So, be a good person, ask for salvation, and find nirvana in heaven.Jspear said:I'm not attempting to write "unfeeling drivel." I'm sorry you feel that way and I'm sorry that I scare you. I'm a human, I know what it is like to lose people I love...I've felt the "evils" of this world. I don't right as some emotionless human that is living the high life with no issues.
If there is no God, does that help with all the tragedies in this world? Does that make them go away? It doesn't...all it does is make things even more hopeless. I said a two year old is born a sinner, but isn't as responsible because they don't understand yet. I believe that 2 year old will go to heaven because they weren't old enough to make a decision on their own to believe in God...that should give a parent WAY more hope then just, "oh yes they suffered in this life and now they are nothing." How about this..."yes, it was a tragedy what happened to that child - but now he/she is in heaven where everything is perfect, no more pain no more sorrow. Oh and you can be there to...it's a choice you make."
That is real hope.
Humans can't reject God and then go on to blame, ridicule, and mock him for all the evil in the world. It's a sad mindset to have. I look at all the evil in the world and I know that saying or wishing that there is no God won't make the pain go away....all your ranting won't change anything. You could decide to believe in God...it would make a lot more sense out of this world than not believing in him. Christianity gives hope...there is an afterlife free of pain, sorrow, and sin.
So I'm not going to burn in hell for eternity with the rapists and murderers because I was born in the wrong family?Jspear said:You're accusations as to what I said are simply wrong. Sorry you feel that way.
Yeah right ....and when you could not respond in a civil manner to my responses because you arguments where weak and you really could not find an educated response because your posts/ beliefs are contradictoryEchoes said:"To be involved in this (Iraq War), frankly, just makes me happy."
Do you, folks, even beware of whom you are quoting? It's appalling.
Apparently you haven't really even comprehended anything I've said. I could give you a real answer - I'm not bucking the question, but I have a feeling you'll twist what I say no matter what. You're phrasing what I said completely inaccurately...The Hitch said:So I'm not going to burn in hell for eternity with the rapists and murderers because I was born in the wrong family?
Interesting. What is the far right US fundamentalist nutjob position on the afterlife for non Christians then?
1+ My friend, you hit the nail.Christian said:Did you guys hear about this? Selena Gomez showed some ankle in a mosque in Dubai and has thereby outraged many of her followers on instagram who also follow Mohammed.
Apparently Rihanna had been kicked out of the same mosque for wearing red lipstick and nail polish.
I could care less about these celebrities (though I do find Selena Gomez cute), but it shows to me the double standard in our society when it comes to religion.
In the US, one of the worst things you can say is that a rape victim "had it coming" for "dressing like a sl*t". This spawned the so-called "sl*t walks", where lightly clothed women marched through cities proudly claiming their right to dress whichever way they want.
But even the most "liberal" (in the US sense) people will say, oh well Rihanna she shouldn't have worn that lipstick, she should have been more sensitive - i.e. she had it coming. What the eff?
Can we finally acknowledge the horrible disdain that religion has for women? Can we finally do away with it?
Foxxy, I have to say I disagree with many things you say - I don't think followers of Mohammed are dumb, killers or rapists. I tried to criticize a specific aspect of all religions - disdain for women - and in no way meant to judge every follower of islam.FoxxyBrown1111 said:1+ My friend, you hit the nail.
Those political correct brainwashed folks took us hostage for their experiments of multi-kulti, gendermainstreaming, winner-takes-all society.
Your post just shows the absurdity of their behaving.
Why are they doing that?
1.) Above all is the most dangerous religion of all: The money god. Their upper priests would sell their grandmas for it. So they have no problems to sell western countries to the 2nd most dangerous religion...
2.) ... The islam. A book written by a gangster whose dumb followers kill in his name and rape women for the sake of it.
But there is hope. From Sweden to Spain, brave men and women stand up slowly. They have enough of the islamic intruders that spoil our societies, sold to them by our corrupt leaders (politicans and big business work/ed hand-in-hand) for the money-god.
The 3rd worst religion? Certainly the christs. Cowards trou-and-trou who didn´t stand up against Hitler, not when their churches are burned down in Syria or Kosovo, not when our countries are over-taken by the moslems.
So far so "good", but then...Christian said:Foxxy, I have to say I disagree with many things you say - I don't think followers of Mohammed are dumb, killers or rapists.
... it´s not only the disdain for women, but also the disdain for us disbelievers (basically all people that are not islam faithed), climaxing in the holy war against us. It´s not about thinking, but about facts. Don´t go cherry-picking of what you don´t like about islam (in your case the "women stuff"). The whole book is full of hate. Read the following of the quran:Christian said:I tried to criticize a specific aspect of all religions - disdain for women - and in no way meant to judge every follower of islam.
You will know differently after reading the suras I just posted...Christian said:I also don't think that Western countries are being sold to islam. I do not consider moslems as intruders in my country, and I do not feel that they spoil our society. I do not feel that moslems are taking over Western countries.
I fundamentally agree with Pegida. In 20 years (when it´s too late), most european softies who are against them now will have followed. Guaranteed!Christian said:I fundamentally disagree with the Pegida movement.
I also support Die Linke in some of their views, but that doesn´t leave me brainwashed to take things they are deadly wrong about. IOW: I am a socialist (as most know from the WP thread), but not a dumb follower... (That doesn´t mean you are one. Just wanted to make my point fully clear)Christian said:I welcome immigration and cultural diversity. I support the party Die Linke and its related movements throughout Europe.
Here I agree fully. But again: It´s not only against women, it´s against all of us.Christian said:I only tried to illustrate what I perceive to be a double-standard: when it comes to religion (all religions), practices that would be considered ridiculous, harmful or barbaric in any other social setting are considered perfectly fine. This is one of the central arguments of Hitchens. Like in this case expelling women from places for dressing "too provocatively". Women have fought for a long time against such stigmas, but when it comes to religion it is considered "tradition", and where tradition starts the thinking stops.
I admit that I have not read the Quran, and only parts of the Bible. But doesn't the Bible also contain many of these very same subjects? Granted, since it came before the Quran, it cannot refer to Mohammed. But once Islam became a thread to Christianity, theologists and church authorities made the same claims and organized holy wars.FoxxyBrown1111 said:The book is all about raping their women, killing us disbelievers, the holy war against us, the aim of overtaking the world, that only Allah is to be believed and taken as friend, that christs and other religions are evil, and about women being slaves only.
I am not sure what you mean by "let them in". Europe is commonly refered to as a "fortress", and judging by the risk that people take to make it to the continent, I'd say the EU is doing its best not to let people in. This is also the purpose of the mercenary force Frontex, which is paid for by EU funds.You will know differently after reading the suras I just posted...
Yes western politicans sell our freedom and democracies for the sake of money. Why else should they let those hateful people in? They know they are dangerous (see ISIS, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, etc.)...
They let them in, to play the card (cheap) foreigners vs (high paid) origin european union workers. The collateral damage (spoiled/un-free societies; attacks)? They don´t care. They are (extremly high paid) puppets of big business. Big busniess would sell their own grandmas for more profits. As I said before: The most dangerous religion of them all...
My country, Luxembourg, would never have achieved the wealth it has today if it hadn't been for immigrant workers. Italians and Portuguese helped build the country we could never have built by ourselves. Still today our economy could not survive without immigrants.What did immigration good for you? Honestly: Please tell me. I wanna know why people welcome their own slow "death"...
For me immgration only got bad results: X times beaten by moslems, censored MSM, awful long check-ins at airports (as if we would sucide attack our flights ), my girls being afraid to dress sexy in public, cut freedom, less payment, and so on... There is absolutely nothing good about immigration (from different muslim cultures; poverty "refugees" to be more precise*). Nothing!
That, to me, seems to be the majority of people - no?* I welcome our friend from all over the world who believe in freedom and share our POVs of fairness and culture...
It doesn´t matter even if there is a shit load of secret atheists in the muslim countries, since the believing hardliners rule everything from A to Z. They are brainwashed from childhood on to fight the holy war. And our political correct people who welcome those sick people have no clue. It´s a sad sad story...ray j willings said:Being that the penalty for apostasy in the Koran/quran is death, You have to be one strong person to get off that train. I bet there are sh5tloads of secret atheists.
No prob with that... But FYI, Miss Gomez wasn´t in a catholic church, she was in a muslim mosque. You really think the coward christs would have said anything about her if she was going to their church(es)? OFC not... The christs even defend moslems over Pegida (yet those moslems wish nothing but death for christians, while Pegida only wants to save the little rest of our once great countries)!Christian said:I agree with you that there are many more things wrong with religion, other than its disdain for women. But it is such a broad spectrum (since the holy books cover every aspect of human existence, i.e. Hitchens calling them "totalitarian") that I find it difficult to discuss it in absolute terms. I prefer to discuss one aspect at a time. This story about Selena Gomez caught my eye today, so I brought it up - but this doesn't mean that I think that this is the only thing wrong with religion.
So then, start now. Before you become just another "I didn´t know" lemming.Christian said:I admit that I have not read the Quran
They are long over with holy wars & all the shit surronding it. They had their reformations. Now they are just toothless tigers who didn´t even had anything going against two of the biggest criminals ever (Stalin & Hitler).Christian said:But doesn't the Bible also contain many of these very same subjects?
OK, I dont wanna write a book, so just some numbers:Christian said:I am not sure what you mean by "let them in". Europe is commonly refered to as a "fortress", and judging by the risk that people take to make it to the continent, I'd say the EU is doing its best not to let people in. This is also the purpose of the mercenary force Frontex, which is paid for by EU funds.
They do. Day in day out I read articles of them telling how us important they are for us. And everytime I feel like vomiting. We pay everybody: Banksters, intruders & children (via Kindergeld) from poor european countries (speak Bulgaria and Romania), moslems, countries with a lesser BIP, corrupts politicans in the EU and national "Parliaments", and so on, and so on... but no one asks those where the money comes from, who pays them: The totally exploited union workers from Germany.Christian said:Following your theory, big business and industry should lobby for extremely lax immigration laws - yet immigration laws and border controls are getting stricter all the time for the Schengen zone.
1st of all: Saudi Arabia is a barbaric middle age country with slaves and all the shit that surrounds the quran...Christian said:And why do we know that Saudi Arabia is dangerous? Because we know what material they have: we sold it to them. This, to me, is the true crime of big business: we sell massive weaponry to dictators and criminal leaders who oppress their people, exterminate minorities or threaten to attack other countries.
I would not refute that. You know, the grandma thing...Christian said:Western countries like to showcase the money they spend on development cooperation - what they don't say is that the profits they make from weapon sales are much higher. This is the case for Belgium for example, the same probably counts for France and Germany.
Dont make the mistake to confuse educated workers from friendly countries with poverty "refugees" from muslim countries. That´s like comparing apples with oranges. Again: I have nothing against our friends from around the world who believe in our principles: Freedom and fairness. They are always welcome...Christian said:My country, Luxembourg, would never have achieved the wealth it has today if it hadn't been for immigrant workers. Italians and Portuguese helped build the country we could never have built by ourselves. Still today our economy could not survive without immigrants.
Where you live? On a finca with high walls in Mallorca? ... Come to Berlin, or Essen, or Duiburg, and you´ll wake up!Christian said:But leaving aside the obvious economic profit, I am someone who enjoys learning about other cultures. It is what you call the multiculti brainwash. It seems to me you perceive immigration as part of a "cultural war" determined to do away with your way of life, or your culture. I do not perceive it this way - I think cultures always change and evolve, and that is in no way a bad thing to me.
Here comes Foxy again. Just exactly which religion/nationality/ethnic group/un-educated group of non Germanic peoples goes by the name moslems?OK, I dont wanna write a book, so just some numbers:
Foreigners (mostly un-educated moslems)
Switzerland 23 %
Germany 20 %
Austria 12 %
Even though I don't think it's of much use to debate you, I don't have to let your misinformation stand unchallanged.FoxxyBrown1111 said:OK, I dont wanna write a book, so just some numbers:
Foreigners (mostly un-educated moslems)
Switzerland 23 %
Germany 20 %
Austria 12 %
Wtf are you talking about man? Never heard of the Bekennende Kirche? Dietrich Bonhoeffer ring a bell? Never heard of the persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union? Churches burned? Millions of Christians suffering in prison camps? You know pope John Paul II is commonly recognized as having helped the end of the communist rule?FoxxyBrown1111 said:They are long over with holy wars & all the shit surronding it. They had their reformations. Now they are just toothless tigers who didn´t even had anything going against two of the biggest criminals ever (Stalin & Hitler).
The islam OTOH is the same old barbaric religion it was from day one on. That´s the huge huge difference...
That reads like something I might read quoted in the clinic. "Rider x is commonly recognized as having been 100% clean. " making something sound like a fact by using media opinion as the barometer.Maaaaaaaarten said:You know pope John Paul II is commonly recognized as having helped the end of the communist rule?
I find it disturbing that you mention churches being burnt on the same level as millions of deaths.Never heard of the persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union? Churches burned? Millions of Christians suffering in prison camps?
Hugh Januss said:moslems?
What you are trying to say? The first group you mention is a religious group, the 2nd is a race.Hugh Januss said:I would be interested to hear your thoughts regarding the American Nigro.
Same here. But I can´t let your lies stand...Rechtschreibfehler said:Even though I don't think it's of much use to debate you, I don't have to let your misinformation stand unchallanged.
Citizens of Germany, yes. But still foreigners. You can´t debate that fact away. If they have two passports, they belong to their original country. Just common sense...Rechtschreibfehler said:What Foxxy here calls foreigners are people with a brackground in migration. More than half of them are German citizens.
Where did I refuse to count them? They are in the 20% number (official stats by the government FYI !!), ... but YOU forgot to count the illegals that are not counted by the official government stats... Do your homework before attacking me.Rechtschreibfehler said:8,7% are foreigners. Of course I guess the other 11% are "Papierdeutsche"(Paper-Germans) to Foxxy so he refuses to count them.
BS. Again you intentionally forgot to count the double passport holders and illegals. I don´t know the precise number, but it´s higher than your 5% lie (because you only counted the 5% out of your wrong 8.7 % number)...Rechtschreibfehler said:Besides this, we have his claim that most of them are moslems, plus they are uneducated. The problem is: "only" about 5% of the German population are muslims.
Total wrong calculation. See last chapter. 2+2 isn´t 5 FYI...Rechtschreibfehler said:So even if we assumed all of them were foreigners in foxxys crude tolerant interpretation, still 15% of those 20% are not.
YOU are intentionally lying (or at best missed math in school; either way your numbers are wrong).Rechtschreibfehler said:you are intentionally lying in order to propagade your xenophobic bull****.
Don´t twist reality. YOU made simple math errors. YOU cherry picked numbers to "prove" whatever you wanted to "prove"... All you did was lying and personally attacking me. The usual tactics applied by multi-kulti lefties who can´t admit their experiments gone deadly wrong...Rechtschreibfehler said:And don't start cherry picking statistics now to get out of this, I am using the very same data that says that 20% of the population have a background in migration.
What are you trying to say? That Stalin was a mass murderer? I said that already. But what the heck has that to do with my post you quoted?Maaaaaaaarten said:Wtf are you talking about man? Never heard of the Bekennende Kirche? Dietrich Bonhoeffer ring a bell? Never heard of the persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union? Churches burned? Millions of Christians suffering in prison camps? You know pope John Paul II is commonly recognized as having helped the end of the communist rule?
So far so "good".... But FYI, they don´t even need to become the majority. Just read Mr. Williams post (# 1632) above to get enlighted...Maaaaaaaarten said:I'm not naive and I know full well there are dangerous tendencies in the Islam which might see the light in Europe if the Muslims ever become the majority here
Where have I been xenophobic and demagogic? Rhetorical question... You and I know I wasn´t... Waiting for your apology...Maaaaaaaarten said:but your xenophobic and demagogic nonsense is just as dangerous.
How am I the coward? If all, I have the courage to say the truth behind the islam. Who else did it here? Who? Everybody is feared to death to say anything bad about this dangerous religion...Maaaaaaaarten said:If anything, you're the coward here, motivated by fear; instead of tackling any real problems you just generalize and insult large groups of society.
Read what I replied too. In an earlier post Foxy claimed Christianity is one of the worst religions because Christians are all cowards and in the portion I quote he supports this by claiming they didn't do anything against Hitler and Stalin. As I've showed, this is simply factually incorrect in both Germany and the USSR many Christians opposed these two dictators to the point of death. It's a plain simple fact we had the Bekennende Kirche in Germany and that millions of Christians ended up in prison camps exactly because they opposed Stalin. Foxy's claims were ludicrous and offensive.The Hitch said:I find it disturbing that you mention churches being burnt on the same level as millions of deaths.
But anyway why do you only focus on the suffering of Christians. People of all backgrounds and cosmological opinions died in the ussr. what point are you trying to make? Christians died in some human tragedies therefore that excuses the 2 thousand year terror that has been waged in it's name?
See my reply to the Hitch.FoxxyBrown1111 said:What are you trying to say? That Stalin was a mass murderer? I said that already. But what the heck has that to do with my post you quoted?
Well, to be honest, I stopped taking your 'truth' about the Islam seriously after I undertook the effort to look up some of the Surah's you posted as incriminating the Islam. I gave up after the first two.....FoxxyBrown1111 said:Where have I been xenophobic and demagogic? Rhetorical question... You and I know I wasn´t... Waiting for your apology...
How am I the coward? If all, I have the courage to say the truth behind the islam. Who else did it here? Who? Everybody is feared to death to say anything bad about this dangerous religion...
Thus: Waiting for an apology for your personal attack calling me a coward.
All right. I give up. Stay ignorant, and personally insult messengers instead.Maaaaaaaarten said: