Reactions from the peloton

[Adamastor]

and Jens still backs Lance.

that's top of the things that spells out "I'm a doper", just ahead of a statement of "I am shocked"

Where does he back LA?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Santi Botero defends Armstrong.

"En ese momento era un corredor muy superior. No creo que unos testimonios que indican que utilizó sustancias prohibidas hayan hecho que se ganara una carrera de esa categoría y menos siete veces. Las ganó porque era el mejor"

He won because he was the best!

http://deportes.terra.com.mx/otros-...367eb761afdaa310VgnCLD2000000dc6eb0aRCRD.html

Read about Santiago just yesterday. Was Cadel's roommate at the 2004 Vuelta when most of the T-mobile team had to pull out after eating "bad fish"...

 

[hrotha]

Jens rode with known dopers, for doping directors. Even if we assume, that he’s clean – I don’t buy, that he saw and knew nothing.

Sorry, Jens, try again.

Agreed.

Especially when Leipheimer and Landis have said talk about doping was pretty open in the peloton as late as 2006. There's also what Voigt allegedly told Jaksche during the 1998 Tour - now I always took it as a simple joke, it doesn't even mean he was doping, but it implies a greater level of awareness than he's admitting.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

Agreed.

Especially when Leipheimer and Landis have said talk about doping was pretty open in the peloton as late as 2006. There's also what Voigt allegedly told Jaksche during the 1998 Tour - now I always took it as a simple joke, it doesn't even mean he was doping, but it implies a greater level of awareness than he's admitting.

Which of Jorg's version of events was this? Sorry I ask but there are so many, and they are all different... I loose track.

 

[neineinei]

Ekimov

Journalist: You are not disappointed in Armstrong after the publication of the USADA report?
Viatcheslav Ekimov: I am disappointed in the teammates who spoke.

http://summer.sport-express.ru/cycling/reviews/25702/ Russian
http://translate.google.no/translat...ummer.sport-express.ru/cycling/reviews/25702/ Google translate

 

[workingclasshero]

Where does he back LA?

he's gone riding with him since the reasoned decision. Jens is a two-faced dope.

 

[wannab]

he's gone riding with him since the reasoned decision. Jens is a two-faced dope.

Source? but ye as nice he may (seem to) be, he's a child of the EPO generation so I wouldn't expect otherwise ..

 

[workingclasshero]

Source? but ye as nice he may (seem to) be, he's a child of the EPO generation so I wouldn't expect otherwise ..

Jens Voigt ‏@thejensie
And yes, went to @LIVESTRONG diner on Saturday, yes i was there,

Jens Voigt ‏@thejensie
Did the 65 miles this morning at the livestrong event. It was a good ride for a good cause, so of course i did it.

 

[thirteen]

Jens Voigt ‏@thejensie
And yes, went to @LIVESTRONG diner on Saturday, yes i was there,

Jens Voigt ‏@thejensie
Did the 65 miles this morning at the livestrong event. It was a good ride for a good cause, so of course i did it.

which, i believe, he promised before the report came out.

it's not easy to back out of a charity ride when it's already been promoted.

 

[DominicDecoco]

he's gone riding with him since the reasoned decision. Jens is a two-faced dope.

Jens Voigt ‏@thejensie
And yes, went to @LIVESTRONG diner on Saturday, yes i was there,

Jens Voigt ‏@thejensie
Did the 65 miles this morning at the livestrong event. It was a good ride for a good cause, so of course i did it.

That's not really the same as riding with the man, is it..

 

[workingclasshero]

That's not really the same as riding with the man, is it..

he did ride with lance as well I believe just couldn't find the links in no time, i am at work so can't really be spending too much time looking up evidence that Jens Voigt is doping.

Bottom line is he talks like a doper, he rides like a doper, he looks like a doper. Let's at least consider the possibility he is a doper.

 

[DominicDecoco]

he did ride with lance as well I believe just couldn't find the links in no time, i am at work so can't really be spending too much time looking up evidence that Jens Voigt is doping.

Bottom line is he talks like a doper, he rides like a doper, he looks like a doper. Let's at least consider the possibility he is a doper.

He was at Livestrong with a couple of riders from Radioshack-Trek. Not with Lance.

Jens might be doping or might not be. But let's not just write untrue stuff here and there. We are not Lance's lawyers afterall.

 

[Lukenwolf]

he did ride with lance as well I believe just couldn't find the links in no time, i am at work so can't really be spending too much time looking up evidence that Jens Voigt is doping.

Bottom line is he talks like a doper, he rides like a doper, he looks like a doper. Let's at least consider the possibility he is a doper.

I don't know what your little private crusade against Jens is all about, but if nothing else, it neatly exposes the bigotry in here. Half this thread is full of moaning about the peloton being silent. Jens spoke out, in a very detailed fashion as opposed to a one-sentence twitter blah-blah and what does he get for it? Not one, but two threads that condemn him as a doper. No wonder they all can't be bothered to say a friggin' thing.

Is he clean? Has he doped? Nobody of us knows. Nobody would have expected that a drug-infested cesspool like Festina had a clean rider on their tour roster, yet it happened. And except for Jaksche's vague implication of what could just as well have been a jokingly expressed reply there is no clear-cut sign that he did do any PED's. He wasn't implied in Puerto, no team mate of his has spoken out against him.

On one hand we demand the Peloton to say something and when someone does he gets slammed with multiple hate-threads. Well, way to encourage them to open their mouth.

 

[Benotti69]

I don't know what your little private crusade against Jens is all about, but if nothing else, it neatly exposes the bigotry in here. Half this thread is full of moaning about the peloton being silent. Jens spoke out, in a very detailed fashion as opposed to a one-sentence twitter blah-blah and what does he get for it? Not one, but two threads that condemn him as a doper. No wonder they all can't be bothered to say a friggin' thing.

Is he clean? Has he doped? Nobody of us knows. Nobody would have expected that a drug-infested cesspool like Festina had a clean rider on their tour roster, yet it happened. And except for Jaksche's vague implication of what could just as well have been a jokingly expressed reply there is no clear-cut sign that he did do any PED's. He wasn't implied in Puerto, no team mate of his has spoken out against him.

On one hand we demand the Peloton to say something and when someone does he gets slammed with multiple hate-threads. Well, way to encourage them to open their mouth.

Why do you think Jens would be above it all?

He claims to not have seen any doping?

Do you really believe that?

He is buddy with Armstrong a guy who has dragged his sport further into the gutter and he has no problem with Armstrong?

I guess you still believe in Unicorns.

 

[86TDFWinner]

he did ride with lance as well I believe just couldn't find the links in no time, i am at work so can't really be spending too much time looking up evidence that Jens Voigt is doping.
Bottom line is he talks like a doper, he rides like a doper, he looks like a doper. Let's at least consider the possibility he is a doper.

Ah, but you can sure find time (during work) to post here, and post a few links, right?

 

[86TDFWinner]

I guess you still believe in Unicorns.

Brilliant!

 

[mutschi]

I am German, like Jens and while not naive not a total cynic either. But we have to look at the facts. We are looking at a guy who was hammering it at the front in long Alpine Stages in the 2nd and 3rd week of the TdF for many many years. And still doing it. At that age? His weight and size?
I think people give him too much credit because he is a selfless rider and not a big winner. And he is funny sometimes. Yet, he is still one of the old guard and more importantly, he earns good money with it. What he says is irrelevant. Have you guys forgotten how Armstrong lied and the confidence he radiated. Millions believed him. There are different styles of lying. Some guys are silent, some go defensive. Some go aggressive. And some go "all or nothing", risk everything like Jens does. That's how he rides. Maybe, that's how he lies.

 

[Lukenwolf]

Why do you think Jens would be above it all?

I didn't say he is above it. But you should have at least an inkling of information that warrants to decry someone as a doper. Being implicated in the Puerto case. Having suspicious tests or a other riders implicating him. That are things I see as grounds to say he is a doper.
Bassons was riding for one of the most drug-infested teams at the time, yet he was clean. So with nothing to indicate PED usage, I think he deserves the benefit of doubt.

He claims to not have seen any doping?

What does that have to do with anything? He claims he never saw doping firsthand, which is why he cannot call anyone out. So what? Nobody ever stuck a needle in his **** where Jens could see it. It's not like doping went on in public places. He probably knew about it, but he never actually saw the act. That's all he claims. Not a very preposterous claim really.

Do you really believe that?

I'm skeptical, but I give him the benefit of doubt. If nothing else then for the fact that he must know that there is a big risk should he be proven to have been a doper. Ever since Ulrich got busted, dopers have a hard time in Germany. He would destroy all future prospects post-cycling. [/quote]

He is buddy with Armstrong a guy who has dragged his sport further into the gutter and he has no problem with Armstrong?
I guess you still believe in Unicorns.

He was never a buddy of Armstrong. Armstrong doesn't have buddies. He has people, who are useful for him and those who once where and are no longer. That he did the Livestrong gig doesn't mean he's Armstrongs buddy. One of his teams main sponsors was a major sponsor of Armstrong until recently. For all we know it could have been a contractual obligation or a commitment he made before the full extent of Armstrongs system became known.
I don't like it any more than the next guy that he was there, but his appearance there does not implicate that he's a Seventh Win Apologist or that he did PED's.

 

[hrotha]

Nobody would have expected that a drug-infested cesspool like Festina had a clean rider on their tour roster, yet it happened.

It didn't. Bassons and Halgand never rode the Tour with Festina. Lefevre only did it in 1999, after the Festina case.

 

[Lukenwolf]

It didn't. Bassons and Halgand never rode the Tour with Festina. Lefevre only did it in 1999, after the Festina case.

My mistake. You're correct. I mixed it up with '99 at which time he was with FDJeux.
Still he was a clean rider in a completely drug infested team, so team membership cannot exactly be taken as an indication of PED use, even if said team has not the best of reputations.

 

[cineteq]

He claims he never saw doping firsthand, which is why he cannot call anyone out. So what? Nobody ever stuck a needle in his **** where Jens could see it.

Can you just use common sense? Can you read between the lines? His actions/words speak by themselves.

Do you still believe in Father Christmas?

 

[hrotha]

My mistake. You're correct. I mixed it up with '99 at which time he was with FDJeux.
Still he was a clean rider in a completely drug infested team, so team membership cannot exactly be taken as an indication of PED use, even if said team has not the best of reputations.

Yeah, but the difference is Bassons was small fish, while Voigt was a very successful rider and definitely part of the A-team back in 1998.

 

[Lukenwolf]

Yeah, but the difference is Bassons was small fish, while Voigt was a very successful rider and definitely part of the A-team back in 1998.

Well, "very successful rider" is a bit of stretch. These are his 2000 and 2001 wins - a time of which Jonathan Vaughters said CA was a (more or less) clean team:

2000
Bayern-Rundfahrt
Grand Prix Cholet-Pays de la Loire

2001
Grand Prix des Nations
Bayern-Rundfahrt
Tour du Poitou-Charentes
Stage win and one day in yellow at the Tour de France

Assuming that at least at this time he didn't do any PED's and even though most are not exactly Grand Slam races, it would mean a clean rider would not exactly be dropped on a flat stage, so his Palmares are not that suspicious as some have us believe. In 14 or so Tour participations he managed 3 stage wins and he's specialized in breakaways. That's hardly spectacular. His most wins came at the Duo-TT in Brühl and the Criterium International, a race during which most of the GT favourites were early in their build-up and which wasn't exactly a mountain tour. I think his results are quite believable and unless many other riders he never had a 'miraculous transformation', he was the same ol' breakaway nutcase with a pain-fetish all through his career.

 

[Benotti69]

Well, "very successful rider" is a bit of stretch. These are his 2000 and 2001 wins - a time of which Jonathan Vaughters said CA was a (more or less) clean team:

So Jens more or less doped.

 

[Lukenwolf]

I cannot validate the truth of his statement. The conversation in which he said that to Frankie Andreu was an exhibit of his USDA affidavit. He may have lied to Frankie that day, but I'm inclined to think he was true. That's why I added the (more or less) could as well have written 'most likely' instead.