Reactions from the Pro Peloton to #USPSConspiracy (USADA) - post here

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Alpe d'Huez

Alpe d'Huez

Mar 11, 2009
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This is a good thread, and I hope it doesn't get bogged down. Though I have to agree with Hog in on Jan's comments. He may not name names and details, but his candor shows integrity someone else seems to have none of.

The Gnome said:
...as there seems to be no actual video footage of Sandusky committing what he is accused of I wonder if Horner has the same no video/no real proof standard...
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Precisely. When people say there is no hard evidence, only testimony from a bunch of jealous people with an axe to grind, and someone who may have seen something, but didn't know with 100% certainty what was going on, this exact same defense could apply to Sandusky.

I'm not trying to equate LA's doping to Sandusky's horrific acts. But I do want people to be clear in understanding what exactly evidence is, and interpreted in courts and hearings, and have a consistent standard as such.
 
Northern rider

Northern rider

Jun 18, 2012
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Lemond interviewed today in a Dutch paper.

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1063/Tour-de...-zijn-tourzeges-kwijt-hij-is-een-vergif.dhtml

Google translate does a bit of words rearrange order slightly odd in a different.

"Yes, because there is so much evidence. I hope so, because again, he deserves no special treatment. There are other riders who are big wins, including Tour Victories, have lost. He is poison, it is poisonous. It's not just cycling, it is also about power. Anyone who says anything about him, something pointed out, is punished. Therefore it is good that this happens. If USADA works well, once Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel (Belgian team leader and confidant of Armstrong, ed) never returned to the sport. But the real problem is that someone like Ferrari not punished. "

I wish Greg wouldn't sit on the fence so much.

(from twitter @TourdeJose)
 
joe_papp

joe_papp

May 13, 2009
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pre-USPSConspiracy remarks from Bode Miller

Pre-USPSConspiracy by several years but still worth a look:

1) Bode Miller

2) Right now, if you want to cheat, you can: Barry Bonds and those guys are just knowingly cheating, but there’s all sorts of loopholes,” he told the magazine. “If you say it has to be ‘knowingly,’ you do what Lance (Armstrong) and all those guys do, where every morning their doctor gives them a box of pills and they don’t ask anything, they just take the pills.”

3) http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/11045824/ - updated 3:23 p.m. ET Jan. 29, 2006
 
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pelodee

May 29, 2012
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1) Bradley Wiggins/Wiggo - 2012 Tour de France winner

2) "...To go toe-to-toe with him in 2009 was a dream come true. He revolutionised the sport and brought it to a much wider audience. His cancer survival story is incredible, and the sport has a great deal to thank him for – not least for raising its profile so that big sponsors are attracted to it."

3) Daily Mail*, 23 June 2012

*http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Daily_Mail
 
Parrulo

Parrulo

Aug 5, 2010
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pelodee said:
1) Bradley Wiggins/Wiggo - 2012 Tour de France winner

2) "...To go toe-to-toe with him in 2009 was a dream come true. He revolutionised the sport and brought it to a much wider audience. His cancer survival story is incredible, and the sport has a great deal to thank him for – not least for raising its profile so that big sponsors are attracted to it."

3) Daily Mail*, 23 June 2012

*http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Daily_Mail
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lolwut. . . getting a bit ahead of ourselves aren't we?

i am really surprised so few cyclists are talking about this, i mean where are the "i hope he dies" tweets we saw when ricco was busted for the second time?

i would say armstrong situation is incomparably worse then ricco's as his results/doping are across a spam of a decade on the biggest race while ricco didn't ride a really important race after his return before being caught again.
 
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pelodee

May 29, 2012
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Parrulo said:
lolwut. . . getting a bit ahead of ourselves aren't we?

i am really surprised so few cyclists are talking about this, i mean where are the "i hope he dies" tweets we saw when ricco was busted for the second time?

i would say armstrong situation is incomparably worse then ricco's as his results/doping are across a spam of a decade on the biggest race while ricco didn't ride a really important race after his return before being caught again.
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;)I don't know whether he will win but the cycling/sport media seem to think only one or two riders are racing.

Also, there's never been any disgusting comments about prison rape.
 
joe_papp

joe_papp

May 13, 2009
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Parrulo said:
...i am really surprised so few cyclists are talking about this, i mean where are the "i hope he dies" tweets we saw when ricco was busted for the second time?

i would say armstrong situation is incomparably worse then ricco's as his results/doping are across a spam of a decade on the biggest race while ricco didn't ride a really important race after his return before being caught again.
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Are you surprised, or just disappointed? Thinking about it, I realize that I'm disappointed, but totally not surprised, as who wants to make an enemy of someone with as much money and power as Armstrong, even if he's in disfavor?

pelodee said:
;)...Also, there's never been any disgusting comments about prison rape.
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I certainly remember the fans and many here in the forums crowing about their dreams of seeing Lance get buttfcked in prison, which is a foul, vile, evil thing to wish upon anyone, for no one deserves to be sexually brutalized as part of their incarceration.

Anyway, this far along since USADA announced the USPSConspiracy, those few athletes who've spoken out against Lance certainly seem to have brass balls by comparison to the rest of the tepid peloton...

Alpe d'Huez said:
This is a good thread, and I hope it doesn't get bogged down...
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PS. Bravo to everyone for showing admirable restraint in not bogging-down this thread with extraneous commentary (current post excepted, of course ;)
 
Parrulo

Parrulo

Aug 5, 2010
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i am not surprised, just disappointed as this is just further proof of the hypocrisy that exists at the moment on the peloton.

Ricco was an easy target so every decided to wave the i am super clean flag and attack him while he was down. Since armstrong is still strong no1 is having the guts to do it, i wonder if he is exposed publicly as the fraud he is, the same guys who attacked ricco will take this chance to "prove they are clean"
 
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TechnicalDescent

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May 13, 2012
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It is a mind field for pros. This is why Wiggins stopped really speaking out against dopers and highlighted the hypocrisy of people who attacked Vino's return. Where do you draw the line? Should he refuse to shake Eddie Merckx's hand, refuse to talk to Sean Kelly? Stop saying Tommy Simpson is one of his heroes? Sadly it's better to say nothing about anyone or you'll be accused of hypocrisy. The better way is to lead by example, like i believe Garmin and Sky are doing very successfully, not make a big show of naming names and condemning people.
 
thehog

thehog

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Jul 27, 2009
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Parrulo said:
i am not surprised, just disappointed as this is just further proof of the hypocrisy that exists at the moment on the peloton.

Ricco was an easy target so every decided to wave the i am super clean flag and attack him while he was down. Since armstrong is still strong no1 is having the guts to do it, i wonder if he is exposed publicly as the fraud he is, the same guys who attacked ricco will take this chance to "prove they are clean"
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Don't worry most riders will tell the press all about "..done a lot of good for cycling and cancer" and when you have a beer with them they'll have a brief look around and then say "...the guy was a total *******, no respect whatsoever for him".
 
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noddy69

Oct 4, 2011
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thehog said:
Don't worry most riders will tell the press all about "..done a lot of good for cycling and cancer" and when you have a beer with them they'll have a brief look around and then say "...the guy was a total *******, no respect whatsoever for him".
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I wonder what they will say if the charges hold and suddenly everyone who backed him for what he has done for cycling, or translate to their net worth, is found out to be lying through their teeth.

Whole careers of other cyclists are gonna be questioned if the disease goes down, their morals and reputations damaged all to cover for one particularly venomous despicable man. What will they all say then, when its too late to repent. If he goes down, the rest will go with him, rightly.

All if he is guilty mind you.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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noddy69 said:
I wonder what they will say if the charges hold and suddenly everyone who backed him for what he has done for cycling, or translate to their net worth, is found out to be lying through their teeth.

Whole careers of other cyclists are gonna be questioned if the disease goes down, their morals and reputations damaged all to cover for one particularly venomous despicable man. What will they all say then, when its too late to repent. If he goes down, the rest will go with him, rightly.

All if he is guilty mind you.
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Nah, if Armstrong gets what is coming to him, most of the peloton will sing from the new hymn sheet and the so called cycling media will copy and paste without blinking. Cycling media is a joke. End of!
 
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thingswelike

May 6, 2009
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joe_papp

joe_papp

May 13, 2009
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thingswelike said:
Hmmm - I didn't read it as cynically as you. I thought there were some interesting quotes in there.
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I found it to be more cynical and disappointing, though not surprising. You could almost hear the desperation in the voices of Brailsford and Cancellara to keep the blinders firmly on and refuse to acknowledge the reality of the investigation - that it tracks doping violations up to the present day.

If there's one myth being propagated concerning USADA's case, it's that it has to do only with past violations.

Thankfully VeloNews comes close to getting it right:

"USADA, however, is pushing forward with allegations of widespread doping during the period spanning from 1999-2011."

and

"But USADA is an independent agency pursuing its mission removed from the internal interests of professional cycling. Still, many insiders expressed the collective weariness about the ongoing allegations that have dogged Armstrong during much of his active career and have followed him into retirement from cycling."

Vaughters, however, has lost what little anti-doping respect I had for him:

"When asked by VeloNews if allegations against Armstrong were relevant to the peloton of the modern Tour de France, Vaughters was succinct.

“I don’t think it’s relevant at all. Zero relevance. It’s irrelevant to this Tour de France,” Vaughters said. “I’m here to run a great team to do the best Tour we can after winning our first grand tour. We have to leave it at that.”"

are you kidding me?!

Lastly, if Brian Holm is really feeling sorry for the "new guys," who he claims "get mad" when there's a doping case (not simply "doping" lol), then he should explain to them that they should be mad at Armstrong for prolonging the agony by refusing to confess...

"“I feel sorry for guys like Mark Cavendish, Tony Martin, Bradley Wiggins. They had nothing to do with the past,” said ex-pro Brian Holm, who admitted that he took EPO during his racing years at Telekom in the 1990s.

“I believe that the new guys are clean,” Holm continued. “They are not doing a thing that’s wrong. People should believe that. From what I have seen, these new guys are doing things the right way. They really get mad when there is a doping case today. They get very angry, because they know there are still stupid guys who will try to cheat. The majority of the peloton is clean.”"
 
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montagna lunga

Aug 4, 2009
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joe_papp said:
I found it to be more cynical and disappointing, though not surprising. You could almost hear the desperation in the voices of Brailsford and Cancellara to keep the blinders firmly on and refuse to acknowledge the reality of the investigation - that it tracks doping violations up to the present day. If there's one myth being propagated concerning USADA's case, it's that it has to do only with past violations. Thankfully VeloNews comes close to getting it right: "USADA, however, is pushing forward with allegations of widespread doping during the period spanning from 1999-2011." and "But USADA is an independent agency pursuing its mission removed from the internal interests of professional cycling. Still, many insiders expressed the collective weariness about the ongoing allegations that have dogged Armstrong during much of his active career and have followed him into retirement from cycling." Vaughters, however, has lost what little anti-doping respect I had for him: "When asked by VeloNews if allegations against Armstrong were relevant to the peloton of the modern Tour de France, Vaughters was succinct. “I don’t think it’s relevant at all. Zero relevance. It’s irrelevant to this Tour de France,” Vaughters said. “I’m here to run a great team to do the best Tour we can after winning our first grand tour. We have to leave it at that.”" are you kidding me?! Lastly, if Brian Holm is really feeling sorry for the "new guys," who he claims "get mad" when there's a doping case (not simply "doping" lol), then he should explain to them that they should be mad at Armstrong for prolonging the agony by refusing to confess..."“I feel sorry for guys like Mark Cavendish, Tony Martin, Bradley Wiggins. They had nothing to do with the past,” said ex-pro Brian Holm, who admitted that he took EPO during his racing years at Telekom in the 1990s. “I believe that the new guys are clean,” Holm continued. “They are not doing a thing that’s wrong. People should believe that. From what I have seen, these new guys are doing things the right way. They really get mad when there is a doping case today. They get very angry, because they know there are still stupid guys who will try to cheat. The majority of the peloton is clean.”"
Click to expand...

I like the quote in your signature line, it is an ironic counterpoint to persistently fanning flames for USADA and its funding sources :

"There is a proper dignity and proportion to be observed in the performance of every act of life"
 
Race Radio

Race Radio

Aug 13, 2009
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Vaughters is correct. Armstrong is irrelevant.

The sport has compartmentalized Lance, put him and his co-conspirators in a box. What USADA is doing has little effect on the Tour, the sport has moved one.

Of course his irrelevancy drives Lance crazy. He thinks that by bringing him down the sport will be brought done. The sport does not care about the problems of an age group Tri Athlete.

Irrelevant
 
MarkvW

MarkvW

Aug 10, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Vaughters is correct. Armstrong is irrelevant.

The sport has compartmentalized Lance, put him and his co-conspirators in a box. What USADA is doing has little effect on the Tour, the sport has moved one.

Of course his irrelevancy drives Lance crazy. He thinks that by bringing him down the sport will be brought done. The sport does not care about the problems of an age group Tri Athlete.

Irrelevant
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There was a Michelob Ultra commercial on the TdF today, and it didn't feature Lance.
 
thehog

thehog

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Jul 27, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Vaughters is correct. Armstrong is irrelevant.

The sport has compartmentalized Lance, put him and his co-conspirators in a box. What USADA is doing has little effect on the Tour, the sport has moved one.

Of course his irrelevancy drives Lance crazy. He thinks that by bringing him down the sport will be brought done. The sport does not care about the problems of an age group Tri Athlete.

Irrelevant
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+1

I'm told at the ASO official dinners during the Tour they give our a guide to the guests. All modern day Tour riders appear in print bar one age group Tri athlete.

Irrelevant.
 
BroDeal

BroDeal

Mar 18, 2009
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mewmewmew13 said:
What??? :eek:

keeping him under wraps until the investigation blows over

..or maybe they are working on a new ad with Lance dressed in tri gear and a new kool crowd
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They are going to bring back Zima with Armstrong as the spokesman.

"No hair on your chest? Unwilling to cowboy up and admit mistakes? Tired of being tired of being tired? Try zomething different. Zima!"
 
frenchfry

frenchfry

Mar 13, 2009
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I have been watching bits of the TDF coverage and Thierry Adam manages to get in a flattering reference to Armstrong about every 1/2 hour. Did you know he received the most letters one year? Adam is there to remind us.

Any reference to the USADA accusations is blown off with "I remind you Armstrong has never tested positive and has never been sanctioned". Until now that is Thierry.
 
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