
PremierAndrew said:
Bardamu said:
Cannibal72 said:
No. Showing the 'hilly parcours is not suitable for riders like Boonen!!' argument is not more than a weak excuse.
Cancellara is not a "rider like Boonen". He is nothing like Boonen in type.

Let's run down the facts.
Boonen has 1 rainbow jersey. Valverde has 0. This is despite the fact that over the course of their careers there have been no truly cobbled WCs and a lot of hilly ones. Among these hilly courses was Mendrisio, a race where Valverde - on his specialist terrain - was outclassed by Fabian Cancellara.
And many other years Valverde did get to the podium, despite the course not being perfectly suitable for him.
Who the hell cares about the podium? The fact is that Valverde has never worn the rainbow stripes
Valvere has been born about 20 years too late, otherwise he'd be up there with Mercx and The Badger.
 
Re:

El Pistolero said:
One win easily tops six medals... Lol.
Now you're just trolling him lol

Boonen is/was an amazing rider, as was/is Canc', as was/is Contador, as is Valverde. I'd rank him ahead of the other three, however, by virtue of his consistent, season-long output of quality results.

It is regrettable that he does not yet have a WC jersey, especially when Freire won x3 and Bettini x2. I don't think that Costa or Kwiatkowski were compelling world champions. Can't believe that it's been almost 11 years since Boonen won his jersey. Might as well be another lifetime ago.

I enjoy being a fan of Valverde though. He reminds me of a Spanish version of Kelly, with better form on the bike of course.

Time waits for no man...
 
elfed68 said:
Valvere has been born about 20 years too late, otherwise he'd be up there with Mercx and The Badger.
Well he'd definitely have an incredible palmares in an era with less specialisation but Merckx and Hinault were something else. Sean Kelly would be a better comparison.

And imho, Sagan is the only cyclist I've seen since 2007 that seems more talented than Valverde. But for whatever reason, Valverde's palmares don't reflect this at all. He seems to lack a winner's determination who is happier to settle for 2nd and 3rd places than risking it all for a shot at victory. How many times have we seen Valverde sit up and get ready for a sprint for 2nd instead of really trying to chase down an attacker?
 
Jul 15, 2016
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Re: Re:

Cannibal72 said:
Bardamu said:
Cannibal72 said:
El Pistolero said:
No excuse. A great classics-rider should be able to ride over hills. WC-routes never have high mountains, so all-rounders should be able to fight for victory in most years.
Last year it had cobbles btw.
One section with easy cobbles doesn't make for a cobbled race... And Boonen is no longer on his old level anymore anyway, but he still won plenty of big races when he was. The 2005 WC was hilly enough to drop all sprinters except Boonen. He was also top ten in the 2006 WC. The Ronde van Vlaanderen also has plenty of short hills, which suit Boonen perfectly. Roubaix and the Ronde are fundamentally different races, despite both featuring cobbles. Only the great can win both: Boonen and Cancellara. Then there's Gent-Wevelgem which has a couple of cobbled hills, but it can still be won by sprinters. Not many riders have the talent to win both Gent-Wevelgem, the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Paris-Roubaix. No current cyclist but Boonen has done it. And he's record holder in ALL these races.

A great classics-rider should be able to get over cobbles as well, yet Valverde sucks at it, as we saw during the Tour in 2014. Firenze was basically a climber's race and the Olympics is as well this year. So you're wrong on that as well.
Also Mendrisio and Beijing.
Yet Cancellara, a non-climber, was able to almost win them both.
Thus showing exactly why he's a better rider than Piti...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Jul 15, 2016
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Re: Re:

Cannibal72 said:
Bardamu said:
Cannibal72 said:
El Pistolero said:
No excuse. A great classics-rider should be able to ride over hills. WC-routes never have high mountains, so all-rounders should be able to fight for victory in most years.
Last year it had cobbles btw.
One section with easy cobbles doesn't make for a cobbled race... And Boonen is no longer on his old level anymore anyway, but he still won plenty of big races when he was. The 2005 WC was hilly enough to drop all sprinters except Boonen. He was also top ten in the 2006 WC. The Ronde van Vlaanderen also has plenty of short hills, which suit Boonen perfectly. Roubaix and the Ronde are fundamentally different races, despite both featuring cobbles. Only the great can win both: Boonen and Cancellara. Then there's Gent-Wevelgem which has a couple of cobbled hills, but it can still be won by sprinters. Not many riders have the talent to win both Gent-Wevelgem, the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Paris-Roubaix. No current cyclist but Boonen has done it. And he's record holder in ALL these races.

A great classics-rider should be able to get over cobbles as well, yet Valverde sucks at it, as we saw during the Tour in 2014. Firenze was basically a climber's race and the Olympics is as well this year. So you're wrong on that as well.
Also Mendrisio and Beijing.
Yet Cancellara, a non-climber, was able to almost win them both.
Thus showing exactly why he's a better rider than Piti...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Feb 6, 2016
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Cancellara can challenge on hills as well as cobbles, Valverde has never succeeded (or, admittedly, really tried) over cobbles - which as El Pistolero says a great classics rider should be able to do. The fact that Cance was able to challenge for the victory doesn't make the mountains on those courses - or the facts that they were actually won by climbers Evans and Sanchez - disappear.
 
Mar 13, 2015
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Re: Re:

PremierAndrew said:
SeriousSam said:
El Pistolero said:
One win easily tops six medals... Lol.
Six medals easily indicate greater ability than one win.
Absolutely true, but it is not more desirable at all. Six medals is not a bigger achievement than one win, especially when comparing the current greats of the sport
I say it is! Easily. Especially in this race, where parcours change every year
 
It shows he's got a shot at more diffrerent parcourses. Climber, so always in winning group, good enough sprint to always challenge the sprint, somehow always beaten. Was he ever the strongest on the WCRR. I don't think so
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
It shows he's got a shot at more diffrerent parcourses. Climber, so always in winning group, good enough sprint to always challenge the sprint, somehow always beaten. Was he ever the strongest on the WCRR. I don't think so
He was definitely the strongest rider in 2003 and possibly in 2013.
 
May 26, 2012
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Re:

Red Rick said:
It shows he's got a shot at more diffrerent parcourses. Climber, so always in winning group, good enough sprint to always challenge the sprint, somehow always beaten. Was he ever the strongest on the WCRR. I don't think so
Because he is almost always overcooked by excessive amount of racing days compared to others (and especially racing days on form)...Also he is marked as favourite so he can't do any suprise attack like f.e. Kwiatkowski...
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

burning said:
Red Rick said:
It shows he's got a shot at more diffrerent parcourses. Climber, so always in winning group, good enough sprint to always challenge the sprint, somehow always beaten. Was he ever the strongest on the WCRR. I don't think so
He was definitely the strongest rider in 2003 and possibly in 2013.
Nibali was the strongest in 2013, just had bad luck.
 
Jul 15, 2016
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These guys represents the greatest of our generation. However its no doubt that Grand tours trumps all so in that regard the number one place is easy, Ive never witnessed a more complete GT rider in my life time, at his best could TT with the best in the world and climb like noone before him add that he only got better during a 3 week race duo to his incredible recovery its simply no match and unbeatable. Boonen and Cancellera are also two unique riders which has dominated their areas for ages, incredible strong and rare talents ive comed to rest with that we might not see in sometime. (off note there is this guy called Sagan which also has that unnatural talent and could become this great but his story is still beeing written and its to early to tell if he will get to that lvl or not but he certaintly got the talent for it but it remains to be seen if he can win and dominate as much as these guys did) as for Valverde I feel he falls betwen two chairs standing up against these juggernauts, that is not a dig to Valverde which is a incredible rider of his own but those classics hed won is not so much respected as GT's and the cobbles.

So my list goes as this:

1. Contador - Without a doubt the greatest GT rider of our generation, noone even comes close to challenging him, you could also make the case that hes the best grand tour rider of all time. Not only dominating GT's for over 10 years but also winning GT's grand tours for that long is never been done before by anyone and should speak for itself of how great he is, not even Hinault could manage that, add to it that Contador did it in a time and era that cycling has evolved and is more competetive it only goes to show what a unique talent weve been witnessing. Count yourself lucky to beeing able to seen him makin history, cause it is not very likely you will see someone of his talent dominating GT's for more than 10 years in your lifetime again.

2. Boonen AND Cancellera I cant decide of the two. Unlike Contador which noone even comes close to in GT regards these two actually battled it out against each other and I just cant decide which one I will give the nod of whom is the greatest of them. Their both so unique and talented and won so much, nearly the same amount aswell I feel its impossible to rate the one higher than the other. Extremely talented, strong and above all else which is often forgotten incredible mentall thoughness.

4. Valverde - As stated before I feel against these juggernauts he falls betwen two chairs. Not even close to Contador in GT regards and overshadowned by Boonen and Cancellera for the classics. A good GT rider which is also even better at the classics is very uncommon and it is exactly for this reason Valverde deserves to be mentioned as the 4 best rider of our generation which is by no means something bad if someone believes that.
 
Mar 13, 2015
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Re: Re:

El Pistolero said:
burning said:
Red Rick said:
It shows he's got a shot at more diffrerent parcourses. Climber, so always in winning group, good enough sprint to always challenge the sprint, somehow always beaten. Was he ever the strongest on the WCRR. I don't think so
He was definitely the strongest rider in 2003 and possibly in 2013.
Nibali was the strongest in 2013, just had bad luck.
With the car tow? Is that called bad luck these days? :confused:
 
Feb 6, 2016
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Re: Re:

Mr.White said:
El Pistolero said:
burning said:
Red Rick said:
It shows he's got a shot at more diffrerent parcourses. Climber, so always in winning group, good enough sprint to always challenge the sprint, somehow always beaten. Was he ever the strongest on the WCRR. I don't think so
He was definitely the strongest rider in 2003 and possibly in 2013.
Nibali was the strongest in 2013, just had bad luck.
With the car tow? Is that called bad luck these days? :confused:
If Valverde was the strongest, why didn't he follow Costa? Rodriguez was stronger than Valverde, but lost that day either because of tactical incompetence or weakness.
 
Re:

Bluenine said:
These guys represents the greatest of our generation. However its no doubt that Grand tours trumps all so in that regard the number one place is easy, Ive never witnessed a more complete GT rider in my life time, at his best could TT with the best in the world and climb like noone before him add that he only got better during a 3 week race duo to his incredible recovery its simply no match and unbeatable. Boonen and Cancellera are also two unique riders which has dominated their areas for ages, incredible strong and rare talents ive comed to rest with that we might not see in sometime. (off note there is this guy called Sagan which also has that unnatural talent and could become this great but his story is still beeing written and its to early to tell if he will get to that lvl or not but he certaintly got the talent for it but it remains to be seen if he can win and dominate as much as these guys did) as for Valverde I feel he falls betwen two chairs standing up against these juggernauts, that is not a dig to Valverde which is a incredible rider of his own but those classics hed won is not so much respected as GT's and the cobbles.

So my list goes as this:

1. Contador - Without a doubt the greatest GT rider of our generation, noone even comes close to challenging him, you could also make the case that hes the best grand tour rider of all time. Not only dominating GT's for over 10 years but also winning GT's grand tours for that long is never been done before by anyone and should speak for itself of how great he is, not even Hinault could manage that, add to it that Contador did it in a time and era that cycling has evolved and is more competetive it only goes to show what a unique talent weve been witnessing. Count yourself lucky to beeing able to seen him makin history, cause it is not very likely you will see someone of his talent dominating GT's for more than 10 years in your lifetime again.

2. Boonen AND Cancellera I cant decide of the two. Unlike Contador which noone even comes close to in GT regards these two actually battled it out against each other and I just cant decide which one I will give the nod of whom is the greatest of them. Their both so unique and talented and won so much, nearly the same amount aswell I feel its impossible to rate the one higher than the other. Extremely talented, strong and above all else which is often forgotten incredible mentall thoughness.

4. Valverde - As stated before I feel against these juggernauts he falls betwen two chairs. Not even close to Contador in GT regards and overshadowned by Boonen and Cancellera for the classics. A good GT rider which is also even better at the classics is very uncommon and it is exactly for this reason Valverde deserves to be mentioned as the 4 best rider of our generation which is by no means something bad if someone believes that.
I get your reasoning. But for me the rider who contests for victory in every race he partcipates in, really makes him stand out compared to the rest. Only one rider can ride every GT and ride for a podium and win stages and in the same year (!) ride monuments and other classics for the victory + the WC at the end of the year.
Only one rider is one of the best from february till october, and for me that is Valverde.

Only Contador truly comes close (for me) for first place, because GT's are the toughest races in cycling and, as you said, Contador has been the greatest in GT's for the past decade(s). Rarely has he lost a GT when he showed up 100% and didn't crash or had some other bad luck. But because Valverde rides both GT's and classics as a contender, he's got the edge for me.
 
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