Rate the 2012 Tour route

[Tank Engine]

It is certainly different from the previous few. It's good that there's a TT before the Alps. I'd say that stages 7 and 8 won't have any real effect on GC, especially as they're followed by a TT (apart from attrition among some of the minor contenders and some stage hunters gaining some time and a shot at the yellow jersey). The Grand Columbier stage looks interesting. There's not a lot of flat in the last 50km and as a hard medium mountain stage might cause some surprises. I like short high mountain stages with hardly any flat (the stage to Alpe d'Huez this year was classic, one of my all time favourites was the Millar/Delgado/Mottet breakaway stage to Luz Ardiden in '89, 140km, 4 cols and Bob Millar attacking almost from the gun). Hence, Stage 11 gets the thumbs up. The Schlecks will be a few minutes down after the TT, so they'll know they have to attack here. Stage 14 could possibly be very interesting. The final climb is VERY steep by TdF standards, but as Libertine says, the distance to the end might quench the instinct to attack. Stage 16 is full of classic climbs with a saw tooth second half, finishing on a descent . Since stage 17 is the final mountain stage, it seems a little lacking on difficulty at the beginning, but there is definitely a nice one-two punch at the end and fatigue will probably lead to the peloton breaking up very early on the Port de Bailes. Overall, a nice balance, with some classic climbs and quite a few new ones (at least to the tour), which might cause some surprises. If there are a few bumps close to the finish in week 1 (e.g. Stages 1 and 4 look to be good candidates), then this could be a very good parcours

 

[Descender]

No, you mentioned it in the context of 2007 route being good enough to continue with the format.

I mentioned it in the context of a good format of tours, which shouldn't have been discontinued because as our friend said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Azabael]

I'm sorry, what?

It's the way you say, but the other way around. MTFs are all about tuning in the last kms, because everything is decided there and only there.

On the other hand, if you have a descent after a big climb, or a softer climb as a MTF (a là Mortirolo-Aprica or Finestre-Sestriere), riders are normally forced to attack from farther away, hence we get more kms of action.

I feel like you've ben watching different races than me. Take the extremely heavy mountain stages in the Giro this year. It happened quite often that the action was far before the last 3k in a MTF. For example, the stage in which Contador attacked extremely early. But that wasn't the only stage in which the field was shattered relatively early. This is exactly why I liked our old Giro boss Zomegnan and dislike the current approach for the Tour/Giro. The Tour has been utter rubbish for quite some years already though.

As a last note, I wonder if you really mean you tune in the very last bit in an MTF. I barely believed my eyes when I read that. Even when we see some attacks from '2nd rank' riders while the pace in the bunch is being kept high, I absolutely enjoy seeing riders struggle and fail to follow one by one, a true survival. I dare saying that the last bit is more enjoyable to watch when you have seen the bit before it. Else it's like only checking the scores of matches afterwards, or just some highlights/goals.

 

[auscyclefan94]

7/10 First two weeks are very good, last weeks mountains lack the killer MTF that will do the real damage.

My tip is Evans.

 

[Descender]

I feel like you've ben watching different races than me. Take the extremely heavy mountain stages in the Giro this year. It happened quite often that the action was far before the last 3k in a MTF. For example, the stage in which Contador attacked extremely early. But that wasn't the only stage in which the field was shattered relatively early. This is exactly why I liked our old Giro boss Zomegnan and dislike the current approach for the Tour/Giro. The Tour has been utter rubbish for quite some years already though.

As a last note, I wonder if you really mean you tune in the very last bit in an MTF. I barely believed my eyes when I read that. Even when we see some attacks from '2nd rank' riders while the pace in the bunch is being kept high, I absolutely enjoy seeing riders struggle and fail to follow one by one, a true survival. I dare saying that the last bit is more enjoyable to watch when you have seen the bit before it. Else it's like only checking the scores of matches afterwards, or just some highlights/goals.

In what stage did Contador attack extremely early in the Giro? I must have missed it.

I suppose it depends what your expectations and definition of action are. 2nd rate riders attacking is not real action in my view.

And yes, when I see a stage with a hard MTF, I almost never tune in before the final climb, because almost invariably everything happens there. And almost invariably, it's quite predictable stuff. Someone attacks and the others follow, everyone a bloc. No tactics involved, no skills. It's nice in some stages, but not in every single mountain stage.

 

[The Hitch]

Great course, I only think they should have included cobbles.

You do realise JVDB has no chance on this route

 

[roundabout]

I mentioned it in the context of a good format of tours, which shouldn't have been discontinued because as our friend said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I still don't get why 2007 is a good format while say 2008 isn't.

Oh right, a route biased to time-trialists will always be a better format in your eyes than a more balanced route such as 2008.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I gave it a six. I'll be honest. To me there is nothing more boring in cycling than an ITT. The only times they are remotely exciting is when there is a close gap between a few riders, and even then it's only exciting for the last three or so riders. I like prologues because they are bit more open, and anyone can win one, even sprinters. Having 90 kms of ITT without a true MTF is just boring. Had they added just one truly decisive mountain, it would be far more interesting. Maybe a cobbled stage?

Why isn't possible to create a balanced route? You'd think with a three week race, you can achieve the balance that's been lacking in recent years. If last year started with a long prologue (say 8km), it would have been nearly perfect.

 

[DenisMenchov]

You do realise JVDB has no chance on this route

Yes, I do, but I like a little change once in a while. Also this one suits Menchov(if he participate).

 

[cineteq]

8/10 Love it! Can't wait, just hope no crashes that eliminate half of the contenders.

 

[El Pistolero]

In what stage did Contador attack extremely early in the Giro? I must have missed it.

I suppose it depends what your expectations and definition of action are. 2nd rate riders attacking is not real action in my view.

And yes, when I see a stage with a hard MTF, I almost never tune in before the final climb, because almost invariably everything happens there. And almost invariably, it's quite predictable stuff. Someone attacks and the others follow, everyone a bloc. No tactics involved, no skills. It's nice in some stages, but not in every single mountain stage.

Gardeccia stage.

 

[guncha]

I started following TDF 15 years ago and to me it is the worst TDF route.

I am annoyed with the waste of big climbs in three stages (Bellegarde, Annonay, Foix). In case of Bellegarde, Foix HC/1st cat. climbs are located 40km before the finish. If we look at history of last 15 years we'll see that even Galibier 40km before the finish cannot make the difference in GC. In 2011 Abisque (about as hard as Colombier) was 42km before the finish in Lourdes and nothing happened. The only exception was in 2010 when Contador and Andy destroyed the field on Madelaine (HC) 32km before the finish in a hard stage with four big climbs. Stage to Annonay is as bad as stage to Tarbes in 2009. I am afraid nothing will happen during these three stages.

What is left then? Three high mountain stages: beautiful stage with MTF at La Touisure, beautiful stage with MTF at Peyragudes. I doubt classical finish in Luchon will create big gaps because final climb is not very difficult and it would be suicidal to attack on first three climbs. We also have medium mountains: MTF in Vosges and stage to Porrentruy.

I don't think it can be complete route with 2 high mountain MTF, 1 medium mountain MTF, 1 potential high mountain GC stage with decent, 1 medium mountain with decent which could make surprises, 0 HC MTFs. In order to make this route complete they had to make a stage with HC finish - possibly a showdown at Grand Colombier or to have a stage Samatan - ski resort near Pau (for instance, Hautacam or PSM).

Good things in this route (ITTkm, finishes at small hills in first week, medium mountain action in first week, great stages to Toussuire and Peyragudes) cannot compensate lack of GC stages in high mountains. With all this in mind I cannot give more than 4/10 to this route.

 

[luckyboy]

Good
More ITT than usual.
More interesting first 10 days.
No TTT.

Bad
Mountains don't look decisive enough.
Probably too much ITT considering the mountains.
Stages 12 & 14.
La Toussire & Peyragudes stages are too short.

Hoping Contador is there and hands it to everyone on La Planche du Belles Filles.

4/10

 

[Havetts]

Gardeccia stage.

Passo Fedaia wasnt really that early, it were Arroyo & Rodriguez firing the first shots on the Giau and then Nibali tried on the descent of the Giau..

 

[hfer07]

We know the Tour parcours is laid out two years in advance-but this one looks to me like the organizers designed it with someone in mind to win it..just saying......

about the Parcours? nothing exiting--they keep burning the same lame formula with all the action taking place in the last week- no surprises or change in terrain.....

 

[The Hitch]

Passo Fedaia wasnt really that early, it were Arroyo & Rodriguez firing the first shots on the Giau and then Nibali tried on the descent of the Giau..

Others probably remember this stage better than me since i was looking more on the forum (Moose Mcnuckles, Ferminal and others were really cracking the humour big time on that thread) but I think on Giau, Contador followed Purito and then went ahead of him for a few seconds which Pisti calls the attack. Nibali had to catch on on the descent, but once he did, he just said, "**** this" and carried on.

Could be wrong.

Not that the above is really any different from the scene you present.

 

[Parrulo]

Others probably remember this stage better than me since i was looking more on the forum (Moose Mcnuckles, Ferminal and others were really cracking the humour big time on that thread) but I think on Giau, Contador followed Purito and then went ahead of him for a few seconds which Pisti calls the attack. Nibali had to catch on on the descent, but once he did, he just said, "**** this" and carried on.

Could be wrong.

Not that the above is really any different from the scene you present.

you are right iirc

 

[Ragerod]

I gave the Giro a 6 and I'm doing the same for the Tour.

I like the amount of TT but it could do with a couple more mountain stages and a proper queen stage.

 

[Havetts]

Not trying to prove any of you wrong but this is how it happened :

When Katusha’s Joaquim Rodriguez and Movistar's David Arroyo moved off the front of the peloton it spurred the maglia rosa into action, with Contador following their wheels in addition to Scarponi, Anton, Denis Menchov (Geox-TMC), Nibali and Roman Kreuziger (Astana) to form an elite selection for the descent of the Giau.

Nibali decided he was going to descend alone, however, flying down the mountain ahead of his illustrious colleagues and remaining between Garzelli and his main title rivals for the entire descent and into the following climb.

- Source:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/giro-ditalia-2011/stage-15/results


-----

But on-topic for this thread does anyone know why two of the mountain stages are so short? Are they hoping for something so brave as the stage to L'Alpe D'Huez?

 

[The Hitch]

Not trying to prove any of you wrong but this is how it happened :

I was sad enough to record the stage

So a simple Menu - Giro stage 15 - Rewind, got me straight to the Giau pass.

Purito and Arroyo go early. Contador (perhaps realising that hes outnumbered by Liquigas) ups the pace and only Rujano follows him.

It definitely looks like an attack as he drops everyone bar Rujano.

But once he reaches Arroyo Rodriguez, who arent that far up the road to begin with, they just rest up and it all comes back together.

Nibalis Liqui domestiques get dropped and its more or less 1 of every team in the selection.

But for a moment it looked like Contador had attacked and him Purto Rujano Arroyo were going to try a 4 man escape.

For a moment.

 

[Winterfold]

As a rouleur I like this route, and as a Wiggins fanboy I like it more.

If I was Australian I would like it even further, but if a 100% Contador rides i would expect him to win - although I find both his and Cuddles TT levels hard to pitch these days, whereas I think Wiggo is now 2nd to the Panzerwagen by 10-60s on a 40-60km route. That is just as much due to Cuddles hustling the Dauphine TT and Contador not being pushed or being knackered post Giro in 2010 as anything else.

There is more to cycling than climbing big mountains, I do wonder how many of the CN posters who think that climbing big mountains is the primary beauty of the sport have tried a 25mile/40km TT at 100%?

It is not beautiful on the telly (unless watching Wiggins or Millar), and the suffering is not easy to understand in the way that racing a mountain is, but is a real test of your power, handling skills and ability to suffer at the same time in a way that no other parcours tests you.

I think the true GT champion must show real ability in all disciplines.

And... Schlecklet was given a win on a plate in2011 and screwed up - its time for him to get properly owned.

(except he will turn up next year doing at decent TT thanks to the Hog)

 

[The Hitch]

There is more to cycling than climbing big mountains, I do wonder how many of the CN posters who think that climbing big mountains is the primary beauty of the sport have tried a 25mile/40km TT at 100%?

Personally the 40km tt is what i would be most afraid of.

A mountain stage I could follow those in front of me and get adrelaline if its going well.

A tt is like hammering a nail into your hand and getting told by radio if you are doing it better than anyone else.

I can imagine if i was a pro that I could do a good 40km tt once if i really really needed to.

But to do one or two at 100% pretty much every gt + other stage races.

pfff, forget that.

And I do like watching tts too. Annency 2009 was my favourite stage of that race for example. Inner city prologues are epic, with the millions of fans and the closeness of the times.

Mountains are still better to watch though

 

[Ferminal]

Aren't you looking forward to this:
http://www.climbbybike.com/profile.asp?Climbprofile=Col-de-P%E9gu%E8re&MountainID=6316

Seeing a break of ten of the usual suspects mess around with each other until they find the strongest man is more or less the same on any gradient if you ask me. By the 3rd week of a GT I'm kind of over it.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Pretty crappy.

QFT.

giro is a better route imo. Except that has ttt and this doesn't.

still, not looking forward to this.

 

[richo36]

i dont understand how this is a balanced route. It does not have 1 real stage for the climbers to take serious time in. I would be happy with the route if it at least had a queen stage. Honestly none of the stages come close to it. 140km for both MTF is not long enough. honestly i would trade in both stages for 1 mtf that was 200-230km long with 4-5 mountains anyday. Even if it meant having another flat stage.

I also wish they switched stage 8 and 9 around. stage 8 looks awesome but im afraid nothing will happen as everyone will want to save energy for the tt.