Rate the 2011 tour de france route (new thread)

[Descender]

Sounds good to me

Pathetic... People like you are killing cycling.

 

[Mich78BEL]

Point is, ITT's are boring, period. Climbers will be attacking regardless. You do know they have to gain time on the other climbers don't you? If there are mountains, there will be attacks-- you don't need two long ITT's to induce them.

i don't find ITT's boring, to me its pure cycling, man against man, whoever can ride the fastest, no tactics, just giving it 100 %

 

[Altitude]

Pathetic... People like you are killing cycling.

Haha.. I think that's extreme. Anyhow judging by this poll it looks as though most people are in favor of less TT/more mountains.

 

[The Hitch]

For the record, i find tts boring most of the time. But in the Tour I find them entertaining because they are so important, and when the top 5 go one after another, you can see places at the top overlapping. Like 09 Wigo Lance Kloeden Frank all so close to eachother. Lance and Wiggins overtook Frank, Kloeden just missed. The hill and the intermediate checkpoint at the top of the hill with good crowds also made it more interesting than the pan flat one this year. The Annency tt was the best stage of 09.

They should have a tt earlier so that you see
1 battle for yellow
2 battle for stage
3 battle between gc guys.

When its a prologue 1 and 2 are the same thing.
When its at the end 2 and 3 are the same thing.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Oh right, and what about riders with strong ITT abilities who climb reasonably well a la Menchov or Evans? To hell with them right? Let the GTs be a climbers thing, screw the rest!

That would be the Menchov who won the 2009 Giro and 2007 Vuelta by taking the uber long ITTs and then followed wheels for the rest of each race?

The trend towards less trialing is actually very recent. The trialists, on the other hand, have enjoyed years of prosperity, with top heavy trialing tours.
For many years it was to hell with the climbers. So what if the pendulum has swung the other way for a while?

The organisers will suck it and see. If the lesser trialing doesn't make for more exciting tours, the old fad of 100+Km of trialing will return.

 

[Descender]

That would be the Menchov who won the 2009 Giro and 2007 Vuelta by taking the uber long ITTs and then followed wheels for the rest of each race?

The trend towards less trialing is actually very recent. The trialists, on the other hand, have enjoyed years of prosperity, with top heavy trialing tours.
For many years it was to hell with the climbers. So what if the pendulum has swung the other way for a while?

The organisers will suck it and see. If the lesser trialing doesn't make for more exciting tours, the old fad of 100+Km of trialing will return.

The 07 Vuelta was the worst designed GT in decades. The mountains there were laughable. The 09 Giro however saw some crazy mountain stages, with riders like Sastre or Pellizzotti having to attack to gain back the time lost. Menchov followed wheels, yes, but he wasn't the only rider in that Giro.

Let's forget about the American, who dominated both the mountains and TTs. Let's go back to Indurain years or 97. Are you going to tell me that the mountains back then were more boring than they were in this year's Tour or Vuelta?? Back then there was show for hours and hours in a single mountain stage, because the Chiapucci's and Pantani's had to pull back the time lost in the TTs. Now we have youtube cycling in the mountains, movement only in the last kms...

A GT should be balanced, and give chances to win it to powerful riders and climbers. As it is, we will never see Tony Martin try and improve uphill, seeing as GT parcourses are so ridiculously unbalanced in his detriment (that was only an example).

 

[Descender]

Haha.. I think that's extreme. Anyhow judging by this poll it looks as though most people are in favor of less TT/more mountains.

They all have no clue, or are probably too young to know what real cycling was.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I was going to rate it a 4, but on closer inspection give it a 6.

No time bonus' is disappointing.

Only 41 kms of individual time trialling even more so.

But the 4 MTF stages all look good, especially the Belle (with 5 cols) and Galibier ones.

And I like the variety with having an extra short stage of 109 kms (to the Alp). A greater mix in the distances of stages would be better.

Maybe the early parts of this tour will not be too boring? The 1st and 4th stages apparently finish on minor uphills, which should make for exciting racing, and stage 8 might be good. Below is a link to the stage from 2008 which finished on the same climb.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=stages/tour086

Considering that 2010 and 2011 are paying homage to the mountains, hopefully 2012 is the opposite. I'd like to see a short prologue, a 40 km ITT about stage 5 with a small climb, then the first section of mountains with only one significant stage, the second section has two significant ones - but one of those is a MTT, and then finish with a 50 km flat time trial.

Give ITT specialists more of a chance and have the climbers go all out in their terrain for more than just the final few kms.

 

[Boeing]

Lil Cadel got to re do his homework!

 

[Boeing]

4/10

Same old same old.

as in group tempo ride to the hills

 

[ferryman]

A 7 from me just as per the, not so hard really to understand, Epic-Fail poll

BUT it is clear that this route was designed with a Contador v's Schleck mark 2 showdown in mind. Without Contador my 7 falls to a 6 as boy Schleck will cruise it, with him an 8 or maybe 9 IF it pans out as planned.

 

[blaxland]

5/10 its going to be another bore,until the second week...Definentley need more TT kms.Andy Schleck's race to loose.(if no Contador)

 

[karlboss]

If Contador were racing I'd rate it 7 but as he won't be only a 5. We'll watch Andy routinely take a little time out of other climbers, and a few TTers hang tough to make up time in the ITT. Andy will win and though the time gaps will be small it will be a foregone conclusion.

 

[bobs nob]

So IF Andy wins and IF a test turns up a positive during or after the tour, what do the governing body(s) do about it? 3 doping winners in 5 years and 10 of the last 12 tdf's (or is it t'sdf ?) after Armstrong's house of cards comes down, not to mention the '07 debacle of removing the mj from the race.

And it goes back way beyond my time observing or even riding: If you include AC's 2007 win you could call it 11 of 12 with the squeaky clean Sastre being our innocent hero of the past decade ROLLEYES, and then there is 1998, 13 years ago, pantani (and festina just saying the 2 were in the same year) 14 years ago Ullrich, 15 years Riis.

I doubt it will ever stop, but doping seems to me to be intrinsic to the sport and do any of you see that as a problem?

NOTE:Going off topic isn't part of my religion, it IS my religion....
Sorry if this is rambling and incoherent, (which ought to be the preface for 100% of my posts and 90% of everyone else's) I have taken 2 benadryls and am off to bed. I know, TMI.

 

[crocycling]

around 7-8 for me. Misses two things, time trial and steep mtf or last climb(chat, granon), And of course cobbles but we all knew that this year they won't be on the menu

 

[Christian]

The TT this year was great entertainment. For a little while it seemed like Schleck was on the verge of the absolute sensation, then Contador slowly started taking back second by second. Great stuff.

Next year the TT will be at a similar time, similar amount of Km's, haven't seen the profile yet. If there is a similar situation like this year (2 riders within a minute, or even more depending on which riders) we'll be likely to see that again.

So I think one shouldn't be too negative about this route, I think there is a good chance that it will be a similar situation as this year!

 

[Aguirre]

the rate of next TdF makes me think about the audience in this forum,
the worst TdF parcours of the history, an insult to the history of the race is rated as 7, 8, points.

I think ASO is puting themselves in the same way Torriani was to make Giros for Saronni and Moser, thought the "grandeur" of TdF was in making parcours not having anyone in mind, just balanced, hard routes for fondists.
Not jokes like next years

 

[roundabout]

The TT this year was great entertainment. For a little while it seemed like Schleck was on the verge of the absolute sensation, then Contador slowly started taking back second by second. Great stuff.

Next year the TT will be at a similar time, similar amount of Km's, haven't seen the profile yet. If there is a similar situation like this year (2 riders within a minute, or even more depending on which riders) we'll be likely to see that again.

So I think one shouldn't be too negative about this route, I think there is a good chance that it will be a similar situation as this year!

The TT in Grenoble won't be flat. There should be about 500 vertical meters over 2 climbs

 

[The Hitch]

So IF Andy wins and IF a test turns up a positive during or after the tour, what do the governing body(s) do about it? 3 doping winners in 5 years and 10 of the last 12 tdf's (or is it t'sdf ?) after Armstrong's house of cards comes down, not to mention the '07 debacle of removing the mj from the race.

And it goes back way beyond my time observing or even riding: If you include AC's 2007 win you could call it 11 of 12 with the squeaky clean Sastre being our innocent hero of the past decade ROLLEYES, and then there is 1998, 13 years ago, pantani (and festina just saying the 2 were in the same year) 14 years ago Ullrich, 15 years Riis.

I doubt it will ever stop, but doping seems to me to be intrinsic to the sport and do any of you see that as a problem?

NOTE:Going off topic isn't part of my religion, it IS my religion....
Sorry if this is rambling and incoherent, (which ought to be the preface for 100% of my posts and 90% of everyone else's) I have taken 2 benadryls and am off to bed. I know, TMI.

1 This should be in the clinic.
2 Its not only our thing that has this problem.

 

[Cobblestoned]

So IF Andy wins and IF a test turns up a positive during or after the tour, what do the governing body(s) do about it? 3 doping winners in 5 years and 10 of the last 12 tdf's (or is it t'sdf ?) after Armstrong's house of cards comes down, not to mention the '07 debacle of removing the mj from the race.

And it goes back way beyond my time observing or even riding: If you include AC's 2007 win you could call it 11 of 12 with the squeaky clean Sastre being our innocent hero of the past decade ROLLEYES, and then there is 1998, 13 years ago, pantani (and festina just saying the 2 were in the same year) 14 years ago Ullrich, 15 years Riis.

I doubt it will ever stop, but doping seems to me to be intrinsic to the sport and do any of you see that as a problem?

NOTE:Going off topic isn't part of my religion, it IS my religion....
Sorry if this is rambling and incoherent, (which ought to be the preface for 100% of my posts and 90% of everyone else's) I have taken 2 benadryls and am off to bed. I know, TMI.

Please never mention that in this way again.

Now I feel old again and fall back into my mid-30 crisis

 

[ferryman]

the rate of next TdF makes me think about the audience in this forum,
the worst TdF parcours of the history, an insult to the history of the race is rated as 7, 8, points.

I think ASO is puting themselves in the same way Torriani was to make Giros for Saronni and Moser, thought the "grandeur" of TdF was in making parcours not having anyone in mind, just balanced, hard routes for fondists.
Not jokes like next years

Over the top I think but I agree that a 2nd pan flat ITT instead of the TTT would have been fairer for the second strung podium contenders.

I respect and admire your passion though

 

[Descender]

the rate of next TdF makes me think about the audience in this forum,
the worst TdF parcours of the history, an insult to the history of the race is rated as 7, 8, points.

I think ASO is puting themselves in the same way Torriani was to make Giros for Saronni and Moser, thought the "grandeur" of TdF was in making parcours not having anyone in mind, just balanced, hard routes for fondists.
Not jokes like next years

Indeed!

Hate to say it but the level of cycling knowledge in this forum is appalling compared to forums in other languages...

 

[Mellow Velo]

Indeed!

Hate to say it but the level of cycling knowledge in this forum is appalling compared to forums in other languages...

Well, I for one didn't give the parcours are 7 or 8 and don't think the route is particularly good.
However, even though I disagree with those who have, I wouldn't berate other's cycling knowledge for holding a different viewpoint.
The Dutch seem to find this forum sufficiently clued up, to take part, so I wonder to which "super forums" you are referring.

I understand that you are unhappy, specifically in terms of the ITTing and note your reference to Pantani and Chiapucci, during the Indurain years.
However, I would point out that while these riders produced a number terrifically exciting rides, they never actually got that close to dethroning Big Mig, given his gains against the clock.
So one could make an argument against such trialing distances being included every year.

 

[The Hitch]

the rate of next TdF makes me think about the audience in this forum,
the worst TdF parcours of the history, an insult to the history of the race is rated as 7, 8, points.

I think ASO is puting themselves in the same way Torriani was to make Giros for Saronni and Moser, thought the "grandeur" of TdF was in making parcours not having anyone in mind, just balanced, hard routes for fondists.
Not jokes like next years

Indeed!

Hate to say it but the level of cycling knowledge in this forum is appalling compared to forums in other languages...

You guys do realise this is a matter of taste, right

Its like saying people are idiots because they think bananas are better than apples.

I like mountains. I Like Mountain top finishes. I like tts but mountains are more important to me. For me this is therefore a good course. But from what you say this makes me stupid.

If we are arguing, for example, who is better at climbing, Andy Schleck or Andre Greipel, and i say Andre Greipel, then you can point to Andy Schlecks mountain wins, and tell me im an idiot.

But if I and others say, that we like a course with 2 HC Mountain top finishes (compared to just the one last year and the year before,) is that really reason enough to question our cycling knowledge?

 

[Descender]

Well, I for one didn't give the parcours are 7 or 8 and don't think the route is particularly good.
However, even though I disagree with those who have, I wouldn't berate other's cycling knowledge for holding a different viewpoint.
The Dutch seem to find this forum sufficiently clued up, to take part, so I wonder to which "super forums" you are referring.

http://forum.cicloweb.it/forumdisplay.php?fid=4

http://forodeciclismo.mforos.com/30984-el-salon-ciclismo-de-carretera-masculino-profesional/

Those two places are packed with people with endless knowledge about cycling, real knowledge.

I don't criticise others for holding a different point of view, I'm saying that by holding that point of view, they are revealing they know little about cycling. Saying "I prefer the Roubaix to Lombardy" is a matter of taste, saying this is a good TdF parcours is an insult to the history and the very essence of this sport.

I understand that you are unhappy, specifically in terms of the ITTing and note your reference to Pantani and Chiapucci, during the Indurain years.
However, I would point out that while these riders produced a number terrifically exciting rides, they never actually got that close to dethroning Big Mig, given his gains against the clock.
So one could make an argument against such trialing distances being included every year.

Fact is, the MOUNTAINS back then were a lot more exciting and produced significantly more hours of attacking racing than the mickey mouse mountain stages these days. And Indurain was one of a kind, possibly the best TT rider of all time. Riders like him are the exception rather than the rule.

I follow my point in the following message.