Rate the 2015 Tour route!

[Netserk]

If you think weather, cobbles and crashes are the main factors, than maybe you think Boonen and Cancellara are the favourites for this TDF? I'm quite sure the climbs will be the main factor is sorting out the pack.....

If Contador loses too much time in echelons and on the cobbles, it's just his own fault for being too weak. Dealing with the weather and the cobbles are first and foremost skills.If all Contador can do is climb, he should just go target the polka dot jersey or something. But hey, I think he can do more than just climb and I'm quite sure he climbs well enough to be able to earn back any time he loses on the cobbles and in the weather when the mountains come. If he can't, he'll just be beaten fair and square by a better rider.

Agree, except with "If he can't, he'll just be beaten fair and square by a better rider."

No doubt that he'd be beaten fair and square, but it's far from certain it will be done by a better rider, which doesn't make it any less fair and square.

In 2006 Óscar Pereiro Sío beat Klöden and Sastre fair and square, but he wasn't a better rider.

 

[Tonton]

Agree, except with "If he can't, he'll just be beaten fair and square by a better rider."

No doubt that he'd be beaten fair and square, but it's far from certain it will be done by a better rider, which doesn't make it any less fair and square.

In 2006 Óscar Pereiro Sío beat Klöden and Sastre fair and square, but he wasn't a better rider.

Agree, that's why I voted 8. We may have 15 "serious" riders within one minute of each other when the mountains start. I like the chances of a second-tier rider (Barguil, Majka, Koenig)pulling a Chiappucci, taking the right breakaway, build a buffer, podium in Paris, maybe more. Who is going to ride, unless Sky is back to its USPS form? Call me optimistic, but if I were a top 8-15 level rider, I would go for broke, pick my stage, give it all.

 

[hrotha]

If you were a top 8-15 rider, chances are you would have been brainwashed by every DS in your career and you'd be going for a top 10 because hey, that's very good, innit, so you wouldn't be taking any risks.

 

[barmaher]

There is no way Koenig, Barguil or Majka would get in a break unless they were a long way back on GC.

Hell, we have seen teams like Belkin, Trek and others chase riders 15 minutes down to protect a Top 10.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Agree, except with "If he can't, he'll just be beaten fair and square by a better rider."

No doubt that he'd be beaten fair and square, but it's far from certain it will be done by a better rider, which doesn't make it any less fair and square.

In 2006 Óscar Pereiro Sío beat Klöden and Sastre fair and square, but he wasn't a better rider.

Sure, the better rider can lose the race in any circumstance. So cobbles or mountains or whatever, the best rider doesn't necessarily win the race, I agree.

But if, hypothetically speaking, say, Quintana is consistently the best climber of the race, but, because he's a featherweight pure climber he loses a huge amount of time on the cobbles and in echelons to, say, Nibali and therefore, despite being consistently beaten on the MTF's by Quintana, Nibali manages to win another TDF. I'd say Nibali is simply the better rider and that's why he would win. I'm not saying it's going to happen like this, mind you, but I'm making the point that destroying your opponents in flat stages when the opportunity presents itself, because you are more skilled in these circumstances, is as much part of being the best rider in the race as destroying them in the mountains.

 

[Netserk]

Sure if the difference is made in the flat stages because the rider is better/stronger than the other, and not just because of a crash or puncture or different strength of teams.

I wouldn't say Andy proved to be a better rider than Contador on the cobbles in 2010, but I would very much say Nibali was a better rider than Contador on the cobbles in 2014.

 

[Escarabajo]

All three GTs this year favoured climbers. Next year the Giro will be more balanced, while the Tour (and obviously also the Vuelta) will favour climbers yet again.

I miss Tours with two long ITTs.

Those days are gone.

And I hope they don't come back because you get the Indurains where they just sit in throughout the mountains.

 

[Netserk]

Those days are gone.

And I hope they don't come back because you get the Indurains where they just sit in throughout the mountains.

Who was Indurain in 2006? In 2007? (2008 almost had two real ITTs as well)

I'd love to have the yellow jersey 'just' sit in throughout the mountains if it meant the other GC riders had to (and would) attack (real attacks).

 

[hrotha]

Those days are gone.

And I hope they don't come back because you get the Indurains where they just sit in throughout the mountains.

Yeah, people sat up, like Chiappucci.

 

[deValtos]

Those days are gone.

And I hope they don't come back because you get the Indurains where they just sit in throughout the mountains.

Yeah but it works because the Indurain-esque mold is contrasted nicely by the Pantani/Chiapucci pure climbers which create an exciting dynamic in the race as they needed to attack further out.

With little ITT's it just promotes the waiting game on climbs.

 

[Escarabajo]

Yeah but it works because the Indurain-esque mold is contrasted nicely by the Pantani/Chiapucci pure climbers which create an exciting dynamic in the race as they needed to attack further out.

With little ITT's it just promotes the waiting game on climbs.

It has never worked so they can win it. Bottom line is the win and that did not work.

Pure climber’s winners in the last 30 years:
Sastre, Pantani, Delgado, Van Impe.

Yet every year I hear the same story but the TT's don't have the pressure and even end up finishing the business in the mountains. LOL. I have watched the Tour too many years and I am tired of the same story.

 

[Netserk]

It has never worked so they can win it. Bottom line is the win and that did not work.

Pure climber’s winners in the last 30 years:
Sastre, Pantani, Delgado, Van Impe.

Yet every year I hear the same story but the TT's don't have the pressure and even end up finishing the business in the mountains. LOL. I have watched the Tour too many years and I am tired of the same story.

What happened in 2007?

The best climber (of the finishers) in the race won the following years:

2014
2013
(2010)
2009
2008
2007
2006

In modern times the best TTer never wins (except Wiggo). When it's not just climbs, but climbs and TTs that decide the winner, the winner is still among the best of the climbers.

 

[Escarabajo]

What happened in 2007?

The best climber (of the finishers) in the race won the following years:

2014
2013
(2010)
2009
2008
2007
2006

In modern times the best TTer never wins (except Wiggo). When it's not just climbs, but climbs and TTs that decide the winner, the winner is still among the best of the climbers.

If they were not the best TT's they were next to the best!!

Same thing.

 

[Netserk]

If they were not the best TT's they were next to the best!!

Same thing.

By the same logic the best climber (or next to the best = same thing) won the Tour in 2012.

 

[deValtos]

It has never worked so they can win it. Bottom line is the win and that did not work.

Pure climber’s winners in the last 30 years:
Sastre, Pantani, Delgado, Van Impe.

Yet every year I hear the same story but the TT's don't have the pressure and even end up finishing the business in the mountains. LOL. I have watched the Tour too many years and I am tired of the same story.

And how many pure TT riders have won ? None.

Not that they should though.

But why should a pure climber be entitled to win ? Why should a pure "anything" be entitled to win in a GT ? Climbers already have it the best in that they're the only group who can win a tour based on one skill even when TT's are included.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Pure climber’s winners in the last 30 years:
Sastre, Pantani, Delgado, Van Impe.

We have the polka dot jersey for pure climbers.

Why should one trick ponies be in contention for the general classification anyway?

 

[Escarabajo]

We have the polka dot jersey for pure climbers.

Why should one trick ponies be in contention for the general classification anyway?

Meaningless polka dot jersey nowadays!

 

[Eshnar]

Meaningless polka dot jersey nowadays!

It's meaningless because nowadays pure climbers can fight for yellow.

 

[Escarabajo]

And how many pure TT riders have won ? None.

Not that they should though.

But why should a pure climber be entitled to win ? Why should a pure "anything" be entitled to win in a GT ? Climbers already have it the best in that they're the only group who can win a tour based on one skill even when TT's are included.

You see, I am bias about this. Pure climber should win every now and then because to me the mountains are exciting. They are the best. It is the reason why I got hooked into cycling.

I live in the USA and I see people hooked to cycling because of TT. And many Angle Saxons ride their TT bikes on rides and during training. You don't see that happening very often in my country. It is about culture. You have yours and I have mine. And I don't mind if the director changes it every now and then.

 

[BrentonOfTheNorth]

If you have 100 km of ITT, you need a ****load of mountains and MTF to compensate for this. At least 4-5 MTF and a couple of downhill finishes. At least 3 of the mountain stages would have to be 4-5000 altidtude meters and close to or over 200 km.

Totally false, based on actual GTs of the last 20 years. No offense, but how closely did you watch cycling back when GTs actually had 100km of ITTs? 100km of ITT has a good balance with most GT mountain routes.

Those days are gone.

And I hope they don't come back because you get the Indurains where they just sit in throughout the mountains.

Just sit in? I don't know why that gets repeated about Indurain. He was a total beast in the mountains.

 

[UpTheRoad]

I don't understand the reasoning behind the TTT so late. It is after the usually hectic first week and if any GC team loses a few riders before the stage they will be in huge trouble right from the outset in the TTT.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I don't understand the reasoning behind the TTT so late. It is after the usually hectic first week and if any GC team loses a few riders before the stage they will be in huge trouble right from the outset in the TTT.

I had a look at the last 5 years to see what the team sizes were for the 9th stage. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but ...

9 riders : 12 teams on average (so just over half of the teams had full compliment)
8 riders : 7 teams on average
7 riders : 2 teams on average
6 riders or less : 1 team on average *


* These were Astana 2013, Garmin 2012, Movistar 2012 who all had 6 riders and Euskaltel 2012 who had 5

 

[Jazasz]

You see, I am bias about this. Pure climber should win every now and then because to me the mountains are exciting. They are the best. It is the reason why I got hooked into cycling.

I live in the USA and I see people hooked to cycling because of TT. And many Angle Saxons ride their TT bikes on rides and during training. You don't see that happening very often in my country. It is about culture. You have yours and I have mine. And I don't mind if the director changes it every now and then.

Pure climbers will win every now and then even with TTs. They just have to dominate the mountains and outclimb everyone. If they don't they don't really deserve to win.

 

[contador977]

Id like to see a 50km TT instead of the TTT. I dislike any TTT in any Grand Tour. If your team is weak, your behind the 8 ball. To balance out that 50TT that suits a Martin or Cancellara, Id mix in a mountain TT up the Galiber, Tourmalet or Ventoux to reward a climber like Quintana, Contador, etc.

The world championships should have a mountainous course every 5 years minimum so a pure climber wins the rainbow jersey once in a while.

 

[Eshnar]

157 voters for this poll and only 98 for the Giro This gets sadder and sadder