Research on Belief in God

[Eshnar]

Which is stupid because what they ought to be more scared of is not disappearing for good.

Believing an afterlife would be pleasant is like thinking your football team will win because you want them to.

Humans in the modern era, due to massive strokes of luck and centuries of painful development, are the only creatures, bar some of our pets maybe, on this planet for whom it is possible to enjoy life.

Every other creature to ever inhabit the earth has lived in a constant struggle with hunger, fear (of predators), tooth aches etc until a grim end, and this includes 99% of the humans to ever inhabit the earth.

What is it about the few decades these people have spent in this universe that makes them think eternal life will be anything but constant suffering?

I don't mean they want an eternal life - I mean they want another life.

As for the enjoying our life, if we're where we are now it's precisely because we can't do it. None of us is able to be satisfied with his life for a long period of time. We obsessively find ourselves things to improve and problems to solve. Progress they call it.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

One of the most ignored aspects of the debate over religion and whether it is bad or good, is its effect on animals.

The position of the monotheistic religions on animals is backward to start with for obvious reasons since they come from a time before evolution was known.

But what I am talking about mostly is the cruelty to animals that happens in the name of religion. The most famous example is of course halal meat, or kosher in the case of judaism - the belief that the animal needs to be slaughtered in a special, painful way, in order to make it holy.

In the UK, halal butchers are exempt from a law that says one must stun animals first before killing them.

Anyway I am reminded of this now unfortunately as the Hindu religion celebrates its festival of lights "diwali". This "celebration" involves buying up every firecracker in the country and spending 10 hours a day for a week just setting them off. one after the other after the other. The louder the better. Every family does their own show.

Of course there are other reasons for firework displays, but what makes Diwali here so notable is that its not about the display (as say new years is, where some special fireworks that look really good get used for 10 minutes) but about the process itself, so it lasts forever.

It starts at about 5 pm and from then on until 1am an entire area of around 5 square miles lives to the sound of continuous unbroken machine gun fire.

As annoying as it is to humans, at least we know its just some idiots who will stop in a few days. animals on the other hand, to quote the Times of India, "have a heightened sense of hearing so the jolts and loud noises cause many animals to flee in search of safe haven" Unfortunately this is the fate of Sisyphus, since there is no safe heaven to find, the fireworks come from all areas and its hours and hours of running a gauntlet.

The article mainly focuses on pets, since Diwali and Guy Fawkes night (English fireworks "celebration" which fortunately is slightly more controlled with single park displays favoured over the every family for themselves approach) are by far the most common periods for pets to run away causing owners pain, and it happened to me as a child so i know how it feels.

But besides the pets who live in a state of shock for hours, woodland animals like squirrels and birds also suffer and their plight is ignored. They also live in fear for hours and often in their flight in search of a haven, end up away from their nests or even habbitats. More over the fireworks themselves often cause the animals burns or worse.

So atheists are nither cruel to animals nor capable of it, and if only religion had never been created, there would be no cruelty to animals...nor war...nor cruelty to mankind...talk about living in a fantasy world...

 

[The Hitch]

Strawman of the year right there. Well done.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Strawman of the year right there. Well done.

Don't want to own the implications of your comments. I wouldn't either if I'd made them.

 

[The Hitch]

Maybe if we rotate out the nouns, you will see why what you said is so ridiculous.

Person 1: A lot of people died because of communism
Person 2: So no non communist has ever killed anyone. What a fantasy world you live in

There is a difference between criticising groups for behaviour that leads to suffering and arguing that no one outside those groups has ever caused suffering.

Do you really not see the difference.

Unless you can show me where you think it is I said that atheists are incapable of commiting acts that lead to the suffering of animals.

Can you?

Didn't think so

 

[ChewbaccaD]

The greatest fallacy in the world is that in the absence of religion, mankind would have acted differently. It shows an ignorance of mankind but little else.

In opposition to your suggestions, I present you the combined works of Ayn Rand as evidence of just how abhorrent an atheist can become...only she is the logical conclusion of your philosophies because you don't really have a congruent philosophy, nor any reason to derive one. Have fun living in your need to be intellectually superior to everyone else.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Maybe if we rotate out the nouns, you will see why what you said is so ridiculous.

Person 1: A lot of people died because of communism
Person 2: So no non communist has ever killed anyone. What a fantasy world you live in

There is a difference between criticising groups for behaviour that leads to suffering and arguing that no one outside those groups has ever caused suffering.

Do you really not see the difference.

Unless you can show me where you think it is I said that atheists are incapable of commiting acts that lead to the suffering of animals.

Can you?

Didn't think so

Maybe if you route in logic, you'll see just how stupid it is to blame cruelty to animals on religions. Religion is not needed for such things and would happen regardless.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

But you keep pretending that you only pointed out that a religious ceremony is hard on animals to show that sometimes...religions are cruel to animals? That you cannot own honestly the reasoning for your diatribe isn't ridiculous; it's just plain dishonesty.

 

[The Hitch]

Maybe if you route in logic, you'll see just how stupid it is to blame cruelty to animals on religions. Religion is not needed for such things and would happen regardless.

Where did I blame religions for cruelty to animals?

Read the post.

But what I am talking about mostly is the cruelty to animals that happens in the name of religion.

definate article that specifies I am talking about one particular strand of cruelty to animals and definitely NOT, blaming ALL cruelty on animals on religion.


Unless you can show me where you think I did blame religion for all cruelty to animals or suggested that cruelty to animals would not happen without religion, I would hope that you apologize for throwing words in my mouth then proceeding to pound me over the head in an attempt to shove them down my throat.

 

[The Hitch]

Oh, and fu*k you.

What the defence of the believers against the atheists, usually boils down to.

 

[BigMac]

But you keep pretending that you only pointed out that a religious ceremony is hard on animals to show that sometimes...religions are cruel to animals? That you cannot own honestly the reasoning for your diatribe isn't ridiculous; it's just plain dishonesty.

Ofc religion is not the main cause of animal cruelty, but it contributes to it. It is all about one's mind and i am sure there are some twisted atheists.

 

[The Hitch]

Ofc religion is not the main cause of animal cruelty, but it contributes to it.

Nor has anyone ever suggested there is.

But that religion is at times responsible for needless suffering of animals is indisputable. So some, prefer to shut their ears and eyes and resort to the morally outragous defence that it isn't wrong to do something unless no one else has ever done it before.

Judge:Mr Chewbacca, your client was found next to a murdured body, he had the knife in his hand, thirteen witnesses had seen him stab the victim, when the police arrived he said, "I'm glad I killed the *******." Yet you insist he is not guilty?

Chewbacca: Are you suggesting if my client was not alive murder would not exist? That is a fantasy. My client is not responsible for all the murder in this world. Ergo he is innocent.

 

[Echoes]

imho people are more scared of disappearing for good.

and in my humble opinion you should get down to earth, man.

People are religious because they believe in its set of values. Here on planet earth !!!

We don't care about the rest.

Always the same with those atheists. Belittling the believers because they're "softies" and "egocentric" blabla. As if they were social haha.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

in our world good people will do good deeds, and bad people will do bad ones. To make good people to do bad ones, you need religion

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Always the same with those atheists. Belittling the believers because they're "softies" and "egocentric" blabla. As if they were social haha.

Atleast we don't claim to know the thoughts of an immortal super being (or being hos choosen people for that matter), nor do we claim moral authority based on such "knowledge".

 

[ChewbaccaD]

What the defence of the believers against the atheists, usually boils down to.

Yea, the conversation between two people arguing the existence or lack-there-of is the stupidest conversation in the world. Seriously, it is the most futile, pointless, idiotic conversation two people can have.

My only point is that you claim to have made an innocuous point, meant only to enlighten a situation that needs to be corrected, when one need only read some of your other posts, and the writings of the man in your avatar to see that there is much more behind it than that. But hey, you have no reason to be honest as you get to make up your own set of morals...come to think of it, everyone gets to make up their own set of morals so that really doesn't make you special or particularly nefarious for doing so.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

in our world good people will do good deeds, and bad people will do bad ones. To make good people to do bad ones, you need religion

Nope, you just need one person, and another person between them and something they want.

The reality of the world is that the true god isn't the object of a religion. But you believe what you want.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Seriously? Did you had to finish it of like that?

Ofc religion is not the main cause of animal cruelty, but it contributes to it. It is all about one's mind and i am sure there are some twisted atheists.

No it doesn't, it's just the excuse used.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Nope, you just need one person, and another person between them and something they want.

The reality of the world is that the true god isn't the object of a religion. But you believe what you want.

Well atleast we agree that all religions are wrong.

btw, what is the "true god"?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

No it doesn't, it's just the excuse used.

Isn't that one getting kinda old?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Well atleast we agree that all religions are wrong.

btw, what is the "true god"?

Selfishness in it's various forms.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Isn't that one getting kinda old?

Sure, if the truth gets old...

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Well atleast we agree that all religions are wrong.

btw, what is the "true god"?

Also, nice way to avoid the truth of the statement that preceded that one...I would have avoided it too if I had no counter to it.

Edit: And with that, I'm out of here. This is the most useless thread on this entire forum. Have fun with your argument...

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Sure, if the truth gets old...

Honestly, I am not sure for how long this disscusion has been going on (?) but if we still are talking about animal cruelty, it is kinda obvious that one would not let a animal die slowly of blood loss, unless there is some religious mandate behind it... (ofc some sadists are out there, but don't tell me there are more sadist killings than halal killings in this world)

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Honestly, I am not sure for how long this disscusion has been going on (?) but if we still are talking about animal cruelty, it is kinda obvious that one would not let a animal die slowly of blood loss, unless there is some religious mandate behind it... (ofc some sadists are out there, but don't tell me there are more sadist killings than halal killings in this world)

Okay, one more post just because you need to know the world doesn't work like you think it does.

Have you ever spent time around people who torture animals to death? Because I have, and I can assure you that religion or lack-thereof is not the reason they do it.