Rant about amature dopers

[BikeCentric]

A lot of these guys who DO train hard and watch what they eat also dope. It's disingenuous to think that those who dope on the amatuer level do so because they are lazy. Newsflash for you guys-PED's allow you to train even harder, so holding down a full-time job AND training like a maniac suddenly becomes easier.

I don't buy it man. You only need to train like 8 hours a week max to be Cat 3 pack fodder. I know from experience! Now if you want to be in the breaks and placing is when you need to bump it up to 12-18 hours per week. That's not a lot of time even with a full-time job. I honestly think at this level that carving out an extra 5ish hours a week is going to do WAY MORE for an amateur rider than playing with needles. And this is why I'll maintain that doping for amateurs is a lazy shortcut for d-bags. I'm talking pure amateurs by the way (3/4/5). Once someone is in the P/1/2 pack and they're actually going for a contract, things change.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Willy, I think Berzin thinks you're serious.

 

[Berzin]

I'm sorry but what's the point of your post? Everyone knows doping is part of cycling. Doping at the amateur level is for absolute losers. It just means you're too much of a chicken**** to play fair. Who cares if cycling is cliquish? If someone else in your group is doping, that doesn't somehow excuse you for doing it also. Just because there are other losers who cheat, doesn't mean the amateur-level doper isn't one.

My point is that I find it funny how some of you rant about something you know nothing about. So I clued you in to how the culture works. You learned something tonight despite yourselves.

If you're so outraged by amateurs cheating in cycling, then what exactly is being done to catch them when drug testing is almost non-existent?

My advice to you and anyone else who thinks like you is to stop with the self-righteous whining and ride the bike because you love to do so. Stop throwing stones at other's perceived personality defects. It doesn't make it OK to cheat, but neither does it make it OK for others to whine about it.

Once you start competing, you have to come to the realization that you will be racing against guys who cheat and will more than likely never get caught. If you don't like it, then don't race.

Lance Armstrong is the biggest doper in modern-day cycling. He has enriched himself like no the cyclist on Earth has or ever will. He is a hero to millions. And he will never get caught.

Just like that so-called pathetic excuse for a human being who keeps beating you up every hill and on every five dollar sprint prim. I don't like either scenario, but that's life whether you like it or not. Time to get over it and move on.

 

[BikeCentric]

My point is that I find it funny how some of you rant about something you know nothing about. So I clued you in to how the culture works. You learned something tonight despite yourselves.

If you're so outraged by amateurs cheating in cycling, then what exactly is being done to catch them when drug testing is almost non-existent?

My advice to you and anyone else who thinks like you is to stop with the self-righteous whining and ride the bike because you love to do so. Stop throwing stones at other's perceived personality defects. It doesn't make it OK to cheat, but neither does it make it OK for others to whine about it.

Once you start competing, you have to come to the realization that you will be racing against guys who cheat and will more than likely never get caught. If you don't like it, then don't race.

Lance Armstrong is the biggest doper in modern-day cycling. He has enriched himself like no the cyclist on Earth has or ever will. He is a hero to millions. And he will never get caught.

Just like that so-called pathetic excuse for a human being who keeps beating you up every hill and on every five dollar sprint prim. I don't like either scenario, but that's life whether you like it or not. Time to get over it and move on.

But what if I still want to race because I love to while also ranting and whining about doping? YOU CAN'T STOP ME!!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

My point is that I find it funny how some of you rant about something you know nothing about. So I clued you in to how the culture works. You learned something tonight despite yourselves.

If you're so outraged by amateurs cheating in cycling, then what exactly is being done to catch them when drug testing is almost non-existent?

My advice to you and anyone else who thinks like you is to stop with the self-righteous whining and ride the bike because you love to do so. Stop throwing stones at other's perceived personality defects. It doesn't make it OK to cheat, but neither does it make it OK for others to whine about it.

Once you start competing, you have to come to the realization that you will be racing against guys who cheat and will more than likely never get caught. If you don't like it, then don't race.

Lance Armstrong is the biggest doper in modern-day cycling. He has enriched himself like no the cyclist on Earth has or ever will. He is a hero to millions. And he will never get caught.

Just like that so-called pathetic excuse for a human being who keeps beating you up every hill and on every five dollar sprint prim. I don't like either scenario, but that's life whether you like it or not. Time to get over it and move on.

Actually, all you did was waste bandwidth. You didn't clue anyone to anything. You just regurgitated the obvious and went off on a tangent.
What knowledge did you add? You think we don't know there's doping at the amateur level? Seriously, you sound like a doper yourself. Maybe you're the guy who dopes and rocks 24th place in the local crit. Congrats. Hope that helps out your self-esteem.

 

[Hugh Januss]

My point is that I find it funny how some of you rant about something you know nothing about. So I clued you in to how the culture works. You learned something tonight despite yourselves.

If you're so outraged by amateurs cheating in cycling, then what exactly is being done to catch them when drug testing is almost non-existent?

My advice to you and anyone else who thinks like you is to stop with the self-righteous whining and ride the bike because you love to do so. Stop throwing stones at other's perceived personality defects. It doesn't make it OK to cheat, but neither does it make it OK for others to whine about it.

Once you start competing, you have to come to the realization that you will be racing against guys who cheat and will more than likely never get caught. If you don't like it, then don't race.

Lance Armstrong is the biggest doper in modern-day cycling. He has enriched himself like no the cyclist on Earth has or ever will. He is a hero to millions. And he will never get caught.

Just like that so-called pathetic excuse for a human being who keeps beating you up every hill and on every five dollar sprint prim. I don't like either scenario, but that's life whether you like it or not. Time to get over it and move on.

The problem is the ones who dope not the ones who complain, you can not condemn both equally. The "if you don't like it don't race" attitude is BS.

 

[twodimensional]

My advice to you and anyone else who thinks like you is to stop with the self-righteous whining and ride the bike because you love to do so. Stop throwing stones at other's perceived personality defects. It doesn't make it OK to cheat, but neither does it make it OK for others to whine about it.

You seem to be confused about how this whole civil society thing works. Let me clue you in:

It is NOT OK to break the rules.
It IS OK to put down those who do cheat or act in any other way like an antisocial douchebag.

If someone cheats at the expense of those who play by the rules then he deserves everything that's said about him. Telling us not to speak our minds about it because 'things like that happen' is just some vague bullshit that does nothing except exonerate the cheater.

 

[sars1981]

I blood dope before my bi-weekly game of squash with my sister-in-law.

 

[Anonymous]

My point is that I find it funny how some of you rant about something you know nothing about. So I clued you in to how the culture works. You learned something tonight despite yourselves.

Yea, because nobody here has raced on an amateur level...what a douchebag. Got some guilt you need to cover? Don't answer, we already know.

 

[eljimberino]

I blood dope before my bi-weekly game of squash with my sister-in-law.

Do you pound her face into the pavement during or after your mid-November tournaments?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Once you start competing, you have to come to the realization that you will be racing against guys who cheat...

You have a lot of informative posts from the trenches, but I'm not sure who the heck you're talking about here? You're painting us with a really wide brush, like we're all 30 year old Cat 5's, suddenly realizing we're never going to race in Europe or something, and decided to come on here and whine about pro dopers.

I'm so damned old for example, I gave up amateur racing before EPO even existed. So what color am I painted in the picture you see here?

 

[Oldman]

Great post. This has helped me with a real life situation I've been dealing with recently.

My teenage son has a lot of homework to do and he runs track/cross-country. He wants to get better, but doesn't have the time to properly train and recover. He got in touch with someone at the local meatfest gym and was taking a "shortcut". I found out about it this week and was pretty upset at first, but after reading your post I realize that in the 'grand scheme of things' it doesn't really matter. After all, my neighbor probably cheats on his taxes, and he's a nice guy (we have cookouts together all the time), so why should I be that upset that my son is cheating, too. It's just human nature!
Thanks Berzin

I wouldn't tell any parent how to raise their kid and you have to forgive youthful shortcuts, particularly when they don't harm someone else and lessons get learned.
Sports, however, are rule driven to rise above what you accept as human nature. To tolerate it within the ranks of fellow competitors means you don't value the effort you put into it. If enough take that course-there is no sport, no game, no competition. Because amateurs/masters participate in what is a kid's game they should lighten up a little but stay informed. That's not the same is being tolerant.
For those of us that have had to race against cheats; it happens. I'll do what I can to stop someone from doing it. I can't do much about those already willing to cheat unless they slip up and get caught. Then they hopefully will learn from it or move on.

 

[TarmacExpert]

Is it really helpful to continually promote the view that large numbers of people in amateur sport are doping? The more people believe this to be the case, the more people will feel inclined to dope themselves to "level the playing field" because "it's what everyone else is doing".

Perhaps I'm naive, but I find it hard to believe a significant proportion of amateurs are doping. Unless you're going to win an Olympic medal or something, what is the point? Does it really matter if you could take some drugs and move up from being the 1050th best cyclist in the country to being the 1000th best?

 

[Oldman]

Is it really helpful to continually promote the view that large numbers of people in amateur sport are doping? The more people believe this to be the case, the more people will feel inclined to dope themselves to "level the playing field" because "it's what everyone else is doing".

Perhaps I'm naive, but I find it hard to believe a significant proportion of amateurs are doping. Unless you're going to win an Olympic medal or something, what is the point? Does it really matter if you could take some drugs and move up from being the 1050th best cyclist in the country to being the 1000th best?

The discussion doesn't promote much but the accurate view that a few amateurs are doing it. That any amateurs, particularly those that lack the genes or the work eithc are doing it to gain an edge isn't acceptable and the fact that some are being caught is a reality. Being an amateur I can't fixate on it because my career doesn't depend on it. Young, talented riders will be eventually exposed to PED's, as was pointed out earlier. Discouraging use by those atheletes is always worth discussion.

 

[Aus_Orca]

I think south park said it best guys!

"mmm drugs are bad mm'kay"

 

[hollywood]

If FRS can publish a study that shows it (quercetin) can raise your FTP 10%, and you gobble it up hoping to get 10% more FTP, then how is that different than a rider using EPO to try and gain 10% on his FTP? You want the same result, you both are doing something outside of training to get it. Your mentalities are exactly the same.

In order to stop the doping, we all must stop using ANYTHING other than training and rest as a means for making fitness progress. Because once you give in and use ANYTHING to try to push yourself beyond your natural limits, you are no better than the guy using corticos, testosterone, hgh, epo, plasma expanders, hboc's, stored blood, etc that is trying to do the same thing. Same mentality, different products.

I'd also like to add, if you are in this thread casting a stone at amateur dopers, and you have ever tried a supplement or vitamin to give yourself an edge, then you my friend are a hypocrite.

One other thing... The first person who says "but my optygen/creatine/etc is legal, epo isn't" is 1) a dumbarse for buying optygen/creatine/etc thinking it will do much if anything and 2) want's something for nothing and 3) has the exact same doping mentality that got us here in the first place.

 

[Oldman]

If FRS can publish a study that shows it (quercetin) can raise your FTP 10%, and you gobble it up hoping to get 10% more FTP, then how is that different than a rider using EPO to try and gain 10% on his FTP? You want the same result, you both are doing something outside of training to get it. Your mentalities are exactly the same.

In order to stop the doping, we all must stop using ANYTHING other than training and rest as a means for making fitness progress. Because once you give in and use ANYTHING to try to push yourself beyond your natural limits, you are no better than the guy using corticos, testosterone, hgh, epo, plasma expanders, hboc's, stored blood, etc that is trying to do the same thing. Same mentality, different products.

I'd also like to add, if you are in this thread casting a stone at amateur dopers, and you have ever tried a supplement or vitamin to give yourself an edge, then you my friend are a hypocrite.

One other thing... The first person who says "but my optygen/creatine/etc is legal, epo isn't" is 1) a dumbarse for buying optygen/creatine/etc thinking it will do much if anything and 2) want's something for nothing and 3) has the exact same doping mentality that got us here in the first place.

+1. Spending years of mistakes and training I've got to agree. You can get almost anything you legitimately need from food and rest. I do like coffee and sugar (cause I like the taste) but can't say I've ever benefitted from vitamins or other supplements with the exception of electrolyte drinks on a hot day. Even then; I'm not sure if anything was gained. I am sure the $$$billion supplement industry and every hack that is draining money from cyclists as a "trainer" will disagree but you raise a good point.

 

[BigBoat]

Hollywood makes a valid point.....BUT

Often times, all poor guys need to do is to cut their training hours in half to get more sustainable watts. Spend more time with loved ones and less on the bike...

There are lots of ways and "veys" to get better...But if you have a conscience then its easy to distinquish between right and wrong. Would you share training advice with the local group? Would you share doping advice with the local group? Even sociopaths are able to determine whats appropriate and whats not. Thats why they are so "snakey" and "coniving."

 

[hollywood]

do you rely on the usada or wada to be your conscious? Does something have to be illegal to be 'wrong' to use? Then are all illegal things 'wrong' to use in your mind? Personally, I believe the usada, wada, and uci are all dirty. The pharmaceutical companies own the WHO, and make billions of dollars using them as a puppet. The fda gets pressured all the time to pass laws in favor of the companies that pad their pockets. Why should I believe that the uci or wada are any different?

Dope, or don't. Supplement or don't. Buy bling aero wheels that a select few can afford, or don't. Buy a tt bike and spend 3 hours with john cobb, or don't. Let a corrupt agency make the decisions for you, or don't. Remain sheltered on a forum of that believe everyone should conform to the way you think, or don't. Your choice

 

[buckwheat]

If FRS can publish a study that shows it (quercetin) can raise your FTP 10%, and you gobble it up hoping to get 10% more FTP, then how is that different than a rider using EPO to try and gain 10% on his FTP? You want the same result, you both are doing something outside of training to get it. Your mentalities are exactly the same.

In order to stop the doping, we all must stop using ANYTHING other than training and rest as a means for making fitness progress. Because once you give in and use ANYTHING to try to push yourself beyond your natural limits, you are no better than the guy using corticos, testosterone, hgh, epo, plasma expanders, hboc's, stored blood, etc that is trying to do the same thing. Same mentality, different products.

I'd also like to add, if you are in this thread casting a stone at amateur dopers, and you have ever tried a supplement or vitamin to give yourself an edge, then you my friend are a hypocrite.

One other thing... The first person who says "but my optygen/creatine/etc is legal, epo isn't" is 1) a dumbarse for buying optygen/creatine/etc thinking it will do much if anything and 2) want's something for nothing and 3) has the exact same doping mentality that got us here in the first place.

I take a Centrum pretty regularly in the morning. Are they banned?

I got an implant in my jaw for a crown and am taking calcium tablets in hopes it may helf the bone heal faster.

What say you?

 

[Oldman]

I take a Centrum pretty regularly in the morning. Are they banned?

I got an implant in my jaw for a crown and am taking calcium tablets in hopes it may helf the bone heal faster.

What say you?

Always keep the bone. It's all you have to remember your mispent youth when you're done doing all the fun things. We are talking about the same thing.

(my first facey usage)

 

[Ripper]

In order to stop the doping, we all must stop using ANYTHING other than training and rest as a means for making fitness progress. Because once you give in and use ANYTHING to try to push yourself beyond your natural limits, you are no better than the guy using corticos, testosterone, hgh, epo, plasma expanders, hboc's, stored blood, etc that is trying to do the same thing. Same mentality, different products.

Oh I love this argument - if you take anything to give you an edge, you have the same mentality as a doper. If you drink coffee for any kind of performance improvement (even getting up and getting going), you are the same as an EPO user. Take a vitamin for athletes or drink Cytomax rather than water ... you might as well blood dope. This sort of absolutist thinking can seem OK when it is what fits your world view, otherwise it's complete bullsh*t.

Just saying that my opinion of your opinion is that your opinion is BS.

 

[Escarabajo]

...

In order to stop the doping, we all must stop using ANYTHING other than training and rest as a means for making fitness progress. Because once you give in and use ANYTHING to try to push yourself beyond your natural limits, you are no better than the guy using corticos, testosterone, hgh, epo, plasma expanders, hboc's, stored blood, etc that is trying to do the same thing. Same mentality, different products.

...

-1.

I certainly don't agree with this argument. I take vitamins and drink coffee as a good Colombian. Now I am the same as those riders jacked with EPO?????

 

[Willy_Voet]

-1.

I certainly don't agree with this argument. I take vitamins and drink coffee as a good Colombian. Now I am the same as those riders jacked with EPO?????

If you want to get better, then you are as bad as them.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Folks, the one sip of java puts you in the same category as Richard Virenque.
Right, hollywood?

Seriously, WTF?

I drink coffee, but that certainly has nothing to do with wanting to improve my cycling. It wakes my a$$ up every morning.