Rediscovering an admiration for C. Evans

[danjo007]

i have much more admiration for a guy who blows up trying every day, than a guy who sits in for second.

you'll never ever win if you always follow.

 

[Ferminal]

i have much more admiration for a guy who blows up trying every day, than a guy who sits in for second.

you'll never ever win if you always follow.

Who in the Giro didn't "blow up" trying?

 

[richwagmn]

I couldn't agree more. The guy seems to have turned a corner after his worlds win. He should still learn NOT to talk badly about his team to the press. But, the guy wears his heart on his sleeve and can't seem to help himself.

Not sure if he'll win a GT or not, but he might have many more one day races in him.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

i have much more admiration for a guy who blows up trying every day, than a guy who sits in for second.

you'll never ever win if you always follow.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[Sydney Sider]

well I had re-discovered a sense of admiration for Evans until he opened his mouth to say he was sick during the Giro. Another excuse.

I am an Evans fan but it annoyed me he came out and said this , with the weather conditions they were riding in i wouldnt be surprised if half the riders got sick over the journey , its just part and parcel of the sport .

If Contador came out after Fleche Wallone and said i was feeling sick that day so i couldnt give 100% would that take away the merit of Cadels victory , you can only beat the riders in front of you and Basso and LQ were unmatched this year

 

[delbified]

why should he hide it? it's a fact, if he had a 38 deg. temperature that's what he had. as a cycling fan, it's interesting to know what impacted on his performance.

 

[Martin318is]

Since his possible illness was a well-travelled rumour during the mid-part of the race, in a way its fair enough to confirm or deny the rumour. I do think its pretty dumb to do it in the first person though. He would have been better to let it come out through a comment from the team doctor or something like that. Otherwise you get the reaction above for no benefit.

 

[dgodave]

i have much more admiration for a guy who blows up trying every day, than a guy who sits in for second.

you'll never ever win if you always follow.

Evans was flat out beat on the super steep climbs. He didnt go half assed.
.
On other occasions he was quite aggressive. Moreso than Basso, (who didnt need to show aggression.)
.

 

[clashb02]

I love these haters - won't respect Cadel because it seems that other riders don't like him? A rider who's come 2nd twice in TdF, 3rd in the our of Spain and now 5th in the Giro. You mate, are 100% wan*er.

Reread my post and comment again after you actually think about it.

Nothing I said had anything to do with his abilities as a racer. Obviously he's good. He is, however, also a complete dic*head (since we're symbolizing k's now).

 

[biker jk]

But the point, Mr.-Bad-Grammar-In-Your-Username, is not that the poster hates Evans, but that he hates sycophantic fans. One surmises that the effect would be the same if a huge number of fans on the forums were going doolally over the achievements of Johan Tschopp, and turning every thread into a comparison of riders against Johan Tschopp, why he's great and taking every criticism of Tschopp, no matter how minor, as a grave personal insult.

People like acf are pretty knowledgable and intelligent when it comes to the sport. But when it comes to Evans, down come the blinkers, and he'll wilfully forget everything. Sportzchick moaned about Basso not being castigated for wheelsucking when he didn't help Scarponi and Evans chase Nibali on the descent of Monte Grappa, and said Evans was the only person the forum ever accused of wheelsucking (neglecting the abuse José Serpa has taken on this board in the last two months, and ignoring several peoples' explanations as to why Basso wasn't 'wheelsucking' but doing good tactical racing) - clearly selective and biased memory.

Think of it like a piece of music or a comedy routine. You hear something that is alright, you know, it's pleasant, inoffensive, nice enough but you're not tempted to rush out and buy it. But then after a few weeks, it's everywhere. Every shop you go in is playing this record, your friends are quoting it, every time you turn on the radio or MTV, every time you go to a pub or club, there it is. Very quickly you become sick of it. After a while it's like "not this f$%*ing song again!!!"

That's not Evans' fault, but hearing about how great he is 24/7 by people who get incredibly defensive about the slightest criticism of their man is going to put some people off.

I wouldn't classify the "wheelsucker" tag that has been all too prevalent on this forum from the usual suspects as slight criticism (and which has been shown to be unjustified). There's clearly a double standard when it comes to criticism of Cadel Evans' character. He has a few incidents with journalists and receives a torrent of negative psychoanalysis but Contador and Valverde dope away, yet are regarded as great guys. It does smell like Eurotrash double standards at play.

 

[delbified]

He has a few incidents with journalists and receives a torrent of negative psychoanalysis but Contador and Valverde dope away, yet are regarded as great guys. It does smell like Eurotrash double standards at play.

i'm dubious of journalists. they are aggressive and rude and won't hesitate to roast anyone who reacts with anything less than contrite politeness.

cadel lives in Barwon Heads in the off season, and numerous people who have encountered him 'off camera' have testified that he is a nice guy. i know of someone who came across him on his bike and had a friendly chat with him.

to me, the problem is that people read something in the media and take it as fact. ok, so the camera doesn't lie, but the point is, he clearly doesn't react well under pressure from aggressive journos. it's unjustified to judge his character on that basis alone.

 

[beroepsrenner]

Contributers to forums have a tendency to think that only the winner of a GT rode well and all other efforts were rubbish. They then bring into play their personal likes or dislikes of particular riders and let this colour their judgement and get into huge arguments back and forth. If you look at a ten year period (a good lifetime for most riders) only 30 riders maximum will get their names on the records as winners of a GT. Given that some riders will win more than one this reduces the list even further. So its no surprise that few riders will ever be that good/lucky.

So leaving aside the drug issue, we should applaud ALL riders who try to win but maybe fail. Give Arroyo, Scarponi, Evans, Vino etc their due and applaud their efforts in what was a great race. The fact they didn't win doesn't make them any less worthy. Also hating or loving riders is bogus when to be honest most of us don't know them personally and why we hate or love them is pretty tenuous.

Relax and enjoy the best sport in the world!

Well done Herman!!! This is the best and most intelligent post I have read on this forum in a long time. I endorse your comments 100%

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I wouldn't classify the "wheelsucker" tag that has been all too prevalent on this forum from the usual suspects as slight criticism (and which has been shown to be unjustified). There's clearly a double standard when it comes to criticism of Cadel Evans' character. He has a few incidents with journalists and receives a torrent of negative psychoanalysis but Contador and Valverde dope away, yet are regarded as great guys. It does smell like Eurotrash double standards at play.

The thing is, as we all know, 'nice guy' is not any indicator of cleanliness - just look at Mikel Astarloza or Isidro Nozal, two of the nicest men you could ever hope to meet.

Also, where is your evidence that Valverde is 'doping away'? He was involved in Puerto, yes. That was 2006. He was involved in Grial, yes. That was 2003-4. He was linked to Humanplasma, but ONLY by the head of the Italian federation, who has an axe to grind in that situation, and no evidence has come to light. Where is the evidence that he's doping now?

Valverde is like the anti-Cuddles. He's well-liked in the péloton, but demonised hypocritically on the forums. I have no problem with demonising dopers, but it's applied so inconsistently, it's like a dice has been rolled and it's told us all to forgive Vino and destroy Valverde.




Back to Cuddles and the topic at hand; partly his history precedes and destroys him. Xavi Tondó explained that he had been ill and was becoming fatigued at the end of week 2; he told us after the Zoncolán stage that he would have quit during week 2 had he not suddenly found himself up in 3rd in the GC on the L'Aquila stage. Linus Gerdemann told us he was suffering with bronchitis. By all rights we should accept Evans' explanation that he was ill; it was rumoured and talked about a lot, so in essence all he's doing is confirming speculation. But because Evans has a history of whining and making excuses, blaming everything but himself for failings that often were to do with him himself, people aren't willing to accept it from him. On the stage to Xorret del Catí in the Vuelta, when Evans was wearing the maillot oro, Robert Gesink spoiled Evans' sprint, Valverde took the eight bonus seconds remaining, and got the race lead. Evans may not have beaten Valverde anyway (Valverde is probably the better sprinter) but he never had the chance to compete fairly for it. He unleashed a flurry of invective at the Dutchman and tried to headbutt him. In all honesty, Evans had a case (even if he should have kept his emotions in check, just like he should have done with Righi in the Giro), but when he starts firing the excuse cannon, it's like a safety valve for him. It's almost as if he doesn't feel comfortable until he has a viable excuse out there... "I'd have won it if it weren't for..." People have got so used to Evans making excuses for not winning that they don't believe him when he has a legitimate excuse.

See also: Hoste, Leif.

 

[auscyclefan94]

i'm dubious of journalists. they are aggressive and rude and won't hesitate to roast anyone who reacts with anything less than contrite politeness.

cadel lives in Barwon Heads in the off season, and numerous people who have encountered him 'off camera' have testified that he is a nice guy. i know of someone who came across him on his bike and had a friendly chat with him.

to me, the problem is that people read something in the media and take it as fact. ok, so the camera doesn't lie, but the point is, he clearly doesn't react well under pressure from aggressive journos. it's unjustified to judge his character on that basis alone.

I have too. Great guy!

Evans was flat out beat on the super steep climbs. He didnt go half assed.
.
On other occasions he was quite aggressive. Moreso than Basso, (who didnt need to show aggression.)
.

Yes, but his form had faded and illness did not help, everyone had worried about if he would fall away and they were right. He has to blame his form fading on himself as his form has faded twice in the past year of the giro. If that is his coaches fault or bmc's fault also well i am not sure but he needs to sort that out. he is too good of a rider to not at least have 1 gt to his name if not more.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It can't be his coach's fault since his coach also coaches Basso, who didn't have a problem with that.

I think he was hampered by the pressure of having to hold his form for so long, and a lot of that has to do with his choice of team. The depth at BMC is lacking at present. Many of the younger riders have potential, but they aren't able to take the pressure for results at the team off his shoulders yet. Many of us around the forum voiced our concerns that he would tail off in week 3 and we were right. He is too good a rider to retire without a single GC win, but the longer we go on, the more it seems likely. As he begins to sense it too, it will probably only get worse as he'll get more desperate.

 

[beroepsrenner]

I am an Evans fan but it annoyed me he came out and said this , with the weather conditions they were riding in i wouldnt be surprised if half the riders got sick over the journey , its just part and parcel of the sport .

If Contador came out after Fleche Wallone and said i was feeling sick that day so i couldnt give 100% would that take away the merit of Cadels victory , you can only beat the riders in front of you and Basso and LQ were unmatched this year

Your assumption is correct. With weather conditions as we saw them day after day in the Giro, sickness quickly spreads through the peloton via mucus droplets etc. flying everywhere, particularly with those that are getting fatigued.

 

[Angliru]

You can use the WC example but they said gerro was the better suited rider. I don't seee how a WC and two time 2nd tdf rider could not attract riders to there team.

...and yet the song remains the same: "If I had a stronger team......"

 

[Angliru]

Sure, not liking Evans shouldn't automatically fall in the category of 'hate'.

But when that point of view is phrased in terms such as 'obnoxious chamois sniffers' for instance, it probably conforms well enough to the slang definition of 'hating'.

Agreed. Well, I'm simply speaking for myself and personally try to avoid using such phrases and terms as "hater","chamois sniffer", "fanboy" or even "troll" in responding to posts. Better to have a civil discussion than to escalate the conversation into a pointless and unproductive exchange of insults.

 

[Angliru]

Annoys me too. BMC riders worked endlessly and just because they're not top-tier performers, people throw words around like "Cadel had a rubbish team" "no support".

BMC will do some signings again this year and will look much more like a ProTour team in 2011. They have the budget, it's just a matter of finding the right cattle.

Evans himself, as is his norm, never hesitates to mention the shortcomings of his teammates as it compares to his opponents' teams. In this case he was the master of his own fate and now conveniently uses his choice as another of many reasons for not ultimately winning. This needle on this old record is stuck in a groove and keeps playing over and over and over again. It just gets kinda' tired.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The question as to how a WC and 2-time TDF-runner-up can't attract riders to their team is worth asking.

The question is not whether they can attract riders (they can), but whether or not they can attract proven top quality domestiques. Bearing in mind Evans' reputation for criticising and not thanking his teammates, they may prefer to toil away for somebody who'll be less successful but more thankful, and improve their reputation so that the domestiques can gain in credibility and value too. You scratch my back, I scratch yours.

Now, where would these top domestiques be, and where would they go?

Radioshack - strong roster of Hog riders. Hog riders have a history of not being any good when they flee the nest. It pays to be with the Hog.
Liquigas - Basso has won two Giros and is thought of as a nice guy. Also, lots of secondary GT options means that you always feel like an integral part of the team even when you're not supporting the 'A' guy.
Caisse - Valverde has won a Vuelta and is a popular guy in the péloton. Also, lots of secondary options means that you always feel like an integral part of the team even when you're not supporting the 'A' guy.
Euskaltel - a great deal of national pride here, meaning some riders may be reluctant to flee that nest.
Columbia/Garmin - sprint trains. Different type of engines needed.
Saxo - very strong and well-drilled unit, covers almost all facets of the year. High profile, supporting a Tour runner-up and two-time white jersey who has a lot longer in his future than Evans, plus more chance of getting some races to work for yourself and guaranteed invites to the big races.
Astana - well, you'll be working for a two-time Tour winner who's also the youngest rider to ever win all three GTs.

This is the problem. There are domestiques out there willing to help Evans, but where are the people willing to leave those big units with other top GT riders (with better palmarès than Evans')? BMC have a roster of riders with a lot of potential and possibilities for the future, but aside from Hincapie, who isn't the engine he used to be, where are the experienced domestiques? It's all well and good having a good young roster, but you need to guide them, and you need to attract strong domestiques from the strong teams to prove that you're a progressive force.

See, for me, the smartest move Team Sky made was signing Kurt-Asle Arvesen. One of the most trusted and respected road captains in the business. That's the kind of signing BMC need. Get respected domestiques in their prime there. They need to prove to the toilers that their toiling is worthwhile.

 

[luckyboy]

How many people think that Evans will retire having won a GT? I would put some money (not an awful lot, due to poorness) on this happening..

 

[Angliru]

Back to Cuddles and the topic at hand; partly his history precedes and destroys him. Xavi Tondó explained that he had been ill and was becoming fatigued at the end of week 2; he told us after the Zoncolán stage that he would have quit during week 2 had he not suddenly found himself up in 3rd in the GC on the L'Aquila stage. Linus Gerdemann told us he was suffering with bronchitis. By all rights we should accept Evans' explanation that he was ill; it was rumoured and talked about a lot, so in essence all he's doing is confirming speculation. But because Evans has a history of whining and making excuses, blaming everything but himself for failings that often were to do with him himself, people aren't willing to accept it from him. On the stage to Xorret del Catí in the Vuelta, when Evans was wearing the maillot oro, Robert Gesink spoiled Evans' sprint, Valverde took the eight bonus seconds remaining, and got the race lead. Evans may not have beaten Valverde anyway (Valverde is probably the better sprinter) but he never had the chance to compete fairly for it. He unleashed a flurry of invective at the Dutchman and tried to headbutt him. In all honesty, Evans had a case (even if he should have kept his emotions in check, just like he should have done with Righi in the Giro), but when he starts firing the excuse cannon, it's like a safety valve for him. It's almost as if he doesn't feel comfortable until he has a viable excuse out there... "I'd have won it if it weren't for..." People have got so used to Evans making excuses for not winning that they don't believe him when he has a legitimate excuse.

See also: Hoste, Leif.

Actually he had no case in the Xorret del Cati stage of the 2009 Vuelta. The course had been set up where at that particular point the barrier jutted out slightly. That was the point where Evans was cutoff and of course he responded just as you described. There was no ill intent on the part of Gesink of course and I'm certain he himself was completely shocked and clueless as to what the hell Evans was bellowing about until later on. Of course Evans admitted that he was in error, as he did in this year's Giro after his ill advised mobile brawl with the Lampre rider Righi (sp) that he initiated. As I stated before he's a broken record of excuses and emotional explosions that only tends to undermine his significant abilities and accomplishments.

 

[Angliru]

How many people think that Evans will retire having won a GT? I would put some money (not an awful lot, due to poorness) on this happening..

His fans and supporters would say that he's too talented to go through his entire career without a GT win. I say that he wouldn't be the first rider with the ability to win a GT but to never stand on the top step of the podium. I'd say his destiny is in his hands. If he singularly focuses on the Tour as his ultimate goal at the expense of the Vuelta and Giro then he will retire without a GT win. Also by nature of his reputation I would think that his options for improving his chances of winning a grand tour get slimmer and slimmer after each of his public embarrassments. It doesn't endear him to lure potential quality domestiques and teammates nor does it increase the liklihood that at critical moments in races that he can rally help from riders that are not wearing the same jersey as him.

 

[Ferminal]

The question as to how a WC and 2-time TDF-runner-up can't attract riders to their team is worth asking.

The question is not whether they can attract riders (they can), but whether or not they can attract proven top quality domestiques. Bearing in mind Evans' reputation for criticising and not thanking his teammates, they may prefer to toil away for somebody who'll be less successful but more thankful, and improve their reputation so that the domestiques can gain in credibility and value too. You scratch my back, I scratch yours.

Now, where would these top domestiques be, and where would they go?

Radioshack - strong roster of Hog riders. Hog riders have a history of not being any good when they flee the nest. It pays to be with the Hog.
Liquigas - Basso has won two Giros and is thought of as a nice guy. Also, lots of secondary GT options means that you always feel like an integral part of the team even when you're not supporting the 'A' guy.
Caisse - Valverde has won a Vuelta and is a popular guy in the péloton. Also, lots of secondary options means that you always feel like an integral part of the team even when you're not supporting the 'A' guy.
Euskaltel - a great deal of national pride here, meaning some riders may be reluctant to flee that nest.
Columbia/Garmin - sprint trains. Different type of engines needed.
Saxo - very strong and well-drilled unit, covers almost all facets of the year. High profile, supporting a Tour runner-up and two-time white jersey who has a lot longer in his future than Evans, plus more chance of getting some races to work for yourself and guaranteed invites to the big races.
Astana - well, you'll be working for a two-time Tour winner who's also the youngest rider to ever win all three GTs.

This is the problem. There are domestiques out there willing to help Evans, but where are the people willing to leave those big units with other top GT riders (with better palmarès than Evans')? BMC have a roster of riders with a lot of potential and possibilities for the future, but aside from Hincapie, who isn't the engine he used to be, where are the experienced domestiques? It's all well and good having a good young roster, but you need to guide them, and you need to attract strong domestiques from the strong teams to prove that you're a progressive force.

See, for me, the smartest move Team Sky made was signing Kurt-Asle Arvesen. One of the most trusted and respected road captains in the business. That's the kind of signing BMC need. Get respected domestiques in their prime there. They need to prove to the toilers that their toiling is worthwhile.

Re-post if BMC don't make multiple signings at the end of this season, I think it was more a 3-year prospect (at least from Evans' perspective). Phonak 2.0 would be attractive to lots of riders.

If they aren't active in transfers though it's no different than his previous team where he couldn't convince the management (or potential signings) to build a genuine GC team. I thought a lot of his move to BMC was that he will have a greater say in the running of the team (which he should considering he will single handedly get them top10 in the UCI rankings).

How many people think that Evans will retire having won a GT? I would put some money (not an awful lot, due to poorness) on this happening..

Depends, he will obviously not win the Tour, or any race which AC is gunning for.

2010 Vuelta (non-starter)
2011 Giro (Contador)
2011 Vuelta
2012 Giro
2012 Vuelta (Contador???)

Unless he joins up with The Hog, it's unlikely he can be competitive after 35.

Valverde will probably be missing from the next two (potentially three if he's blacklisted) Vueltas so they will be the best chance he has of breaking the duck. Vuelta 2011, get your bets on!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well, the other thing with Lotto was that, in addition to being Belgian so needing a Classics focus, they also had no experience of building a genuine GC team so they went after it with all the intention in the world, but a combination of bad luck with their signings' integrity (Kohl, Dekker) and naïveté when it comes to compiling a Tour-contending team put paid to those chances.