Rate the 2012 Tour route

[Magnus]

The other problem with so many flat stages is crashes and favourites. Like this year they eliminate themselves from the tension and the want to stay close to the front with classic/one day styled riders. It will end in tears again for most.

From 2001-2011 there has been 9 or 10 flat stages every year (except for 2001 with 11 and 2004 with 12) so it's not that there're many flat stages compared to previous years.

 

[apmfbs]

My rate is a 6.
The pyreness are really dissapointing.
Two good and long stages in Pyrenees and my rate would be 8.

Good news: porrentruy and boulogne sur mer ( and the CRIs)

 

[barmaher]

A marginal thumbs up from me 6/10.

I think all that the Tour is missing is the stage to PSM instead of the stage to Pau. Would that have been where it would have been? The last few Tours had the balance of ITT to MTF too much one way, this has it too much the other way.

Plus:
The first week looks good.
Lots of time trial kilometres.
Visiting lesser known climbs.
The lack of though MTF may perversely make the climbs all contested at full gun. Stages like the Pyrennees in the 2010 Tour will hopefully be eliminated.


Minus:
I don't like the way a time trial is the decisive finale; I would prefer ITT on the Thursday, with a hilly or MTF on the Saturday.
Too many pure flat stages; eight is too many, but some of those could have a surprise cat 3 near the end.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's an 8.

The great news is that the pure climbers aren't going to have the victory handed to them. Or in Andy Schleck's case, second place handed to them.

The pacing of the definitive stages is much better than in recent years as is the amount of time-trialling. maybe we'll even see attacks from further out than the last few Kms of a climb on this one.

It's a clear improvement on recent Tours so gets an 8.

Too bad Cavendish gets 10 stage wins handed to him. But why be consistent in your opinions?

 

[Azabael]

A 3 for me.

This course reminds me of 2009's tour de suisse. I know they were desperate to hand Cancellara the victory. I do wonder what their hidden agenda is for this move. Do they really just want a diversity in the Tour's winners?

I simply don't get it. Why change something that is good. (not saying I'm satisfied with the Tour's last editions)

It's like changing the ingredients of Coca Cola, because you want people who don't like the original to enjoy Cola too. Frankly silly.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

A 3 for me.

This course reminds me of 2009's tour de suisse. I know they were desperate to hand Cancellara the victory. I do wonder what their hidden agenda is for this move. Do they really just want a diversity in the Tour's winners?

I simply don't get it. Why change something that is good. (not saying I'm satisfied with the Tour's last editions)

It's like changing the ingredients of Coca Cola, because you want people who don't like the original to enjoy Cola too. Frankly silly.

They did change what was good - a Grand Tour which is one by the best Allrounder - to a something that almost only specialist could win. 96 kilometers of time trialing is the lowest it should get in a GT.

I am mainly happy with the course just for that reason, they brought some of the GT spirit back to the GTs.

The last years of MTF overkill let me to realise that the number of MTFs is vastly overrated. I'd like to see less flat stages though.... but I guess that won't change for a while. I'm hoping that Greipel and Kittel, with the help of some others will take care of Cav.

In general the quality of the Tour, as has been said before, will depand on wheather the TT kilometers and their placing within the course will animate the race or not. Considering that we saw some shades of real road cycling this year again I'm actually pretty hopefull that this will be the case.

Overall I guess the course does suit Evans the best, as he is probably the best Allrounder in the Peloton right now.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Annonay stage makes Tarbes '09 look good. Foix is awful, the queen stages are too short, Grand-Colombier is too far from the finish, and the Pyrenées are oh so predictable yet again. Aspin, check. Tourmalet, check. Aubisque, check. Peyresourde, check. Something different PLEASE. And once more, we have next to no proper mountain stages and they STILL put a flat stage on the penultimate weekend?

On the plus side, the Porrentruy stage is very good, and they have put some selective stages in the first two weeks, which is a step up on 2011.

But it is very 2009 Tour de Suisse, or 2011 Paris-Nice. All about handing the time triallists the win. You could argue that they did their best to hand it to climbers recently and are redressing that, but two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Voted 3. I think 4 is more appropriate, but I gave 4 to the Giro route, and that was better than this.

 

[Magnus]

Foix is awful,

Porrentruy stage is very good,

Why?

At Porrentruy there're approx 10 km flat after the last descent, At Foix there're 20 km flat after the last descent but after a considerably tougher last climb.

 

[Descender]

A 3 for me.

This course reminds me of 2009's tour de suisse. I know they were desperate to hand Cancellara the victory. I do wonder what their hidden agenda is for this move. Do they really just want a diversity in the Tour's winners?

I simply don't get it. Why change something that is good. (not saying I'm satisfied with the Tour's last editions)

It's like changing the ingredients of Coca Cola, because you want people who don't like the original to enjoy Cola too. Frankly silly.

We might have asked the same question after 2007.

 

[Descender]

It's an 8 for me. It has big flaws, but this is the concept of GT I support.

Pros:

- Balanced route at last! Good amount of ITT kms.
- No TTT.
- Varied first half. Something very un-Tour like.
- Mix of mountain stages, descent stages and MTFs. Climbs are generally well linked. Climbers won't be spoiled like these past years and will have to take advantage of every inch of terrain that favours them (just like TTlists do!).

Cons:
-Bad disposition of stages. Descent stages should come AFTER the MTFs.
-Why the unnecessary flat terrain after Peguere in the Foix stage??
-Luchon stage ought to include Ancizan-Azet-Peyresourde, Aspin-Peyresourde is not ideal.
-Mountain stages too short.

 

[Azabael]

They did change what was good - a Grand Tour which is one by the best Allrounder - to a something that almost only specialist could win. 96 kilometers of time trialing is the lowest it should get in a GT.

I am mainly happy with the course just for that reason, they brought some of the GT spirit back to the GTs.

The last years of MTF overkill let me to realise that the number of MTFs is vastly overrated. I'd like to see less flat stages though.... but I guess that won't change for a while. I'm hoping that Greipel and Kittel, with the help of some others will take care of Cav.

In general the quality of the Tour, as has been said before, will depand on wheather the TT kilometers and their placing within the course will animate the race or not. Considering that we saw some shades of real road cycling this year again I'm actually pretty hopefull that this will be the case.

Overall I guess the course does suit Evans the best, as he is probably the best Allrounder in the Peloton right now.

Well, it's highly subjective to state what a GT should be like. That's your opinion and I respect that. Personally I enjoy mountaintop finishes in stages that have been so tough that only an elite group starts the last climb together. A man to man race from there on. No waiting till the final 3 kilometers, 'cause you could blow yourself and thus your chances up'. When you get enough of such stages, 2 time trials won't affect the GC too much.

The GTs you picture, in case you find this one to be suitable, will only be worth tuning in for at the final 20/30 kilometers. Every damn stage, sir. I say No thank you to that.

 

[Descender]

Well, it's highly subjective to state what a GT should be like. That's your opinion and I respect that. Personally I enjoy mountaintop finishes in stages that have been so tough that only an elite group starts the last climb together. A man to man race from there on. No waiting till the final 3 kilometers, 'cause you could blow yourself and thus your chances up'. When you get enough of such stages, 2 time trials won't affect the GC too much.

The GTs you picture, in case you find this one to be suitable, will only be worth tuning in for at the final 20/30 kilometers. Every damn stage, sir. I say No thank you to that.

I'm sorry, what?

It's the way you say, but the other way around. MTFs are all about tuning in the last kms, because everything is decided there and only there.

On the other hand, if you have a descent after a big climb, or a softer climb as a MTF (a là Mortirolo-Aprica or Finestre-Sestriere), riders are normally forced to attack from farther away, hence we get more kms of action.

 

[roundabout]

We might have asked the same question after 2007.

2007 attacks from far that people seem to like/think cycling is about and the Tour like this is supposed to promote

1) Chicken - nobody took him really seriously but it may have had an effect of riding up to Tignes slightly harder

2) Contador on the Galibier - dropped some people like Menchov but himself gained zero time

3) Sastre on the stage to Aubisque - Rabo chasing caused carnage on the Marie-Blanque and made it a more selective stage but Sastre himself gained nothing

4) something on the Bales by the favorites? Or was it just strong tempo? Whatever.

Anyhow, it required time bonuses, a time penalty, some very good time trialing from one of the dominant climbers, freakishly good climbing gaining a minute on the rest very quickly on the Peyresourde and tailwind on the final TT to make the difference.

I don't see why people think 2007 was such a good route and it certainly wasn't great in terms of the *attacking from far* spectacle.

 

[Walkman]

2007 attacks from far that people seem to like/think cycling is about and the Tour like this is supposed to promote

1) Chicken - nobody took him really seriously but it may have had an effect of riding up to Tignes slightly harder

2) Contador on the Galibier - dropped some people like Menchov but himself gained zero time

3) Sastre on the stage to Aubisque - Rabo chasing caused carnage on the Marie-Blanque and made it a more selective stage but Sastre himself gained nothing

4) something on the Bales by the favorites? Or was it just strong tempo? Whatever.

Anyhow, it required time bonuses, a time penalty, some very good time trialing from one of the dominant climbers, freakishly good climbing gaining a minute on the rest very quickly on the Peyresourde and tailwind on the final TT to make the difference.

I don't see why people think 2007 was such a good route and it certainly wasn't great in terms of the *attacking from far* spectacle.

I think it was a great route because of the good amount of TT (about 100-110km), two ITT:s and a prolouge if I recall correctly. Also there was a good mix of mountains wich I did like even though I really missed some hilly stages such as Super-Besse (cause that was in 2008, right?).

 

[Descender]

2007 attacks from far that people seem to like/think cycling is about and the Tour like this is supposed to promote

1) Chicken - nobody took him really seriously but it may have had an effect of riding up to Tignes slightly harder

2) Contador on the Galibier - dropped some people like Menchov but himself gained zero time

3) Sastre on the stage to Aubisque - Rabo chasing caused carnage on the Marie-Blanque and made it a more selective stage but Sastre himself gained nothing

4) something on the Bales by the favorites? Or was it just strong tempo? Whatever.

Anyhow, it required time bonuses, a time penalty, some very good time trialing from one of the dominant climbers, freakishly good climbing gaining a minute on the rest very quickly on the Peyresourde and tailwind on the final TT to make the difference.

I don't see why people think 2007 was such a good route and it certainly wasn't great in terms of the *attacking from far* spectacle.

I don't think 2007 was a great route. The mountains above all were deficient.

I mentioned it as the last of the "classic" tours before the MTFs/ridiculous ITT kms galore.

 

[roundabout]

No, you mentioned it in the context of 2007 route being good enough to continue with the format.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Why?

At Porrentruy there're approx 10 km flat after the last descent, At Foix there're 20 km flat after the last descent but after a considerably tougher last climb.

Porrentruy is up and down all day, no rest for the riders until that last 10km - so even a short and relatively easy climb can create enough of a gap to create some good racing in the vein of the climax of Lombardia. Although, with the ITT the following day I'm guessing no GC man will be too willing to attack.

Foix is annoying because of that pointless loop. The final climb is much tougher, but there's only two real climbs in the stage and they could finish much closer to it. It's like they've tried to make sure any attacks on it are bound to fail unless it's just a breakaway stage and the heads of state just roll in together.

 

[jordan5000]

I bet Cav is smiling.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I must be blind or else missing a dozen nuance in a dozen stages.
To me, it appears to be a total cack of a course, unless you are a total, individual rider fanboy. (ITTers, dodgy climbers, getting a bit long in the tooth etc etc)
Example: Boulogne gets classed as a medium mountain stage.........without having the topography that qualifies to be called a mountain.

In short: it sucks.

At least now both the Giro and Tour cannot fail to exceed my expectations.
The ASO and RCS combine to drop the title "Grand" from their respective, 2012 races.

 

[Richeypen]

I bet Cav is smiling.

Why? This route is perfect for Wiggins

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Great course, I only think they should have included cobbles.

http://www.geox-tmc.com/index.php?o...ver-the-2012-tour-de-france&Itemid=38&lang=en

Nah. Terrible route, but would have been more interesting with cobbles. This route even gives Denis a chance.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Why? This route is perfect for Wiggins

He got those nice new teeth, may as well flaunt them.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Too bad Cavendish gets 10 stage wins handed to him. But why be consistent in your opinions?

Cavendish isn't the only sprinter in the race.

To be honest I haven't even looked at the flat stages. Even us Brits are starting to realise that winning a lot of stages doesn't mean you win the race.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Cavendish isn't the only sprinter in the race.

To be honest I haven't even looked at the flat stages. Even us Brits are starting to realise that winning a lot of stages doesn't mean you win the race.

He isn't but he is the best..so............