Rate the TdF 2017 route

[sir fly]

No surprise, at the end.
ASO's looking for a new challenger in Bardet, rather than in Quintana , I'd say.
Good balance considering the field.
For now, my mark is 5. Riders could push it higher. It has a potential.

 

[Gigs_98]

First of all, I don't understand this incredible hate for the route. It surely isn't perfect but I think it's not that bad. Especially the hate for the flat stages puzzles me, since I think there aren't even profiles of these stages yet. The fact that Liege will have a flat finish makes me angry too, but at least Longwy and Rodez will have hard finishes and is there any news about the Nuits Saint Georges stage? Because a Paris Nice stage finished there a few years ago, and the finish was relatively interesting.

I gave the route a 6 but that was before reading that Liege and nuits saint georges will be flat stages, which would only make it 7 really flat stages (which isn't perfect but not worse than what we've got in the last few years)
What I find funny in this thread is that of the people who dislike the route 50% dislike it because it favors Froome and 50% dislike it because it favors Quintana. Ofc there are also other reasons why they don't like the route but I think the route is more balanced than in the last years. Quintana probably won't lose that much time in TT's, but there also aren't that many possibilities to get back time. Thats also the reason why I'm very happy about the downhill finishes. Yeah, descents before the finish often lead to passive racing but thats usually because there are mtf's on the following days so the riders get better chances to gain time later in the race, so there is no reason to attack. This time however just relying on mtf's won't be enough. Due to the opening TT, PDBF and les Rousses there will already be some time gaps earlier on so riders like Quintana know if they have to attack.
My biggest problem with the route is that after stage 13 there are only 2 mountain stages left (btw, the exact opposite of the giro, where there will only be 2 mountain stages before stage 13 and probably 5 or 6 after it). I don't like backloaded routes but this looks way too easy to me, especially because the Izoard stage is absolute crap.

The highlights are clearly the Mont du Chat and the Galibier stage, descent finishes after two of the hardest passes in France are simply great and things I have hoped for a very long time. I generally like the 3 mountain stages in the first week. I haven't seen how the PDBF stage will look like (I only read it has a boring profile) but still I like that the gc will already be structured early on without already deciding it. I'm actually also looking forward to the Pyrenees. Peyresurde will be a decent stage and although the stage design is abysmal I'm also happy to see the Mur de Peguere again. Btw, don't let you fool by the profile. Because the stage is so short it looks as if the climb is in the middle of the stage far away from the finish, but actually there are only 27 kilometers to go at the top. IMO thats decent.

IMO a decent route which has some very obvious flaws but could also be way worse.

PS: Okay, I just saw the profiles and god, they seriously made all the remaining stages flat? That lowers my ranking to 5/10

 

[hfer07]

If there were stage profiles available to make a more accurate opinion....

but anyways- At first glance, this Tour seems interesting because is shaped for a more rouleur type of rider whose instincts and tactics can do a lot of damage than a "machine" Like Froome. I still believe the last ITT should be longer, but I guess ASO has to make a compromise in allowing the race title to be more appealing to the non gifted TT'ers

 

[Red Rick]

Rodez is a - in my book. And you should be able to figure out why.

I don't care that much who it favours. What I care about is that there's only like 2 stages that are actually somewhat well designed and could get decent action. For the rest, there's nothing new and it seems they actually do a concious effort to make stages worse than they should be, and to showcase a lack of inspiration and desire to do any better. Last mountain stage says it all really. Look at us being new with Izoard MTF. A good climb that has no business being a MTF, and preceding it with nothing but the Col de Vars, which is a crap climb from that side. It's like they actually want no spectacle at all. With as little TT as they have, one stage could be enough to give the climbers all the time they need.

We're applauding a stage to Peyragudes ffs, just because it's 214km long, which isn't that long.

 

[Gigs_98]

If there were stage profiles available to make a more accurate opinion....

but anyways- At first glance, this Tour seems interesting because is shaped for a more rouleur type of rider whose instincts and tactics can do a lot of damage than a "machine" Like Froome. I still believe the last ITT should be longer, but I guess ASO has to make a compromise in allowing the race title to be more appealing to the non gifted TT'ers

http://velomotion.de/2016/10/tour-de-france-2017-strecke-etappen/

 

[hrotha]

I still believe the last ITT should be longer, but I guess ASO has to make a compromise in allowing the race title to be more appealing to the non gifted TT'ers

Why would ASO have to make that compromise?

 

[Durden93]

I very much like the Chat stage, but I wish that it had a 40km ITT in front of it. Give Quintana a 2 minute deficit and see what he can do on that stage.

 

[pink_jersey]

Re: Re:

So, where are these profiles found again?

Why would you look at them? Quintana will never win on a route like this.

Sorry, but if he doesn't win with this route then we'll never win. He has hard climbs, no wind stages to suck the life out of him and very few km's of TT.
Still, I expect Froome to focus again on his climbing and distroy everyone like he did in 2015.

 

[Flamin]

Re:

0/10 interest in this.

Second this. I couldn't bother taking more than just a very quick look at the route.

Bring on the classics.

 

[Red Rick]

Oh, and don't get me started on the medium mountains. There is a single climb where something might happen. I also forgot to ramble about the Alpine stages being in the wrong *** order

 

[Red Rick]

Oh and if you think this route suits Quintana, then what about this year? It had about twice as many mountains, and of the 50ish km of tt, about 17 was largely an MTT.

 

[hfer07]

If there were stage profiles available to make a more accurate opinion....

but anyways- At first glance, this Tour seems interesting because is shaped for a more rouleur type of rider whose instincts and tactics can do a lot of damage than a "machine" Like Froome. I still believe the last ITT should be longer, but I guess ASO has to make a compromise in allowing the race title to be more appealing to the non gifted TT'ers

http://velomotion.de/2016/10/tour-de-france-2017-strecke-etappen/

Thanks I believe the Tour can be won by tactics & courage, rather than brute strength.

 

[roundabout]

Re:

Oh, and don't get me started on the medium mountains. There is a single climb where something might happen. I also forgot to ramble about the Alpine stages being in the wrong **** order

That Montee something something something on the stage to Les Rousses seems like an improvement over 2010. Shame that the most interesting stage is on the next day.

 

[yaco]

I gave it a 5. I'm totally fine with no TTT, and ITTs have been kind of boring lately in the TdF. Plus they bore me.

If I may ask: do two longer ITTs (or one short and one long) bore you more than two short ones?

ITT's are full on boring - Racing against the clock is less interesting than racing each other - Anyway if you are fair dinkum about TT's, then each GT should have an TTT.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Oh, and don't get me started on the medium mountains. There is a single climb where something might happen. I also forgot to ramble about the Alpine stages being in the wrong **** order

That Montee something something something on the stage to Les Rousses seems like an improvement over 2010. Shame that the most interesting stage is on the next day.

Think the 2010 stage ended with like 6 climbs in succession, all harder then the previous one, but the final 3 were all not any steeper than 5%, so nothing happened. I don't know how steep that climb is, but it doesn't look that good to me.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

Oh, and don't get me started on the medium mountains. There is a single climb where something might happen. I also forgot to ramble about the Alpine stages being in the wrong **** order

That Montee something something something on the stage to Les Rousses seems like an improvement over 2010. Shame that the most interesting stage is on the next day.

Think the 2010 stage ended with like 6 climbs in succession, all harder then the previous one, but the final 3 were all not any steeper than 5%, so nothing happened. I don't know how steep that climb is, but it doesn't look that good to me.

11.7 km at 6.4% average. Pretty tough for that part of Jura.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Oh and if you think this route suits Quintana, then what about this year? It had about twice as many mountains, and of the 50ish km of tt, about 17 was largely an MTT.

Exactly, last year's route was perfect for Quintana. I said that many times before the Tour. Perfect. That along with his very good spring made him as big of a favourite as Froome just before the Pyrenees. But it wasn't meant to be this year for whatever reason.

I can't understand why you'd make the time trials and mountain stages easier? Its like ASO are trying to destruct their own product for the sake of saying it was close in the end. Thats what people want, apparently. Or think they want. Ugh, I don't like it. Its quite frankly pretty sickening.

I like that Galibier-stage, tho. Every time we've seen Galibier lately like that it has been in the first weeks (2005 and 2007) on and with a longer drag. This time its the second last mountain stage before, effectively, a one climb stage to Izoard. That should make that one interesting. Peyregudes looks promising as well on paper.

Juras are great. Thats the big plus for me. But everything else is very, very underwhelming.

Anyways, I gave the route 4.

 

[sir fly]

Re:

Chaves

Good call!
Perfect route for OBE.

 

[Netserk]

First of all, I don't understand this incredible hate for the route. It surely isn't perfect but I think it's not that bad. Especially the hate for the flat stages puzzles me, since I think there aren't even profiles of these stages yet. The fact that Liege will have a flat finish makes me angry too, but at least Longwy and Rodez will have hard finishes and is there any news about the Nuits Saint Georges stage? Because a Paris Nice stage finished there a few years ago, and the finish was relatively interesting.

I gave the route a 6 but that was before reading that Liege and nuits saint georges will be flat stages, which would only make it 7 really flat stages (which isn't perfect but not worse than what we've got in the last few years)
What I find funny in this thread is that of the people who dislike the route 50% dislike it because it favors Froome and 50% dislike it because it favors Quintana. Ofc there are also other reasons why they don't like the route but I think the route is more balanced than in the last years. Quintana probably won't lose that much time in TT's, but there also aren't that many possibilities to get back time. Thats also the reason why I'm very happy about the downhill finishes. Yeah, descents before the finish often lead to passive racing but thats usually because there are mtf's on the following days so the riders get better chances to gain time later in the race, so there is no reason to attack. This time however just relying on mtf's won't be enough. Due to the opening TT, PDBF and les Rousses there will already be some time gaps earlier on so riders like Quintana know if they have to attack.
My biggest problem with the route is that after stage 13 there are only 2 mountain stages left (btw, the exact opposite of the giro, where there will only be 2 mountain stages before stage 13 and probably 5 or 6 after it). I don't like backloaded routes but this looks way too easy to me, especially because the Izoard stage is absolute crap.

The highlights are clearly the Mont du Chat and the Galibier stage, descent finishes after two of the hardest passes in France are simply great and things I have hoped for a very long time. I generally like the 3 mountain stages in the first week. I haven't seen how the PDBF stage will look like (I only read it has a boring profile) but still I like that the gc will already be structured early on without already deciding it. I'm actually also looking forward to the Pyrenees. Peyresurde will be a decent stage and although the stage design is abysmal I'm also happy to see the Mur de Peguere again. Btw, don't let you fool by the profile. Because the stage is so short it looks as if the climb is in the middle of the stage far away from the finish, but actually there are only 27 kilometers to go at the top. IMO thats decent.

IMO a decent route which has some very obvious flaws but could also be way worse.

PS: Okay, I just saw the profiles and god, they seriously made all the remaining stages flat? That lowers my ranking to 5/10

There will be 9 Cav/Kittel stages. 9!!! Sure, one (maybe two if we're lucky) will go to the break, but for crying out loud, that is absolutely hideous.

But of course, they have to balance the hilltop finishes and medium mountain stages out, otherwise it would be too easy for Sagan to get green...

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

WTF is going on with cycling in the last few years...there must be some strong Colombian lobby behind this. How else would you explain the Grand Tours with such short ITTs. I want to see a complete rider to win the Tour, not some mountain goat like Quintana. Colombians were always great to spice things up in the mountains, but now they are the favourites for the GC. I dont like this trend, ten years back they would have no chance.

I am not sure what this post means. No chance 10 years ago? because of TT's????
So Colombians are good to spice up the race but not win? so it is almost like they don't have the right to win. I think your post sounded a bit off IMHO.

 

[Escarabajo]

I want more TT's as well. I want Quintana to win it fair and square with the longer TT's. If he can't then that would be fair anyway.

Having said that the Colombians are not the only ones benefiting from this anyway. Think about the French riders.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I have a very, very hard time believing the reason why they have so many flat stages are for the purpose of giving Sagan a harder time. I hope that isn't the case at least.

If thats the case, they have effectively tried to ruin or at least massively worsen their OWN RACE in order for 1) Froome to have a harder time winning or at least seem to have a harder time winning by making the route easier and 2) overload the race with totally flat stages in order for the pure sprinters being able to contest Sagan's green jersey.

 

[BigMac]

I hate the notion that we have to try to give the better rider a harder time. Where's the justice in that? Isn't being better a good trait? One thing is equality, and I'm all for it - another is equity. Equity in sports stinks of artificiality. If Sagan can gain points where the Cavs and Kittels of this world are, in theory, better, too bad for them. It's up to them to do the same thing in Sagan's playground. They can't? Well, then the stronger rider wins.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Oh, and don't get me started on the medium mountains. There is a single climb where something might happen. I also forgot to ramble about the Alpine stages being in the wrong **** order

That Montee something something something on the stage to Les Rousses seems like an improvement over 2010. Shame that the most interesting stage is on the next day.

Seems like the last 5km are 7%, but with 11km afterwards that are more or less flat without a descent, I doubt we'll see more action than in '10. Who knows, maybe super-Sagan shows up and wins the sprint behind for points

 

[Brullnux]

I was generous and gave a three.

Mountain stages on the whole pretty average. Peyraguades is meh, length OK but not that hard and the stage to Foix is 100km and the last climb isn't that hard. Could be interesting, but should never be a key mountain stage. An Izoard MTF is so bad and the Stage that goes over Galibier is on the wrong place. The penultimate weekend is a typical joke and a 23km ITT on Stage 20 is honestly ridiculous. The stage with Mont du Chat is very good.