Rediscovering an admiration for C. Evans

[tgsgirl]

how else would you interpret as honoured?

I don't know. I was thinking more along the lines of won something, finished high, raced well... that sort of honoured. My definition may be way off, I admit (not a native speaker, if that's an excuse).

 

[Cervelo77]

Oh, and can we please drop the he doesn't have a team to support him junk. If he doesn't this year, Cadel is the only person to blame. He was not forced to go to BMC. He chose, of his own free will, to come to a team that would not be able to properly support him. It was obviously a risk he was willing to take.

I think they're looking towards 2011 as being the year they have a better team to support him in the Tour. I think he has admitted as much in interviews. Cadel fought hard, he just was a little off form on some key stages and couldn't hold the climbing pace. Great attack at the end of stage 20, too bad he left it just a little too late otherwise he might have got the stage win.

EDIT
By the way, I'm not saying Evans could have won the Giro -- I think Liquigas were too strong for that possibility, but he could have made the podium.

 

[Angliru]

more balls than brains maybe and when you are generally despised the bunch can make it harder on you. and why does a GT contender never have a team to support him when so many teams need a star? you can blame it on bum luck but i think no one wants to deal with the guy.

ed rader

I'm inclined to agree. A rider of his stature should be able to draw talent that's willing to support him in his quest. In Evans' case that simply doesn't happen. Additionally his assault of the Italian rider for slowing down the peloton while Evans was hoping to catch a dangerous break really should have resulted in his expulsion from the event. All this while wearing the WC stripes. His later words to the media that the Italian's efforts were not the norm in the sport were rooted in either naivete or simply single-minded blind denial of the traditions of cycling.

Otherwise, in contrast he has represented the WC stripes better than anyone since Paulo Bettini, completely avoiding the WC jinx. If he could only get his emotions in order, which at this point in his career is quite doubtful, he may be able to get a team to support him in the mountains. I'm afraid though, that his reputation in the sport is such that finding those willing to sacrifice all for him are few and far between. Even his fellow Aussies were divided about who should be the protected rider in WC's.

 

[Angliru]

Sometimes the truth is difficult to swallow. Why does it have to be categorized as "hate" when it is simply opposite to your own view?

 

[offbyone]

Wheel sucking aside, Evans makes it really difficult to get behind him with his constant excuse making and tantrums when things don't go his way. It would be one thing if it were limited to a couple isolated incidents, but at this point he has clearly established a consistent pattern of this ugly behavior.

 

[Angliru]

**********************************************************
Actually Lotto never had a GC contender until Evans. He raised their profile as much as they helped him. Also he extended his contract after they advised him that they were buying Kohl and Dekker who both turned out to be deadbeat druggo's. Sastre jumped to Cervelo after he won the TDF. Evans showed more loyalty than most after sticking with Lotto for so long. Evans has been saying for the past three days that "Basso is stronger and has the best team." That seems pretty crystal clear to me. That's not whining. That's a fact.

I'm confused as to how you can compare Sastre's jumping to Cervelo, a team that he was instrumental in forming, and Evans moving to BMC, a team that already existed prior to his move. Loyalty goes both ways, Sastre had been the epitome of the consumate pro at CSC for years, while Evans has bounced around from team to team always blaming his team for a lack of support, lack of direction and/or lack of his needed attention. Evans and Sastre are opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

[High Cotton]

Talk about 'obnoxious'

I see the truth still hurts?

So what other people think has such a hold on you? Can't make up your mind and be your own person?

Only when I read the forums; the first part of my post illustrates how I feel about him when I don't have to read through ridiculous fanboyish posts to get to the heart of a discussion

I think they're looking towards 2011 as being the year they have a better team to support him in the Tour. I think he has admitted as much in interviews. Cadel fought hard, he just was a little off form on some key stages and couldn't hold the climbing pace. Great attack at the end of stage 20, too bad he left it just a little too late otherwise he might have got the stage win.

EDIT
By the way, I'm not saying Evans could have won the Giro -- I think Liquigas were too strong for that possibility, but he could have made the podium.

Seems perfectly sensible to me. I just dislike it when people rag on the people that try their hardest to support him but are just not talented enough to do so. It isn't fair to them. It was Cadel's choice to move to BMC, and the people that BMC has are doing their best to support him. Now, if, in the coming years, he still doesn't have any support, I would understand why people would knock the team.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Sometimes the truth is difficult to swallow. Why does it have to be categorized as "hate" when it is simply opposite to your own view?

You can use the WC example but they said gerro was the better suited rider. I don't seee how a WC and two time 2nd tdf rider could not attract riders to there team.

 

[delbified]

cadel has got a big heart. he rode stages of the Giro with a temperature and gastro problems. that's a big effort and you have to wonder where he'd have finished if he was riding 100%. he could easily have 4 GC titles to his name, really in my opinion he should have 3 of those if you look at who 'won' them.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No such thing as second chances in your world huh? Do something once, that means everything you ever do is tainted?

I know Basso is dodgy. I know Valverde is dodgy. We can suspect Contador and/or Sastre. But is there any evidence that Valverde's 2009 Vuelta win was ill-gotten? We can debate whether or not he should have been allowed to be riding at that point until the cows come home, the point is that he DID ride that race, and there is no more evidence that he doped during it than there is evidence that Evans doped during it.

Not to mention that, while he was 2nd to Contador and Sastre (who are not known dopers, even if they may be suspected), he was not second to Valverde or Basso. If Valverde's result were to be stricken from the record it would be Sammy Sánchez who won that Vuelta, not Cuddles. And if Basso's result were to be stricken from the record it would be Arroyo who won the Giro, and Cuddles still wouldn't be on the podium. So he wouldn't have 'won' 3 of those Grand Tours. He'd have 2, at best.

Cuddles is not a less talented rider than Denis Menchov. Denis Menchov, however, knows his limits, has worked within them, and has amassed three Grand Tour wins. In the 2009 Giro he didn't have much team support either; he did have Laurens Ten Dam trying to kill himself for him though. And Menchov beat a whole host of those suspicious riders who beat Evans.

Cadel has bags of talent and a big heart, but to say he should have 3 or 4 GC titles to his name is revisionist history, unless you've decided to scrub Samuel Sánchez - who outrode Evans in the Vuelta - out of the history books. He's too good a rider to retire without ever winning one, but to rewrite history to put him as having been screwed over is ridiculous.

 

[this_is_edie]

well I had re-discovered a sense of admiration for Evans until he opened his mouth to say he was sick during the Giro. Another excuse.

 

[M Sport]

The only thing I dislike about Evans is the obnoxious bunch of chamois sniffers that support him on this forum. They make it really, really easy to pull for him to do poorly.

That's fair comment. ACF needs to tone it down a few notches. I live in Australia, am not Australian though but have a healthy respect for Cadels talents. He doesn't endear people to him with his personality though like say a Mick Rogers does, or Robbie McEwen.

I was never a big fan of Cadels until last year, I'm still not a big fan, just think he's under rated and hope he wins at least one GT one day. I have heard some legendary stories about his training from some locals here. Sounds insane.

 

[yourwelcome]

Sometimes the truth is difficult to swallow. Why does it have to be categorized as "hate" when it is simply opposite to your own view?

Sure, not liking Evans shouldn't automatically fall in the category of 'hate'.

But when that point of view is phrased in terms such as 'obnoxious chamois sniffers' for instance, it probably conforms well enough to the slang definition of 'hating'.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But the point, Mr.-Bad-Grammar-In-Your-Username, is not that the poster hates Evans, but that he hates sycophantic fans. One surmises that the effect would be the same if a huge number of fans on the forums were going doolally over the achievements of Johan Tschopp, and turning every thread into a comparison of riders against Johan Tschopp, why he's great and taking every criticism of Tschopp, no matter how minor, as a grave personal insult.

People like acf are pretty knowledgable and intelligent when it comes to the sport. But when it comes to Evans, down come the blinkers, and he'll wilfully forget everything. Sportzchick moaned about Basso not being castigated for wheelsucking when he didn't help Scarponi and Evans chase Nibali on the descent of Monte Grappa, and said Evans was the only person the forum ever accused of wheelsucking (neglecting the abuse José Serpa has taken on this board in the last two months, and ignoring several peoples' explanations as to why Basso wasn't 'wheelsucking' but doing good tactical racing) - clearly selective and biased memory.

Think of it like a piece of music or a comedy routine. You hear something that is alright, you know, it's pleasant, inoffensive, nice enough but you're not tempted to rush out and buy it. But then after a few weeks, it's everywhere. Every shop you go in is playing this record, your friends are quoting it, every time you turn on the radio or MTV, every time you go to a pub or club, there it is. Very quickly you become sick of it. After a while it's like "not this f$%*ing song again!!!"

That's not Evans' fault, but hearing about how great he is 24/7 by people who get incredibly defensive about the slightest criticism of their man is going to put some people off.

 

[delbified]

No such thing as second chances in your world huh? Do something once, that means everything you ever do is tainted?

it depends what it is. doping is not on my list of second chance offences. it's poisonous for the sport and there is no reason to tolerate it. if Cuddles was a doper, i'd drop him instantly. i can't support El Pistolero or Valverde. it's like trying to be friends with someone you suspect has slept with your wife, you can try but it's unclear why you would and it won't work anyway.

 

[M Sport]

So let me get this right, delbified. You suspect Contador of doping but not Evans? Now, I'm not saying they both are, or both aren't. But one thing is for sure, if they both finish 30 seconds apart on a TdF in 1st and 2nd then they are both equally innocent, or guilty.

 

[delbified]

So let me get this right, delbified. You suspect Contador of doping but not Evans? Now, I'm not saying they both are, or both aren't. But one thing is for sure, if they both finish 30 seconds apart on a TdF in 1st and 2nd then they are both equally innocent, or guilty.

using that logic, anyone who wins a bike race should be automatically disqualified for doping. El Pistolero was caught up in Operacion Puerto, Cuddles wasn't, nor has he ever had credible suspicions over him. that doesn't mean he's clean, but it means he's entitled to a presumption of cleanliness. El Pistolero isn't.

 

[M Sport]

Ah no, using that logic would be idiotic. Disqualification requires some proof. I was merely asking you to confirm that you suspect one rider, but not the other. It seems that was the case.

 

[locker]

M Sport what is your problem???

 

[M Sport]

No problem at all. Was just clarifying the double standard. There is as much suspicion out there about Cadel and GH as there is with Contador and blood doping. I don't really care either way until anyone gets busted but I don't like the double standards and the insuation that one rider out there doing pretty well in Gt's is much cleaner than the others.

 

[Ferminal]

Seems perfectly sensible to me. I just dislike it when people rag on the people that try their hardest to support him but are just not talented enough to do so. It isn't fair to them. It was Cadel's choice to move to BMC, and the people that BMC has are doing their best to support him. Now, if, in the coming years, he still doesn't have any support, I would understand why people would knock the team.

Annoys me too. BMC riders worked endlessly and just because they're not top-tier performers, people throw words around like "Cadel had a rubbish team" "no support".

BMC will do some signings again this year and will look much more like a ProTour team in 2011. They have the budget, it's just a matter of finding the right cattle.

 

[delbified]

There is as much suspicion out there about Cadel and GH as there is with Contador and blood doping.

that's just not true. where is the suspicion over Cuddles?

 

[Vanspringel]

Contributers to forums have a tendency to think that only the winner of a GT rode well and all other efforts were rubbish. They then bring into play their personal likes or dislikes of particular riders and let this colour their judgement and get into huge arguments back and forth. If you look at a ten year period (a good lifetime for most riders) only 30 riders maximum will get their names on the records as winners of a GT. Given that some riders will win more than one this reduces the list even further. So its no surprise that few riders will ever be that good/lucky.

So leaving aside the drug issue, we should applaud ALL riders who try to win but maybe fail. Give Arroyo, Scarponi, Evans, Vino etc their due and applaud their efforts in what was a great race. The fact they didn't win doesn't make them any less worthy. Also hating or loving riders is bogus when to be honest most of us don't know them personally and why we hate or love them is pretty tenuous.

Relax and enjoy the best sport in the world!

 

[High Cotton]

Sure, not liking Evans shouldn't automatically fall in the category of 'hate'.

But when that point of view is phrased in terms such as 'obnoxious chamois sniffers' for instance, it probably conforms well enough to the slang definition of 'hating'.

You see, this is where you and your ilk have problems. When I use the phrase "obnoxious chamois sniffers," I am referring to you. I hate you and people like you, not Cadel. Your inability to see things from any other perspective than from the "Cadel is the best rider ever" perspective makes viewing this forum annoying. Do you understand the difference, or are you really that thick?

Cadel has his weakness, both as a person and as a rider, but who among us doesn't? He's undergone an amazing transformation in the last year, and he is a lot of fun to watch, but he isn't God; he has weaknesses, both physically and tactically, and it shouldn't be a crime, and you shouldn't have to be labeled a 'hater' when you acknowledge the truth.

 

[FatBoy]

No problem at all. Was just clarifying the double standard. There is as much suspicion out there about Cadel and GH as there is with Contador and blood doping.

This is a troll, surely ? You making this up to prove your point perhaps ?

I've followed Cadel for 10+ years and never heard anything like this. And Operacion Puerto was pretty damning to anyone implicated - there's no double standard that I can see.