Renshaw out

[fatsprintking]

When have you EVER seen a headbutt lead to a crash on the road? Generally, if there is crashes, and headbutts, there was going to be crashes without the headbutts (and the headbutt was used to try and prevent it)...(read my above post about headbutting, I've said all of this)

No worries - just give me a list of the crashes you have seen from thrown bidons.

 

[Wolfpengap]

That is what I find amazing, surely the Barredo/Costa incident was worhty of expolsion if this was.

Barredo and Costa did not danger anyone but themselves! Their actions took place AFTER the stage and competition ended! They were fined for their behavior AFTER the stage. Renshaw endangered dozens of riders! Dean NEVER made contact with him. What was way worse was the forcing of riders into the fence. HTC rides dirty in the sprints, as if it is their given right to win the sprint at all costs because Cav is a little baby if he doesn't get delivered to the 200 M mark.

Anyone who compares this to the Barredo/Costa fight is way off!

 

[oncehadhair]

I must not watch a lot of cycling either as TRDean is 100% right.

Fair enough. Thanks for coming clean.
As long as you are 100% sure we can all be confident that we are correct.
Although if you'd said so at the start of the thread it could have saved a fair bit of angst in a few people.

 

[Hawkwood]

... HTC rides dirty in the sprints, as if it is their given right to win the sprint at all costs because Cav is a little baby if he doesn't get delivered to the 200 M mark.

But he won the sprint from 375m.

 

[abbaskip]

No worries - just give me a list of the crashes you have seen from thrown bidons.

I never implied that they cause accidents.You, however, implied that headbutting does.

As for throwing a bidon, it's extremely bad sportsman shift and in NO circumstances is part of racing. If you read my previous post, I've already explained the reasons for headbutting. It is the safest way to react to someone cutting you off, or invading your space, when they may not realise that they are (or are purposely trying to cut you off). Dean changed lines to run into Renshaw in the first place...this is also against the rules, and caused the headbutt (to put Dean back where he was, and move Renshaw back off the barrier).

 

[Anonymous]

Good Call!

Its good to see the officials taking their job seriously (finally). Seems like posters are divided into two camps, 1) too many crashes, too many injuries, too many contenders having to quit the tour and 2) let 'er rip at the finish line anything goes because "that's sprinting". Dean could have brought everyone down... Renshaw could have brought everyone down... Cav DID bring "everyone" down in Switzerland. Someone had to be made an example and HTC is the most blatant and visible offender.
Yer outa here!

 

[Mellow Velo]

Eurosport confirm the official jury press release as utter bollocks.
In interview, chief commie confirms that their decision was made:
"Within 5 minutes of the finish."

Dave Harmon just said he thinks the decision was an "utter disgrace".
Giving a very sensible reasoning.

For Tyler Farrar his opinion is different.

Sean Kelly agrees. "Dean had this barrier tactic in mind and leaned on Renshaw."

 

[sublimit]

The officials should of took more time over decision and not just throw him out in a knee jerk reaction like yesterday.

I think they at least could of studied the end properly and then make a decision and so i think it unfair what happened to Renshaw, from my point of view it wasn't a disqualification incident.

 

[Steel4Ever]

The officials should of took more time over decision and not just throw him out in a knee jerk reaction like yesterday.

I think they at least could of studied the end properly and then make a decision and so i think it unfair what happened to Renshaw, from my point of view it wasn't a disqualification incident.

Maybe the TdF needs to employ "Instant Reply" technology like they do in the World Cup. Oh...wait...

 

[auscyclefan94]

Well, it seems I now have to retract my comments, as Pescheux has adapted the jury's verdict to fit the facts:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/race-jury-and-aso-explain-renshaw-expulsion

Now, they say they viewed the incidents (plural) 3 or 4 times, not once, as was clear from yesterday.

The expulsion now seems more or less justified.
Although, this is clearly a case of the ASO producing a UCI-like contradiction of their rational, to include, retroactively, the Farrar incident in their adjudication process.

However, they still have managed to miss Dean's elbow involvement, which is a surprise, given such close scrutiny.

Look closely at the footage again and you will notice Dean put the elbow out at the same time Renshwa was putting the headbutt in. Renshaw 100% guilty! Nearly caused a bad accident for Farrar and he even looked at him and kept swerving. I have lost a tonne of respect for the guy.

 

[Steel4Ever]

Dean changed lines to run into Renshaw in the first place...this is also against the rules, and caused the headbutt (to put Dean back where he was, and move Renshaw back off the barrier).

Dean's line change was minimal -- maybe 4 inches into Renshaw's line.
Renshaw was no where near the barriers at that point. Watch the video.

Renshaw's line change to run into Farrar was massive, three meters(?).

And it was Renshaw who caused the headbutt, not Dean -- take responsibility for your own actions.

But whatever...what's done is done.

 

[Steel4Ever]

No worries - just give me a list of the crashes you have seen from thrown bidons.

I can't.
But it's probably a lot shorter than crashes caused by Cavendish.

 

[Ripper]

A good decision. Dean was not encroaching so much as attempting to pass ... headbutts don't tend to go over too well. An elbow can keep someone off your line, a headbutt like Renshaw's is too keep someone from passing. Renshaw then swung over big time, which was much worse. It was the combo that did him in. Relegating or a little fine would have done nothing, it's not like Renshaw's would really have given too much of care about that.

Someone had suggested Cav's win should be nulled, etc. I do not agree with this. He won and had nothing to do with the actual incident in question. As it stands, losing his chief leadout man hurts him.

Nice quote by Aldag - does not look bitter at all (karma big guy; Cav demonstrated more maturity with his answer to the journos).

 

[Willy_Voet]

from where I was I would say the hot one.

The forum judges need pictures or video replay to make a definitive decision on this.

 

[Steel4Ever]

Nice quote by Aldag - does not look bitter at all (karma big guy; Cav demonstrated more maturity with his answer to the journos).

I implore you, do NOT mention KARMA as causation of ANY ill outcome!
This thread will be shut down, locked up, and you will be issued a warning!

(I know first hand...)

 

[woodie]

The forum judges need pictures or video replay to make a definitive decision on this.

Talking about the guy and discussing what he (and others) did wrong is one thing but lets leave his sisters and family out of this. There is no need for it. I understand the initial intention of someone trying to demostrate that MR is a nice guy but lets leave it at that. No need to bring his family into it in any way shape or form.

 

[BikeCentric]

It's not as disgusting as the HATRED shown.Cav did nothing wrong in this sprint.
As for the other points
Dean does move over and puts his elbow into Renshaw(look at the barriers)
When Renshaw looks left does he see Farrar as I watched this over 100 times and seems he looks left when Farrar is directly behind him.On first viewing I thought that more serious than a few nudges with the head.Kelly and Vanderaerden style.


Question for the people who think Dean is squeaky clean.
Did Cav move on Hushovd last year and squeeze him into the barriers.
Before you answer please make sure your wearing the same glasses as you did then.
It is very obvious the Cav haters will say anything to see him taken down a peg.Especially here as he did nothing wrong in that gallop except WIN AGAIN
GO CAV GO
OOO can you feel the man love pmsl

This isn't about Cav. Cav obviously did nothing wrong in this sprint and had a good win. However, it is about Cav fanboys on here thinking Cav and his lead-out train can do no wrong. Renshaw went over the line in trying to be an aggressive lead-out man and he got popped for it. It happens. I don't think the head-butting was all that bad but really he only has to do it once as Dean stopped moving over on him as soon as he got butted once; and it didn't look to me like Dean was trying to pinch him into the barriers. However, Renshaw then went out of his way to pinch Farrar into the barriers. Unacceptable alone, and worse after his head-butting. It's simply not okay, and this is why he got DQ'ed. There is really no point in crying about it because it's over and done and a river of fanboy tears will not bring Renshaw back into the race to help out Cav.

 

[BikeCentric]

I dont know guys, it just seems like some of you are missing the point a bit.

Julian Dean is paid to lead out as is Mark Renshaw. They have raced together at CA and no doubt been in a similar situation to today many times. They both know the drill and what you can and cant do. Of course Dean is going to crowd Renshaw as he comes up to him. They are not sprinting, they are leading out. Dean's job is to get his man to the right spot as well as to legally impede his opposition from getting a clear run. He didnt hook Renshaw, but he was certainly crowding him and certainly making sure that Cavandish does not have a chance to come up the right hand side, he is also trying to move Renshaw to the left, not to put him into the barriers but to close down Cavandish options to go left. It was actually really good riding and outside of anything else forces Cav to go early - a task that he is up to, but generally it would have been too early. Generally your rule of thumb is to go as late as you can but before everyone else (appologies to Tim Krabbe - The Rider)

If you look at Friere with 1k to go you will see a perfect example of what a class rider does when someone tries to crowd him. He uses his head and shoulder but it is firm rather than aggressive.

As for Tyler getting impeded, I have stated previously that the issue with Renshaws actions is that he changes his mind. He starts to sit up and then sees that noone has Cavs wheel and so goes for it. He was never going to put Tyler into the barriers, but these type of mind changes are very very dangerous. You are either sprinting or you are sitting up, not starting to sit up then changing your mind.

If you look closely at the sprint you will see that the guy who moves off his line the most is Petacchi, who goes from one side of the road to the other. In the process he clearly impedes Rojas, who actually does a fantastic sprint through the traffic. Petacchi's lead out Hondo sits up and gets into Hushovlds way, while McEwen makes a good late run to the right and actually looks pretty good for possible win on the last stage.

I think that you have to try and look past your personal loyalties and actually see what is happening in the bigger scheme of things. Which ever way you cut it Renshaw was over the top with his head throwing antics and it is a really bad look. For the record I love the guy, but he was way over the top with what he did and this needs to be acted on.

^
This

And for the record I do consider Renshaw the best lead-out man in pro cycling despite the fact that he lost his head the other day.

 

[Anonymous]

My conspiracy theory is that the first actions of Renshaw weren't that bad. The first two headbutts didn't seem too bad. It was the last one that really had some punch to it. But still not that big of a deal. However, when he pinched Farrar by the barriers, that was the main infraction.

Although, I think he thought it was Dean and tried to purposely pinch Dean, not Farrar. All he saw was the Garmin jersey coming up out of the corner of his eye and thought, heck no am I gonna let you get past!

Should he have been thrown out? Maybe not. But the Tour folks needed to squash that type of stuff fast so as to keep this stuff from happening again. So they made an example of Renshaw and booted him. Sucks for Cav though going forth.

 

[Four Winds]

Its good to see the officials taking their job seriously (finally). Seems like posters are divided into two camps, 1) too many crashes, too many injuries, too many contenders having to quit the tour and 2) let 'er rip at the finish line anything goes because "that's sprinting". Dean could have brought everyone down... Renshaw could have brought everyone down... Cav DID bring "everyone" down in Switzerland. Someone had to be made an example and HTC is the most blatant and visible offender.
Yer outa here!

So should we go back to stage one and sort out who caused the mass pile up right across the road and ban them? Or when you look at the tape will it look like a case of "six of one, half a dozen of the other" as it often does in a sprint.

And I really can't believe how much of a slagging Cavendish is getting in this thread from some. I accept he isn't everyone's fave and everyone is entitled to an opinion but his behaviour has been beyond reproach over the last 24hrs. Much more restrained than after the incident last year. Perhaps he is learning some lessons, but I'm sure it won't change a load of people with blinkered opinions.

He may not win green this year but he's still the best sprinter in the tour...AGAIN!

 

[battaglin]

@four winds
totally agree with you,the Cav haters blame him for every incident in cycling.

@bikecentric
what Cav fanboys all I see on here is HATRED towards a guy none of you know.He gets the blame just for being the best sprinter in the peloton at the moment.
He did nothing wrong in this gallop.
blimey Kelly and Vanderaerden would have been given life time bans if they had raced now.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Whatever.
We now have the odd situation of Cav without a lead out man and Dean without his sprinter.

I'll bet Ale Jet is having trouble wiping the huge grin off his face.

 

[BikeCentric]

@four winds
totally agree with you,the Cav haters blame him for every incident in cycling.

@bikecentric
what Cav fanboys all I see on here is HATRED towards a guy none of you know.He gets the blame just for being the best sprinter in the peloton at the moment.
He did nothing wrong in this gallop.
blimey Kelly and Vanderaerden would have been given life time bans if they had raced now.

Look, I'll appologize for baiting the Cav fans in my other post - that was pretty rude I'll admit.

Yes I dislike Cav immensely but I'm honest enough to acknowledge that he is the best pure sprinter in the World still, and he's come back to show that again from poor early season form so good for him. The reason I dislike him is simply due to personality issues.

 

[Dewulf]

Are we saying that once the lead-out man has sat up he should continue in a straight line and not deviate? ...

umm, yeah, would that be so difficult? face it, MR knows Cav is on his wheel, and that likely one of the other sprinters is on Cav's. Cav goes, and until MR sees the other main sprinters pass himself, he has to assume they are about to come through. Hence he shouldn't have changed line.

This is a bit different from the usual sprint where the leadout man will peel off to one side, since the Farrar/Dean fracas prevented that. Still, my first paragraph applies, and though i feel a bit sorry for Mark, he acted poorly in the heat of the moment.

 

[njtruscott]

I'm glad that little idiot Renshaw is out. They should also disqualify Cav's victory and penalize the team.

Get off HTC'S back you stupid chump! if you watch the replays, it clearly shows tyler farrar take his hands from is bike, and as far as i'm aware thats not permited!
HTC always get penalised for winning, but then anything to help Thor win another green jersey-boring in my book!
As Renshaw said what he did is in no way worse then waht happens in any sprint.