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Renshaw out

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Mar 1, 2010
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Flying Scotsman

I feel like we are going back to the days of Graeme Obree. The "heads of state" don't like how well the Americans can race and will do whatever they can to put the thumb down on our advancements. If allowed to continue with ruling "on the fly" by bureaucratic non-cyclists this sport will take the dive similiar to NASCAR with their non-sport decisions.
 
kkbrown52 said:
I feel like we are going back to the days of Graeme Obree. The "heads of state" don't like how well the Americans can race and will do whatever they can to put the thumb down on our advancements. If allowed to continue with ruling "on the fly" by bureaucratic non-cyclists this sport will take the dive similiar to NASCAR with their non-sport decisions.

Which is why they disqualified the guy who endangered the American but levied no sanction against the American or his leadout man.

Nice work there bubba.
 
Jul 7, 2010
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Take the post in context...It's not about Renshaw being DQed to help Farrar. It's just another great example of officials jumping straight to HTC as far as any ramifications go for breaking rules...Its not about looking after Farrar, but punishing HTC.
 
abbaskip said:
Take the post in context...It's not about Renshaw being DQed to help Farrar. It's just another great example of officials jumping straight to HTC as far as any ramifications go for breaking rules...Its not about looking after Farrar, but punishing HTC.

So, barring Farrar's abandonment today (which seemed impossible given his sprint performance on that day), this selective attack on the American HTC team would have resulted in the greatest benefit going to.....another American team (Garmin), led not by a European sprinter (Cavendish), but by another American (Farrar).

Got it.
 
Oct 16, 2009
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MacRoadie said:
So, barring Farrar's abandonment today (which seemed impossible given his sprint performance on that day), this selective attack on the American HTC team would have resulted in the greatest benefit going to.....another American team (Garmin), led not by a European sprinter (Cavendish), but by another American (Farrar).

Got it.
Farrar speaks Dutch! No true 'Merican speaks Dutch!
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Andre j - belgium and pest control

Andre.J said:
I'm glad that little idiot Renshaw is out. They should also disqualify Cav's victory and penalize the team.

Mate you are from Belgium and work in pest control so aren't you embarrassed enough ...limit your losses and pull your head in. when you learn how sprinting and bike racing works come back to this site.

As for Tyler - Whats he ever won thats worth anything? If his transition lenses worked he'd be able to watch the replays and realise he is a substandard domestique at best.......and he his ginger!!
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Dewulf said:
umm, yeah, would that be so difficult? face it, MR knows Cav is on his wheel, and that likely one of the other sprinters is on Cav's. Cav goes, and until MR sees the other main sprinters pass himself, he has to assume they are about to come through. Hence he shouldn't have changed line.

This is a bit different from the usual sprint where the leadout man will peel off to one side, since the Farrar/Dean fracas prevented that. Still, my first paragraph applies, and though i feel a bit sorry for Mark, he acted poorly in the heat of the moment.

Guys - seriously???? watch the replays of the last few stages Farrar is put into the barriers by his own lead out man on more than one occasion. No complaints from him then? Not only that but he cant get himself organised for ****. The best place for him is in the sag wagon.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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njtruscott said:
Get off HTC'S back you stupid chump!:mad: if you watch the replays, it clearly shows tyler farrar take his hands from is bike, and as far as i'm aware thats not permited!
HTC always get penalised for winning, but then anything to help Thor win another green jersey-boring in my book!
As Renshaw said what he did is in no way worse then waht happens in any sprint.:mad:

Not only that watch the sprints from the last few days.....Farrar's own lead out man puts him into the barrier twice. He will always be the bridesmaid and never the bride.
 
Jul 15, 2010
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abbaskip said:
I never implied that they cause accidents.You, however, implied that headbutting does.

As for throwing a bidon, it's extremely bad sportsman shift and in NO circumstances is part of racing. If you read my previous post, I've already explained the reasons for headbutting. It is the safest way to react to someone cutting you off, or invading your space, when they may not realise that they are (or are purposely trying to cut you off). Dean changed lines to run into Renshaw in the first place...this is also against the rules, and caused the headbutt (to put Dean back where he was, and move Renshaw back off the barrier).

Its ok if you missinterpret what has happened on the stage, but try not to do the same with anything I have said.

You seem to think that your pet theory on headbutting is an absolute truth - which its not. Using your head and throwing your head are two different things. When Renshaw does his throwing the head antics it actually moves him to the left, Dean then fills the vacated space. Renshaws actions prevent him from holding his line, not anything that Dean does.

In my experience, and you may have won more bunch sprints than me, you use your head to clear space when you think you are going to be boxed in - not because there is any fear that you are going to fall off. If someone is going to push you from the side you just lean into them, which is an instinctive action - headbutting happens when you are thnking a couple of moves ahead. As I have said before, Renshaw was doing his job of trying to maintain options for his sprinter - its just that he did it in a pretty stupid and out of character way.

To say that Renshaws actions were in some way both his best and perhaps only option in this situation is im my mind delusional.
 
May 4, 2010
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It is fair that Renshaw should be relegated (but crazy to disqualify him) for the head butts but it is hard to understand why Dean was not given any penalty for the initial effort to elbow Renshaw off line. It is quite likely that if Dean hadn't started elbowing the events following would not have occured.

In any case they should have had a hearing. At least allow the riders involved to state their case. Even racing at local level in NSW, if there is a incident or a crash the commissaires interview the riders involved before allocating any blame.
 
May 25, 2010
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As an Australian i am embarrassed by the thuggery of Renshaw and am relieved to see him DQd. To add insult, the local media kept replaying his lame reasoning. The battle for the green jersey escalates after removing Cav's leg-up.
 
Jul 19, 2009
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This wouldn't be a problem if Farrar were faster

Whatever, dean hooked... he never hooked... head butting is normal... head butting is outrageous. You can argue all day (2 days, in fact) but the fact is that Farrar doesn't have it. You can hate on HTC all day and he still won't. Why was there any space between Farrar and Cav for Renshaw to come over into? Farrar should have been right on Cav's wheel. He wasn't cause he's too slow for Cav. He could still have won too because Cav went from so far out but, wah-wah, Renshaw blocked him. After every sprint stage in post race interviews someone says, "I could not do better because I got blocked." they usually say this in a totally flat voice devoid of emotion because it is so common and there's nothing to be done about it. Stop crying, be faster.
Renshaw was dumb, though. throwing his head around like that was like screaming, "Please penalize me!" Just push with your head man!
All you hysterical types who say, "Renshaw could really have hurt twenty guys." Some nut job even mentioned that someone could have been killed. Sure, they could... in every single sprint, especially in the tour because the stakes are so high, anything could happen. But I just watched five sprints on youtube from five different races and in every one people were swerving all over the place. In every one it was miracle no one was hurt. It's never gonna look, or be, safe.
Incidentally, the only person in the whole sequence who looks wobbly is farrar when he takes his hand off to touch Renshaw. Which is not allowed.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Punishment

Really for a guy like Renshaw who is a leadout man, what would relegating to the back of the field do to him as it does not matter where he finishes in the field after he has leadout Cavendish as that is his job. Money unless it is quite substantial would not do much
 
Oct 25, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
Really for a guy like Renshaw who is a leadout man, what would relegating to the back of the field do to him as it does not matter where he finishes in the field after he has leadout Cavendish as that is his job. Money unless it is quite substantial would not do much

What complete and utter nonsense - penalties fit the crime not the circumstances of the rider. There is no one penalty for lead out men and another for the rest. Do you seriously want me to advocate that a certain World champion should have been stripped of his stripes for scrapping in the Giro!
 
Mar 1, 2010
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Give me a break...it's really apparent that you have not reviewed and done research on the feedback from the cycling world that breath and live this sport. For just one instance...immediately after the finish Julian Dean was interviewed and he at that moment had no problem with Renshaw...it was "sprinting". It wasn't until after he got back to the team bus that he came out with a totally different story. Since then, the original interview is "missing". If what Renshaw did was so bad then, Robbie McEwen wouldn't be in this sport. It's friggin racing and if you're going to whine about not being treated with kid gloves then pick another sport. I really liked Tyler until this incident and hope that he figures it out the way George Hincapie did...working for an American team that works very hard at hurting another American team is not what this sport should be about.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Nearly said:
What complete and utter nonsense - penalties fit the crime not the circumstances of the rider. There is no one penalty for lead out men and another for the rest. Do you seriously want me to advocate that a certain World champion should have been stripped of his stripes for scrapping in the Giro!

Circumstances of the rider? The circumstance of the rider was the crime he committed. I was making the point that relegation does not punish Renshaw as his placing does not mean anything. Evans situation was far different.
 
Oct 25, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
Circumstances of the rider? The circumstance of the rider was the crime he committed. I was making the point that relegation does not punish Renshaw as his placing does not mean anything. Evans situation was far different.

Scenario:-
A. Relegation/fine/warning does not punish a previously unblemished lead out man but being removed as a lead out man for the rest of the race does.
B. A small fine does not punish a world champion but taking his stripes would.

.... and the difference is?
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Nearly said:
What complete and utter nonsense - penalties fit the crime not the circumstances of the rider. There is no one penalty for lead out men and another for the rest. Do you seriously want me to advocate that a certain World champion should have been stripped of his stripes for scrapping in the Giro!

You could try I guess, but it would be a pretty *** argument.
 
Oct 25, 2009
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M Sport said:
You could try I guess, but it would be a pretty *** argument.

Exactly - both the participants got the same fine for same crime. You don't then turn around and say well that fine is not going to hurt someone like a world champion so let's give him a heftier fine or, god forbid, take his stripes off him.

Yet that is what has happened to Renshaw - from slapfest to slapstick - its a joke and out of all proportion.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Nearly said:
Scenario:-
A. Relegation/fine/warning does not punish a previously unblemished lead out man but being removed as a lead out man for the rest of the race does.
B. A small fine does not punish a world champion but taking his stripes would.

.... and the difference is?

Taking his stripes would be completely stupid. He won them. way bigger difference. You may thing Renshaw is "unblemished" maybe you should watch one of the early stages of the tour where Renshaw and freire were headbutting.
 
Nearly said:
Exactly - both the participants got the same fine for same crime. You don't then turn around and say well that fine is not going to hurt someone like a world champion so let's give him a heftier fine or, god forbid, take his stripes off him.

Yet that is what has happened to Renshaw - from slapfest to slapstick - its a joke and out of all proportion.

??? Not quite the same events. The Giro was kinda funny ... I don't recall anyone shaking with fear after their little spat. Rennie is not a 'bad' person, but he pushed it over the line and now he is gone. If you are that charged about it, become an official :D

I think I am done with this thread now, as a lot of people seem to be sounding like 10 year olds having a temper tantrum :p
 
Jul 7, 2010
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auscyclefan94 said:
Taking his stripes would be completely stupid. He won them. way bigger difference. You may thing Renshaw is "unblemished" maybe you should watch one of the early stages of the tour where Renshaw and freire were headbutting.

Exactly, and nothing was done...to Friere or Renshaw. Why, because headbutting is the safest way to "fight for a place" in the peleton...So we go from nothing, to instantly kicked out. Why? Where is the consistency?

Renshaw is "unblemished" as far as his record goes. If someone goes to caught for speeding, they cann't use evidence against them of infringements they weren't fined/charged for...

By letting Renshaw and Friere (and Friere in the stage Renshaw was kicked out of too, with about 1km to go) fight for positon (as all good sprinters are taught to) previously, the officials set a clear precedent. Thans for pointing that precedent out.
 
Jul 7, 2010
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I think at the end of the day, whether you think Renshaw was bad, worse than Dean, better than Dean or anything else suggested in this thread. The punishment was way over the top, had no precedant and was inconsistent.

This is the major injustice from the whole thing...It's like someone going to gaol for speeding in a car (and only being fined for it once)...Speeding can cause accidents, can cause man slaughter etc etc. But the punishment wouldn't fit the crime