Renshaw out

[blaxland]

All this Passion from the riders trying to win a stage.Lets just move on... Renshaw out and Tyler Farrar still wont win a stage this tour....Not while Ale jet is still racing..

 

[Captain Serious]

Excuse my ignorance, but is there any avenue for appeal, and, therefore, any chance that the decision will be reversed?

 

[Night Rider]

Excuse my ignorance, but is there any avenue for appeal, and, therefore, any chance that the decision will be reviersed?

I can't supply a link but I'm sure I read on Cycling News or Cycling Weekly that there was no avenue of appeal.

 

[Captain Serious]

....Thanks

 

[BikeCentric]

You Cav slurpers need new glasses. Officials had it right.

1. HTC train deviated right (stage left). Check the paint on the ground and distance from the barriers.
2. The "elbow" Dean gave was nothing. He didn't lean (I'm not even sure the elbow made contact.)
3. Renshaw headbutts 3 times, then deviates further right.
4. Renshaw looks back, sees Farrar coming then deviates left.

This is exactly what happenned. Clearly the chamois sniffers have jumped off the Pharmstrong bandwagon and hitched their trailers to Cavs mandibles. The man-love for Cav is just disgusting.

 

[oncehadhair]

I'm glad that little idiot Renshaw is out. They should also disqualify Cav's victory and penalize the team.

I'm not sure how you can call him an idiot over one incident.
Its the first time that i can remember that he has acted like that and I'm not condoning it at all and as an Australian i'm embarrassed.
Bu his history as a sprinter is pretty clean (considering the jostling that goes on in the sprint) so its not like he does it all the time.
Cavendish did nothing wrong (this time) so doesn't deserve any penalty.
If they are going on precedents Renshaw should have been relegated.
Putting him out of the race is an overreaction.
They made their decision too hastily - usually there is a chance for the riders involved to put their case.

 

[BikeCentric]

Bike x-Rays and now the tour organizers are playing Morality Police. Great

Maybe they will go Fashion Police on us and Throw out Vaugters Himself for the Turtleneck/Sport Coat combos in July. Talk about malicious intent.

It has nothing to do with morality, it has to do with incentivizing racers not to make stupid moves that cause crashes in finishing sprints. I like to watch a good sprint not a pile-up.

 

[oncehadhair]

Overall terrible riding by Renshaw!! Dangerous...and pointless. All this Dean blame is rediculous. Couple the head butting with the erradic riding in the final and there you have it...moron! Sprints have been getting a little crazy lately...now there is a firm line drawn.

Noone is blaming Dean. And I'm not saying that what Renshaw did was ok but your response shows you have not watched a lot of racing. I've seen worse sprints where noone was penalised.

Sprints by their nature are crazy.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Got what he deserved!

For the umpteenth time: Barredo and Costa fought after the stage was already over. Apparently it's not the same situation according to the rules.

Also, the results of 1 or 2 fists being thrown is going to result in much less servere injuries than causing a mass pile up in the peleton going at 70km/hr as road rash and many broken bones from tens of riders could result from that. I like Mark (Renshaw not Cav!) but he was way out of line today.

Will Cav do a salute like in Romandie when he wins a stage?

 

[Rominger]

Dean clearly tried to lean on Renshaw (the white line on the road on the overhead shot shows this clearly) who retaliated ith a nudge with his head (a nudge), the third time was a headbutt and not necessary and closing the door on Farrar was wrong but I am not coninced it is a kicking out of the tour offence, the last time they did it was when Steels threw his bottle in 97 which was an obvious aggression and not the same as Renshaw yesterday. And no before people start, I am not a fan of Cav I just think the DQ is unfair.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Noone is blaming Dean. And I'm not saying that what Renshaw did was ok but your response shows you have not watched a lot of racing. I've seen worse sprints where noone was penalised.

Sprints by their nature are crazy.

I must not watch a lot of cycling either as TRDean is 100% right.

 

[Benotti69]

none on here *****ing about how a Lampre came across Hushvod and blocking his sprint..... hushvod aint crying about it either.....that's sprinting.
Been plenty worse happen in the tour and no one been sent home.

 

[auscyclefan94]

All this Passion from the riders trying to win a stage.Lets just move on... Renshaw out and Tyler Farrar still wont win a stage this tour....Not while Ale jet is still racing..

Too right blaxland! Ale Jet is going to woop some *** in Paris. If Ale Jet had a better lead out he would be owning Cav's pasty ***!

 

[hungry-ford]

Closing-out Tyler is popular

Stage 11 -Sprint-Renshaw DQ'ed
Studied online frontal and overhead sprint videos, slo-mo. Overhead video starts a little late and does not show Dean moving up from behind, establishing a newer lead-out line than Columbia/HTC.
1] Straight line C/HTC train-Eisel/Renshaw/Cav-leading, not deviating
2] Julian Dean is all that Tyler has in last 600m, Hunter just abandoning after stage 10 with a fracture. Dean is gassing out. He starts his sprint sooner, in order to come up from behind, establishing his newer line and position behind and to the right of Eisel, roughly even with Renshaw who is still second behind leader, Eisel.
3] Bernhard Eisel pulls off left toward barriers, somewhat awkwardly, leaving the lead to Dean and Renshaw.
4] Julian Dean, with his last gasps and just as Renshaw is shifting to max sprint, hooks his left elbow in front of Renshaw's right elbow while Dean leans his bike left toward Renshaw. Proof of "Dean Lean" is that immediately after first butting, the line of both riders moves left toward Renshaw against the barriers. At this point Cav is boxed in. Meanwhile Lampre's Hondo and Petacchi are gaining momentum to the right of Dean and Renshaw.
5] Additional Renshaw head **** moves his line back to right, far enough to free Cav for pass on his left along barriers.
6] Initially Tyler Farrar abandons he slipstream of a failing Dean. Cutting to right, he tries to follow Cav to the front between Renshaw and the barriers, but loses Cav's slipstream. Farrar shifts slightly back to the right to pick up draft on Renshaw.
7] Renshaw feels Farrar to the left of his rear wheel and moves left to close-out Tyler, although he sees the left barrier and releases right fairly quickly, so Tyler can continue his line along the left barrier with no definite visible loss of speed.
8] Petacchi comes all the way from mid-street to the left barrier, passing in front of a failing Renshaw, to completely close out Farrar along the left barrier. Farrar visibly holds up and re-routes around Petacchi's rear wheel, moving to the right of Petacchi where he manages to gain a half bike before finishing third behind Cav and Petacchi.

A. Renshaw was right to head-**** in self-defense to protect his line and his sprinter from Dean's initiating leftward barge/elbow hook.
B. Renshaw was not so pure a little further down the street as he closed-out Farrar along the left barrier. Renshaw's close-out on Tyler's sprint appeared to have much less effect than Petacchi's more dramatic line-change-to-the-left-barrier that closed-out Farrar. Both Petacci and Renshaw were just sprinting. No foul.
C. Throughout 2010 TdF, in the final 5 km of sprint stages, we have been watching other teams, esp Garmin and Lampre, deliberately barging free-way lane changes into Columbia/HTC's train to break it up. This strategy worked the first couple of sprints. Now the race officials have done what the other teams couldn't by disqualifying Renshaw.
D. The loss of Hunter is less than the loss of Renshaw, but the winner is Lampre and Petacchi. Good. Petacchi doesn't cry as much as Tyler, Cav and Robbie.
E. The race officials needed to look at the TV pictures more carefully.
"Top race official Jean-Francois Pescheux said they only needed to look at the television pictures once to make their decision."Renshaw was declassified immediately but we have decided to also throw him off the race," said Pescheux.
"We've only seen the pictures once, but his actions are plain for all to see. They were blatant. This is a bike race, not a gladiator's arena." As is so common in sports, it is the person retaliating that gets in trouble.

Each finishing sprint, Julian Dean keeps trying and failing to match speed with C/HTC train and Renshaw, as he did again on Stage 11. Tyler keeps "not following" Dean, instead looks for Cav's rear wheel to follow (but lose). I guess this is Tyler's own strategy or else he doesn't believe Dean/Hunter have enough stuff to get him in position for a win. I think Tyler was wrong and, like Petacchi, he should have sprinted with his own team. With Hunter out, he is probably right. Tyler is frustrated and sounds like a cry-baby. Just sprint faster and wiser, Tyler!!

I think Lance or George should cross over team loyalties and replace Renshaw, helping out Tony and Bernhard in the C/HTC lead-out train.

News-Interview lying:
Television pictures show Dean getting very close to Renshaw as he tried to bring Farrar into position, although elbows and shoulders are certainly not unknown to clash in the hotly-contested bunch sprints.
For Dean, a former teammate of Renshaw's at Credit Agricole, Renshaw's actions were simply uncalled for. (...Comment: In an earlier immediate post-race interview by Versus, Dean gives an entirely different viewpoint...)
However, the Kiwi suggested it was Renshaw's second error, closing the door on Farrar, that was most dangerous.
"All the other (HTC-Columbia) guys were fine, it was just Renshaw's behaviour that was inappropriate," said Dean.
"I jumped my front wheel in Cav's wheel. I went past Renshaw and tried to keep the speed high and while I was coming out of Renshaw (...by 20cm...), he didn't seem to like it too much (..that I leaned into him to box out Cav while I still had a little energy left and hooked his elbow with mine...).
"I didn't make any movement at all. Next thing I felt like he was leaning on me and hitting me with his head (...after I first leaned on him...)."
He added: "And then he carried on afterwards and came across on Tyler's line and stopped Tyler from possibly winning the stage(...although not nearly as much as Petacchi did...). He shouldn't have done that. It's not appropriate.
"It's dangerous behaviour and if there had been a crash there it would have caused some guys some serious damage ...as is true for every sprint finish in the TdF...).
"What we do is very dangerous and we don't need behaviour like that to make it even more dangerous."
Speaking before being informed of the decision, Renshaw claimed he had been in danger of being put into the barriers by Dean; a claim that television pictures did not appear to corroborate (...ah, but TV pictures do corroborate. Maybe not into the barriers, but definitely an initiating barge by Dean, closing-out Renshaw and boxing Cav...).
"The guy (Dean) came across from me. Either he keeps turning left, puts me in the barrier and I crash, or I try to lean against him," he said.
"I didn't have another option. It's all about sprinting straight."
Although saddened by the decision, Cavendish laid some of the blame on Dean, claiming the Kiwi "hooked his elbow over Mark's right elbow".
"Mark used his head to try and get away. There's a risk when the elbows are that close (that) the handlebars are going to tangle," said Cavendish.
"That puts everyone behind in danger. Mark (Renshaw) gave us a bit of space that kept us upright."
He added: "I'm very happy to win. The team did a great job."

 

[auscyclefan94]

Looking at the vision, the elbow and the first headbutt by Mark and Dean caem out at the same time so Mark can't use the excuse of retaliating.

 

[dsut4392]

the "close the door" move was way more scandalous than what you usually see when someone tries to cut the other sprinters off that are trying to come around them.

Funny, because when I watch that video I see Renshaw looking across and seeing a big fat gap of well over a bike length on Cav's wheel which he tries to swing into. At the time he throws his glance, there was nobody to his left, Farrar was well behind. I also see Farrar has the same idea at the same time, but is carrying more speed (as Renshaw had slowed down after the shenaningans with Dean), hence gets blocked and forced further left towards the barriers. Farrar was already making virtually the same swerve regardless of anything Renshaw did, because that was where he had to be to get on Cav's wheel. Anyone saying Renshaw should be DQ'd or thrown off the tour for this move should say exactly the same about Farrar. Seems at least in this respect the commissaires are right, because it isn't what he was sent home for.

WRT sending him home for the petty wussy headbutting, I think it's a mistake, particularly in the context of Dean hooking him with the elbow and drifting him across the road, boxing in his sprint. There are plenty of worse examples of mid-race argy bargy which have attracted either nil or much lower penalty. As far as it being "a message that needs to be sent to keep sprinting clean", ASO really ought to try sending a letter first, e.g. "sprint clean or you could get sent home, we won't put up with all the crap anymore. You have been warned". To DQ the lead out man of the fastest sprinter of the race, just when it looks like he may have a chance in the points competition after he was being discounted, is way too harsh. To do this to the same team whose green jersey competition was derailed by a similarly questionable decision the previous year beggars belief.

And I don't even like Cav.

 

[mickkk]

Its a typical le Tour decision. All passion and no substance. We used to get these decisions all the time.

I dont see how you can get fined 400 euros for having at least three swings at another riders head with a front wheel but a headbutt gets DSQ.

Anyways, its good news for McEwan.

 

[Mellow Velo]

This is exactly what happenned. Clearly the chamois sniffers have jumped off the Pharmstrong bandwagon and hitched their trailers to Cavs mandibles. The man-love for Cav is just disgusting.

See, rubbish like this why I'm starting to get annoyed.
I like Farrar, but I don't like Cav.
The whole DQ issue has nothing to do with Renshaw cutting up Farrar and even less to do with Cav.

The DQ debate is between Dean and Renshaw. Lose track of that and objectivity goes out of the window.

hungry-ford's post above, is the most clinical, comprehensive and accurate post on the subject.

 

[abbaskip]

Stage 11 -Sprint-Renshaw DQ'ed
Studied online frontal and overhead sprint videos, slo-mo. Overhead video starts a little late and does not show Dean moving up from behind, establishing a newer lead-out line than Columbia/HTC.
1] Straight line C/HTC train-Eisel/Renshaw/Cav-leading, not deviating
2] Julian Dean is all that Tyler has in last 600m, Hunter just abandoning after stage 10 with a fracture. Dean is gassing out. He starts his sprint sooner, in order to come up from behind, establishing his newer line and position behind and to the right of Eisel, roughly even with Renshaw who is still second behind leader, Eisel.
3] Bernhard Eisel pulls off left toward barriers, somewhat awkwardly, leaving the lead to Dean and Renshaw.
4] Julian Dean, with his last gasps and just as Renshaw is shifting to max sprint, hooks his left elbow in front of Renshaw's right elbow while Dean leans his bike left toward Renshaw. Proof of "Dean Lean" is that immediately after first butting, the line of both riders moves left toward Renshaw against the barriers. At this point Cav is boxed in. Meanwhile Lampre's Hondo and Petacchi are gaining momentum to the right of Dean and Renshaw.
5] Additional Renshaw head **** moves his line back to right, far enough to free Cav for pass on his left along barriers.
6] Initially Tyler Farrar abandons he slipstream of a failing Dean. Cutting to right, he tries to follow Cav to the front between Renshaw and the barriers, but loses Cav's slipstream. Farrar shifts slightly back to the right to pick up draft on Renshaw.
7] Renshaw feels Farrar to the left of his rear wheel and moves left to close-out Tyler, although he sees the left barrier and releases right fairly quickly, so Tyler can continue his line along the left barrier with no definite visible loss of speed.
8] Petacchi comes all the way from mid-street to the left barrier, passing in front of a failing Renshaw, to completely close out Farrar along the left barrier. Farrar visibly holds up and re-routes around Petacchi's rear wheel, moving to the right of Petacchi where he manages to gain a half bike before finishing third behind Cav and Petacchi.

A. Renshaw was right to head-**** in self-defense to protect his line and his sprinter from Dean's initiating leftward barge/elbow hook.
B. Renshaw was not so pure a little further down the street as he closed-out Farrar along the left barrier. Renshaw's close-out on Tyler's sprint appeared to have much less effect than Petacchi's more dramatic line-change-to-the-left-barrier that closed-out Farrar. Both Petacci and Renshaw were just sprinting. No foul.
C. Throughout 2010 TdF, in the final 5 km of sprint stages, we have been watching other teams, esp Garmin and Lampre, deliberately barging free-way lane changes into Columbia/HTC's train to break it up. This strategy worked the first couple of sprints. Now the race officials have done what the other teams couldn't by disqualifying Renshaw.
D. The loss of Hunter is less than the loss of Renshaw, but the winner is Lampre and Petacchi. Good. Petacchi doesn't cry as much as Tyler, Cav and Robbie.
E. The race officials needed to look at the TV pictures more carefully.
"Top race official Jean-Francois Pescheux said they only needed to look at the television pictures once to make their decision."Renshaw was declassified immediately but we have decided to also throw him off the race," said Pescheux.
"We've only seen the pictures once, but his actions are plain for all to see. They were blatant. This is a bike race, not a gladiator's arena." As is so common in sports, it is the person retaliating that gets in trouble.

Each finishing sprint, Julian Dean keeps trying and failing to match speed with C/HTC train and Renshaw, as he did again on Stage 11. Tyler keeps "not following" Dean, instead looks for Cav's rear wheel to follow (but lose). I guess this is Tyler's own strategy or else he doesn't believe Dean/Hunter have enough stuff to get him in position for a win. I think Tyler was wrong and, like Petacchi, he should have sprinted with his own team. With Hunter out, he is probably right. Tyler is frustrated and sounds like a cry-baby. Just sprint faster and wiser, Tyler!!

I think Lance or George should cross over team loyalties and replace Renshaw, helping out Tony and Bernhard in the C/HTC lead-out train.

News-Interview lying:
Television pictures show Dean getting very close to Renshaw as he tried to bring Farrar into position, although elbows and shoulders are certainly not unknown to clash in the hotly-contested bunch sprints.
For Dean, a former teammate of Renshaw's at Credit Agricole, Renshaw's actions were simply uncalled for. (...Comment: In an earlier immediate post-race interview by Versus, Dean gives an entirely different viewpoint...)
However, the Kiwi suggested it was Renshaw's second error, closing the door on Farrar, that was most dangerous.
"All the other (HTC-Columbia) guys were fine, it was just Renshaw's behaviour that was inappropriate," said Dean.
"I jumped my front wheel in Cav's wheel. I went past Renshaw and tried to keep the speed high and while I was coming out of Renshaw (...by 20cm...), he didn't seem to like it too much (..that I leaned into him to box out Cav while I still had a little energy left and hooked his elbow with mine...).
"I didn't make any movement at all. Next thing I felt like he was leaning on me and hitting me with his head (...after I first leaned on him...)."
He added: "And then he carried on afterwards and came across on Tyler's line and stopped Tyler from possibly winning the stage(...although not nearly as much as Petacchi did...). He shouldn't have done that. It's not appropriate.
"It's dangerous behaviour and if there had been a crash there it would have caused some guys some serious damage ...as is true for every sprint finish in the TdF...).
"What we do is very dangerous and we don't need behaviour like that to make it even more dangerous."
Speaking before being informed of the decision, Renshaw claimed he had been in danger of being put into the barriers by Dean; a claim that television pictures did not appear to corroborate (...ah, but TV pictures do corroborate. Maybe not into the barriers, but definitely an initiating barge by Dean, closing-out Renshaw and boxing Cav...).
"The guy (Dean) came across from me. Either he keeps turning left, puts me in the barrier and I crash, or I try to lean against him," he said.
"I didn't have another option. It's all about sprinting straight."
Although saddened by the decision, Cavendish laid some of the blame on Dean, claiming the Kiwi "hooked his elbow over Mark's right elbow".
"Mark used his head to try and get away. There's a risk when the elbows are that close (that) the handlebars are going to tangle," said Cavendish.
"That puts everyone behind in danger. Mark (Renshaw) gave us a bit of space that kept us upright."
He added: "I'm very happy to win. The team did a great job."

Well said..

 

[boianchimoon]

See, rubbish like this why I'm starting to get annoyed.
I like Farrar, but I don't like Cav.
The whole DQ issue has nothing to do with Renshaw cutting up Farrar and even less to do with Cav.

The DQ debate is between Dean and Renshaw. Lose track of that and objectivity goes out of the window.

hungry-ford's post above, is the most clinical, comprehensive and accurate post on the subject.

reason and rational from mellow velo/hungry-ford, i totally agree there's so much hatred for petty/un-informed reasons that certain people lose sight of what actually went on

 

[Mellow Velo]

Well, it seems I now have to retract my comments, as Pescheux has adapted the jury's verdict to fit the facts:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/race-jury-and-aso-explain-renshaw-expulsion

Now, they say they viewed the incidents (plural) 3 or 4 times, not once, as was clear from yesterday.

The expulsion now seems more or less justified.
Although, this is clearly a case of the ASO producing a UCI-like contradiction of their rational, to include, retroactively, the Farrar incident in their adjudication process.

However, they still have managed to miss Dean's elbow involvement, which is a surprise, given such close scrutiny.

 

[djkmordi]

Yes Dean did move across, normal behaviour, head butting is out of order, period and then to carry on an nearly wipeout Farrar well that is down right cheating, fair penalty I reckon.
Actually fed up totally with these boring lead out trains, in my humble opinion they should be restricted to your lead out man and yourself. Its like the chariot scene from BenHur.At present heaps of riders with no intention to win are clogging up the road and blocking riders who are!!!!

I actually switch over the television and watch something else during these flat stages.

 

[abbaskip]

Haha Pescheux obviously had a really good look:
"After setting up Cavendish he's forcing the riders who finished second and third to the barriers"

Petacchi, who finished second, came from the other side of Renshaw, and actually slowed down Farrar himself, even more...

 

[abbaskip]

Yes Dean did move across, normal behaviour, head butting is out of order, period and then to carry on an nearly wipeout Farrar well that is down right cheating, fair penalty I reckon.
Actually fed up totally with these boring lead out trains, in my humble opinion they should be restricted to your lead out man and yourself. Its like the chariot scene from BenHur.At present heaps of riders with no intention to win are clogging up the road and blocking riders who are!!!!

I actually switch over the television and watch something else during these flat stages.

How do you suppose these are restricted?? It's impossible to make rules that restrict lead out trains, because it's just riders, riding fast, and following team mates.

I actually like it, when different teams are jostling for position at the front in the last 5-10km, and fighting for position etc. It's exciting.

 

[Four Winds]

Are we saying that once the lead-out man has sat up he should continue in a straight line and not deviate? Or could he then be penalised for slowing too quickly as that would be dangerous too? Where does it all end. Generally, most lead-outs try to get well over to one side to get out of the way surely.

In fact as long ago as stage 10, only 1 day before, the last Lampre guy (Hondo?) leading out Petacchi pulls way over to one side, ironically right across the front of Cavendish.

I know it's only for the minor placings but are the rules about protecting riders or are they there for the coms to make arbitrary decisions to generate controversy and spice things up a bit.

I think most people are prepared to accept MR was in the wrong, what is annoying is that decisions are inconsistent and that one minute they say that the sport is for men (cobbles and Spa stages) then then change their tune to back up another decision when it suits them.