Rate the 2016 Giro route!

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Rate the 2016 Giro route!

  • 1 (Crap)

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • 4

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • 3

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • 2

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • 5

    Votes: 8 9.0%
  • 6

    Votes: 14 15.7%
  • 7

    Votes: 39 43.8%
  • 8

    Votes: 10 11.2%
  • 9

    Votes: 11 12.4%
  • 10 (Perfect)

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • Total voters
    89
Jul 12, 2013
981
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Action-wise, a GT that stimulates attacks from further than 10km in 9 out of 21 stages (stages: 4, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20) does not deserve a vote less than 7.
That Sestola stage is like having Mende as penultimate climb followed by a 8km steep descent and 8 km at 5% ascent. Action will be almost guaranteed. And I expect more or less the same (attacks from more than 10 km) to happen in Pinerolo, Arezzo, Cividale, Corvara and S. Anna.
And I don't agree that this Giro is designed with the aim of creating minimal gaps. The best rider(s) will create a big cushion and I fear this Giro will be settled by the MTT (one of the disadvantages ).
 
Jun 30, 2014
7,060
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Re:

Ataraxus said:
Action-wise, a GT that stimulates attacks from further than 10km in 9 out of 21 stages (stages: 4, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20) does not deserve a vote less than 7.
That Sestola stage is like having Mende as penultimate climb followed by a 8km steep descent and 8 km at 5% ascent. Action will be almost guaranteed. And I expect more or less the same (attacks from more than 10 km) to happen in Pinerolo, Arezzo, Cividale, Corvara and S. Anna.
And I don't agree that this Giro is designed with the aim of creating minimal gaps. The best rider(s) will create a big cushion and I fear this Giro will be settled by the MTT (one of the disadvantages ).
I don't think that the MTT will create big gaps, it's very short and features about 750m of altitude gain, we could see big gaps if stage 14 is ridden very hard, but otherwise I don't expect big gaps.
 
Re:

I'm not sure how to rate this. I love the overall design idea, but the execution is haphazard.
Jancouver said:
I didn't even see the route as it is pointless to judge it at this time. As always, it will come down to who will show up and how it will be raced. No course gonna do you any good if the best riders won't show up.
Rate the route, not the race.

At the end of the day it's up to the riders, but the route is a very important variable, and pretty much the only one the organizers can control. Hence, it can and should be judged by itself.
 
Jul 12, 2013
981
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Re: Re:

Mayomaniac said:
Ataraxus said:
Action-wise, a GT that stimulates attacks from further than 10km in 9 out of 21 stages (stages: 4, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20) does not deserve a vote less than 7.
That Sestola stage is like having Mende as penultimate climb followed by a 8km steep descent and 8 km at 5% ascent. Action will be almost guaranteed. And I expect more or less the same (attacks from more than 10 km) to happen in Pinerolo, Arezzo, Cividale, Corvara and S. Anna.
And I don't agree that this Giro is designed with the aim of creating minimal gaps. The best rider(s) will create a big cushion and I fear this Giro will be settled by the MTT (one of the disadvantages ).
I don't think that the MTT will create big gaps, it's very short and features about 750m of altitude gain, we could see big gaps if stage 14 is ridden very hard, but otherwise I don't expect big gaps.

You misunderstood me. I meant by the time of MTT (at the end of second week). This MTT is similar to Nevegal in Giro 2011 and apart from the gap of the stellar Contador to the second, the other gaps were minimal. I expect the same in the 2016 MTT as well.
 
Re: Re:

Eshnar said:
gregrowlerson said:
More recently I don't recall the racing being too tame on stages 13, 14 and 15 of the 2011 Giro because there was a MTT on stage 16.
Well, there was a rest day after stage 15 you know. The only thing comparable in the recent Giros I guess was the Oropa MTT 2007, which luckily didn't hamper the previous stage to Briancon. But then again those were the days... Not sure what the riders would think nowadays.
2008 probably is the best reference. But back then, Reiterjoch and Fedaia were both taken easily prior to Kronplatz.

Except by Sella of course. :D
 
Re:

Jancouver said:
I didn't even see the route as it is pointless to judge it at this time. As always, it will come down to who will show up and how it will be raced. No course gonna do you any good if the best riders won't show up.

I do prefer the "best riders" riding an "average" course over the "best course" filled with only "average" riders. If Froome, Contador, Quintana etc are not there, and while Landa vs Nib may be entertaining, we all know that you are only watching "Seria B" as the best players are playing the "Seria A".
In that case is not going to happen for you. In fact the only reason it happens for the Vuelta every year is for pure coincidence. Otherwise La Vuelta and Giro will lose every time. So don't be waiting standing up!
 
Does anyone else think the route is good for the double attempt?
Peaking for the second week, using the third as an altitude camp, combined with some cancellations and softer opposition could be doable.
 
Re:

sir fly said:
Does anyone else think the route is good for the double attempt?
Peaking for the second week, using the third as an altitude camp, combined with some cancellations and softer opposition could be doable.

Yup, however the problem here, is the olympics that favour any double candidate.
 
Re:

sir fly said:
Does anyone else think the route is good for the double attempt?
Peaking for the second week, using the third as an altitude camp, combined with some cancellations and softer opposition could be doable.
But still the third week should be decisive, with 2.5 high mountain stages + pramartino, which shouldnt be underestimated. Peaking for the second week could work but it might cause a very hard fight, and we saw it this year with Contador, what happens if your shape at the end of the giro isnt very good anymore but there are still hard stages: You might loose the giro or you have to fight so hard that you have to spend all your energy.
 
Re:

sir fly said:
Does anyone else think the route is good for the double attempt?
Peaking for the second week, using the third as an altitude camp, combined with some cancellations and softer opposition could be doable.
There is no such a thing as a good route for the double.
To make the double you just have to be head and shoulders above your opponents in the Giro AND in the Tour.
 
Re:

barmaher said:
It might be.....but I don't think we will see a serious double attempt for a while.
Red Rick said:
sir fly said:
Does anyone else think the route is good for the double attempt?
Peaking for the second week, using the third as an altitude camp, combined with some cancellations and softer opposition could be doable.

Yup, however the problem here, is the olympics that favour any double candidate.
Yes, the Olympics doesn't fit in, at all.
When have the games become so desirable and prestigious among the riders?
Gigs_98 said:
sir fly said:
Does anyone else think the route is good for the double attempt?
Peaking for the second week, using the third as an altitude camp, combined with some cancellations and softer opposition could be doable.
But still the third week should be decisive, with 2.5 high mountain stages + pramartino, which shouldnt be underestimated. Peaking for the second week could work but it might cause a very hard fight, and we saw it this year with Contador, what happens if your shape at the end of the giro isnt very good anymore but there are still hard stages: You might loose the giro or you have to fight so hard that you have to spend all your energy.
Back of the peak should be enough in this high mountains. Throw in a cancellation or two and you have processional conclusion of the race. But it is a gamble.
 
If there is one part of the mountainous Italy that I miss in the Giro the last few years, it has to be the mountains between Trento and Rovereto and east of these cities. Here we find climbs like Bondone, Bordala, Coe, Sommo, Ventriolo Terme, Campogrosso, etc. It shouldn't be too hard to design a tough mountain stage in this area. These climbs are also fairly low, well below 2000m, and there should be no risk of cancellations which are frequent on stages with climbs over 2200-2300m.
 
Re:

sir fly said:
Does anyone else think the route is good for the double attempt?
Peaking for the second week, using the third as an altitude camp, combined with some cancellations and softer opposition could be doable.

Not really. The route is of the sort that has important stages throughout the three weeks and thus requires reaching near or at the peak in first week already and keeping it until the end of week 3. Also, the route offers plenty of chanches to attack, in various terrain, making it hard to defend any sort of lead.
All in all, the route requires peaking for the Giro in order to win it, and as such is not conducive for a possible (successful) double attempt.
 
Gave it an 8. Very good route overall with stage 14 a crown jewel. Well balanced, lots of places to attack, hard to protect the existing lead for whoever happens to be in the lead.

Downside is that weather could ruin important parts of the race, due to it going high altitude a lot so early in a year. The other thing is the appalling positioning of the MTT, although it is short enough, so it might not actually ruin the queen stage the day before.
 
Sep 13, 2015
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The route is ok, it is not as good as this years route, although there are some decent stages. I really like the stage to Arezzo with the gravel roads. The Corvara stage is not bad, They must be banking on that they will attack on the Passo Giau, because the Passo Valparola is not as hard. But I was hoping for a stage a bit like 2002, or something like the Passo Giau / Passo Fedaia / Passo Pordoi / Passo Campolongo, that would have been pretty epic. As much as I like the climbs of Col de la Bonette and the Lombarde, too much of the stage is in France, and there is a good chance the Giro will be decided out of Italy, but its a good short stage. Although I did like the idea of the Col Agnel / Colle Sampeyre / Colle Fauniera / and the full climb to Santuario di Sant'Anna di Vinadio, like the cancelled stage in 2001. And I fear that snow could be a problem with two stages in a row with climbs over 2700 metres.
 
Mar 14, 2009
3,436
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Re: Re:

hrotha said:
I'm not sure how to rate this. I love the overall design idea, but the execution is haphazard.
Jancouver said:
I didn't even see the route as it is pointless to judge it at this time. As always, it will come down to who will show up and how it will be raced. No course gonna do you any good if the best riders won't show up.
Rate the route, not the race.

At the end of the day it's up to the riders, but the route is a very important variable, and pretty much the only one the organizers can control. Hence, it can and should be judged by itself.


It's pointless to judge the route. How many times did we see a what should be a "great" route to turn dull just because the best riders didn't show up or were not exactly racing?

Or even worse, one dominant team shut down everything and turned he race into a steady PowerMeter "drill the front" uneventful borefest?

Don't get me wrong, I do like the Giro very much, and the race is usually very fun to watch but it is just a shame the best riders usually won't show up.
 
Jancouver makes a great point. Riders make the race. For example, the Vuelta's course wasn't great but (conservative) tactics made it super interesting with Dumoulin in the picture and close to punking the favorites. Still, I think it's a 8 course, but obviously tailored for Nibbles. Once again the stereotype of the crafty Italians will make people mad or chuckle when an helicopter blows wind in Nibali's back ;) .
 
Mar 14, 2009
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Tonton said:
Jancouver makes a great point. Riders make the race. For example, the Vuelta's course wasn't great but (conservative) tactics made it super interesting with Dumoulin in the picture and close to punking the favorites. Still, I think it's a 8 course, but obviously tailored for Nibbles. Once again the stereotype of the crafty Italians will make people mad or chuckle when an helicopter blows wind in Nibali's back ;) .

While I have much respect for Dumoulin's riding skills, his fight for the Vuelta's top placing was just a good example of a poorly attended race where most teams send (few exceptions to the rule) their 3rd tier riders and neo-pros to learn.

It is no secret that for many years and for many riders targeting the WC, Vuelta is just a "training" ride and most are not even planning on finishing the "race".

IMO, Vuelta should be the first 2 week GT ... :cool:
 
Re: Re:

Jancouver said:
hrotha said:
I'm not sure how to rate this. I love the overall design idea, but the execution is haphazard.
Jancouver said:
I didn't even see the route as it is pointless to judge it at this time. As always, it will come down to who will show up and how it will be raced. No course gonna do you any good if the best riders won't show up.
Rate the route, not the race.

At the end of the day it's up to the riders, but the route is a very important variable, and pretty much the only one the organizers can control. Hence, it can and should be judged by itself.


It's pointless to judge the route. How many times did we see a what should be a "great" route to turn dull just because the best riders didn't show up or were not exactly racing?

Or even worse, one dominant team shut down everything and turned he race into a steady PowerMeter "drill the front" uneventful borefest?

Don't get me wrong, I do like the Giro very much, and the race is usually very fun to watch but it is just a shame the best riders usually won't show up.
The race is fun most of the time because the best riders don't show up.
How many times did we see a what should be a "great" route to turn dull just because the best riders did show up but were not exactly racing? (In the Tour I mean)
Riders make the race, but the route helps. We'll have the usual field discussion later. This one is for the route on paper.