Research on Belief in God

[Nastyy]

I don't believe in anything supernatural, unless I'd happen to see it with my own eyes. Don't like really religious people, though ironically my best friend is very passionate about religion.

I'm still part of the Lutheran church but I'm going to leave the church, just haven't got around it yet. Being baptized because you're parents believe in something is kinda silly.

 

[Anonymous]

Dont beleive in god. Believe Jesus existed but that Life or Brian is probably the most factual record of his life.

Opposed to religion in most forms. Preaches hate and intolerance, teaches people that being Homesexual is wrong, that being different is wrong, that people of different beliefs or religion to you is wrong. Religion is responsible for so many wars and deaths from the Crusades to the west battles against Islam.

Most Christians i have encountered are the most intolerant and unchristian people I have ever met.

However, I understand that for some people faith is important, and if they wish to have faith then it is none of my business. If it makes them happy then good luck to them, as long as they use it to live lives of peace, tollerance and kindness.

 

[Descender]

Yes, I do.



I'm a Catholic.



I dunno, never had any problem with people who thinks otherwise (there's a lot of them among my friends). Everyone has a right to believe whatever he/she wants, and the worst thing you/I can do is trying to prove somebody that everything he/she believes in (no matter is it atheism, agnosticism or any religion) is a bs.

Why is that?

 

[Havetts]

Because people are entitled to have their own opinion and beliefs, I don't like it when Jehova's Witnesses are at the door trying to (with all respect) shove their opinion down my throat. I imagine its the same for Catholics being harassed by atheists cause they believe in God.

 

[Descender]

Because people are entitled to have their own opinion and beliefs, I don't like it when Jehova's Witnesses are at the door trying to (with all respect) shove their opinion down my throat. I imagine its the same for Catholics being harassed by atheists cause they believe in God.

There is a big difference between harassing things down someone's throat and trying to have an amicable discussion.

We bump into another common misconception of the modern world. The right to something has nothing to do with the exercise of that right. Of course people are entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. But that doesn't make them a bit more (or less) true. I am not questioning the right to religion, I am questioning the exercise that is made of that right by believers.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Dont beleive in god. Believe Jesus existed but that Life or Brian is probably the most factual record of his life.

Opposed to religion in most forms. Preaches hate and intolerance, teaches people that being Homesexual is wrong, that being different is wrong, that people of different beliefs or religion to you is wrong. Religion is responsible for so many wars and deaths from the Crusades to the west battles against Islam.

Most Christians i have encountered are the most intolerant and unchristian people I have ever met.

However, I understand that for some people faith is important, and if they wish to have faith then it is none of my business. If it makes them happy then good luck to them, as long as they use it to live lives of peace, tollerance and kindness.

Some of these statements show ignorance on your behalf. While I do not agree with all principles of Religion, saying it preaches hate and intolerance is a very narrow minded comment. If you actually understood what some of what religion teaches then you may realise that is not necessarily the case.

Yes many wars have been caused by Religious hate, but many wars have also been due to power, money and politics which religious and non religious people have been behind.

This may sound a little wacky but sometimes I do believe there is a God and sometimes I do find it hard. I am a little confused in that way.

 

[Kvinto]

Why is that?

I don't like talks about religion, and wouldn't like to hear from somebody how wrong are my thoughts (because it can insult quite often, though not everytime), in the end everyone does what he/she believes is right and for me it's more important than whether is he/she religious or not.

 

[ramjambunath]

I am not religious but have nothing against religion per se.

I will keep this as generic as possible considering this has been a very sensitive issue here in the near past. Religion has shaped society in every form, both good and bad. In the east, science and spirituality have had a very harmonious existence which led to a very highly evolved and sophisticated society (Anu, Paramanu were part of the vedas but were just as scientific in that era and even the dates we use are intertwined with religion).

On the other hand, when religion has closed its mind into a narrow line of thinking, only harm is done. There are hundreds of examples of this which can be researched very easily on the net.

There is a big difference between harassing things down someone's throat and trying to have an amicable discussion.

We bump into another common misconception of the modern world. The right to something has nothing to do with the exercise of that right. Of course people are entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. But that doesn't make them a bit more (or less) true. I am not questioning the right to religion, I am questioning the exercise that is made of that right by believers.

I would never mind having a good constructive discussion with anyone, whether the person agrees with me or not but Kvinto posted that he doesn't like to prove to somebody that their beliefs are 'bs' and that's the line that nobody should cross.

I would've voted for Hoogerland, but Havetts already did.

 

[Anonymous]

I am an athoogerland in that I can assure you there is no Johnny Hoogerland.

 

[Descender]

I don't like talks about religion, and wouldn't like to hear from somebody how wrong are my thoughts (because it can insult quite often, though not everytime), in the end everyone does what he/she believes is right and for me it's more important than whether is he/she religious or not.

Wouldn't you say that such view is narrow-minded, stubborn and intolerant? Note I am not calling you anything, merely trying to understand your point of view.

If a friend of yours had cancer, and he thought that chewing mint leaves was all he needed to be cured, wouldn't you try and convince your friend that he is wrong and that the consequences of his actions, if he carries them through, would be undesirable?

 

[Descender]

I am not religious but have nothing against religion per se.

I will keep this as generic as possible considering this has been a very sensitive issue here in the near past. Religion has shaped society in every form, both good and bad. In the east, science and spirituality have had a very harmonious existence which led to a very highly evolved and sophisticated society (Anu, Paramanu were part of the vedas but were just as scientific in that era and even the dates we use are intertwined with religion).

On the other hand, when religion has closed its mind into a narrow line of thinking, only harm is done. There are hundreds of examples of this which can be researched very easily on the net.



I would never mind having a good constructive discussion with anyone, whether the person agrees with me or not but Kvinto posted that he doesn't like to prove to somebody that their beliefs are 'bs' and that's the line that nobody should cross.

I would've voted for Hoogerland, but Havetts already did.

Is that your view too, or are you only quoting Kvinto?

Like I said, just as others claim to have the right to have a belief, I claim to have the right to say that that belief is bs.

 

[Anonymous]

Is that your view too, or are you only quoting Kvinto?

Like I said, just as others claim to have the right to have a belief, I claim to have the right to say that that belief is bs.

And I have the right to say that no belief is bs, and round and round we go, swing your partner to an fro, now dossey doe...

 

[Anonymous]

Some of these statements show ignorance on your behalf.

Not ignorance, but perhaps I could have elaborated further but I chose to avoid being overly inflammatory.

Fwiw I have read the entire bible, the book of Mormon and am working my way through the Koran.

Obviously my thoughts were not meant to be taken as sweeping statements, that would be me acting like many so called christians act. There are a large proportion of religious people who beleive in peace, love and understanding, but there are also a large percentage who believe that for instance, man should not lie with man and if you do so you will be judged by god and cast into eternal damnation, just as they beleive that HIV was a plague sent by god to punish the sinners.

Yes, not all wars are started by religion, in some occasions religion is merely used as an excuse and if it did not exist man would find other reasons to go to war, but much intollerance in mankinds history, from the crusades, to the burning of witches, to the hanging and beheaded of many thousands of people in the 1600's was in the name of religion.

FWIW i beleive that probably the most tolerant and peaceful religion is Hinduism closely followed by Islam. But of course, many christians beleive that Muslims are all heathen extremist terrorists..

I give this thread two pages before its closed.

 

[ramjambunath]

Is that your view too, or are you only quoting Kvinto?

Like I said, just as others claim to have the right to have a belief, I claim to have the right to say that that belief is bs.

The first part of the bold was quoting Kvinto. The part about that being the line not to be crossed was my belief. I don't mind anyone stating his case, and strongly too, but I won't want him to criticise me just because I hold an opposite view. The same applies to myself when trying put my case forward.

I'd like to think of it as respect to someone who doesn't share your views.

 

[Kvinto]

Wouldn't you say that such view is narrow-minded, stubborn and intolerant? Note I am not calling you anything, merely trying to understand your point of view.

If a friend of yours had cancer, and he thought that chewing mint leaves was all he needed to be cured, wouldn't you try and convince your friend that he is wrong and that the consequences of his actions, if he carries them through, would be undesirable?

I use that point of view only to religious stuff: the main point for me is not to insult and not to be insulted, but denying somebody's religious beliefs is a straight way to do this. And i hope there is no religion that says that chewing mint leaves can help with a cancer because i disagree
I think i understand what you are talking about. There will always be things acceptable and things unacceptable. For me proving wrong in the case of mint leaves/cancer is acceptable but "You are fool because you believe in God" is unacceptable.

I am not religious but have nothing against religion per se.

I will keep this as generic as possible considering this has been a very sensitive issue here in the near past. Religion has shaped society in every form, both good and bad. In the east, science and spirituality have had a very harmonious existence which led to a very highly evolved and sophisticated society (Anu, Paramanu were part of the vedas but were just as scientific in that era and even the dates we use are intertwined with religion).

On the other hand, when religion has closed its mind into a narrow line of thinking, only harm is done. There are hundreds of examples of this which can be researched very easily on the net.

fully agree

 

[Luke Schmid]

You might as well close it now, then. People are inevitably going to get upset.

Which brings me to one of my points, which Richard Dawkins so often makes too. Why is religion worthy of so much respect? Why is it ok to bash politicians because of their positions, writers because of their novels, filmmakers because of their films, but it's not ok to criticise religion or their principles?

In this same forum there are dozens of threads on politics. Quite clearly, people get upset there every day. Are those threads closed because of that?

When people get upset on account of religion matters, it is most usually their choice and theirs only to get upset. I say let us have a sensible, constructive debate. Let us be polite in a democratic way. But as long as we do it this way, let us express our views freely too, without fear of upsetting other people's ideals.

In my view, as a religious person, it is perfectly okay to criticize religion, why on earth would it be wrong. I have been involved in some quite willing religious discussions (perhaps arguements is a better word) on the internet before. I am a bit older now so I don't do it to the same extent, but I see nothing wrong with being blunt.

 

[Luke Schmid]

Yes, I do.



I'm a Catholic.



I dunno, never had any problem with people who thinks otherwise (there's a lot of them among my friends). Everyone has a right to believe whatever he/she wants, and the worst thing you/I can do is trying to prove somebody that everything he/she believes in (no matter is it atheism, agnosticism or any religion) is a bs.

Why is it the worst thing? Would you rather them burn in hell for eternity than perhaps annoy them by attempting to show them that they are wrong?

 

[Luke Schmid]

Being baptized because you're parents believe in something is kinda silly.

Agree, although I would say it is more than kinda silly.

 

[Kvinto]

Why is it the worst thing? Would you rather them burn in hell for eternity than perhaps annoy them by attempting to show them that they are wrong?

I just posted it above. I'm talking about a situation when somebody says "You are fool because you believe in God", for me it's unappropriate.
edit: i don't think if i have my belief then anybody's other belief is wrong.

 

[Luke Schmid]

Because people are entitled to have their own opinion and beliefs, I don't like it when Jehova's Witnesses are at the door trying to (with all respect) shove their opinion down my throat. I imagine its the same for Catholics being harassed by atheists cause they believe in God.

JW's are only doing what they are commanded to do, preach. Best thing to do is try and convince them you are right and totally confuse them. They probably will not come back.

 

[thirteen]

Wouldn't you say that such view is narrow-minded, stubborn and intolerant? Note I am not calling you anything, merely trying to understand your point of view.

If a friend of yours had cancer, and he thought that chewing mint leaves was all he needed to be cured, wouldn't you try and convince your friend that he is wrong and that the consequences of his actions, if he carries them through, would be undesirable?

interesting that you used that as an example... talk, like that, when it comes to religion is exactly what turns me off.

when my grandmother was dying, i was told she must accept Jesus Christ into her life or she would ho to hell.

me, i could care less, but don't you dare say that about my grandmother!

the friend, by the way, was trying to prevent an "undesirable" outcome

 

[auscyclefan94]

Not ignorance, but perhaps I could have elaborated further but I chose to avoid being overly inflammatory.

Fwiw I have read the entire bible, the book of Mormon and am working my way through the Koran.

Obviously my thoughts were not meant to be taken as sweeping statements, that would be me acting like many so called christians act. There are a large proportion of religious people who beleive in peace, love and understanding, but there are also a large percentage who believe that for instance, man should not lie with man and if you do so you will be judged by god and cast into eternal damnation, just as they beleive that HIV was a plague sent by god to punish the sinners.

Yes, not all wars are started by religion, in some occasions religion is merely used as an excuse and if it did not exist man would find other reasons to go to war, but much intollerance in mankinds history, from the crusades, to the burning of witches, to the hanging and beheaded of many thousands of people in the 1600's was in the name of religion.

FWIW i beleive that probably the most tolerant and peaceful religion is Hinduism closely followed by Islam. But of course, many christians beleive that Muslims are all heathen extremist terrorists..

I give this thread two pages before its closed.

That post is again such rubbish. Talk about ridiculous generalisations. I know many Christians and would say the statements you have made are totally absurd and show you as being prejudicial. I am little shocked reading this post from someone like you who I have the up most respect for.

Can I ask did you seriously read those books or are you saying that you read them even though you didn't so your point of view looks more valid? I am seriously starting to wonder this after this post.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Not ignorance, but perhaps I could have elaborated further but I chose to avoid being overly inflammatory.

Fwiw I have read the entire bible, the book of Mormon and am working my way through the Koran.

Obviously my thoughts were not meant to be taken as sweeping statements, that would be me acting like many so called christians act. There are a large proportion of religious people who beleive in peace, love and understanding, but there are also a large percentage who believe that for instance, man should not lie with man and if you do so you will be judged by god and cast into eternal damnation, just as they beleive that HIV was a plague sent by god to punish the sinners.

Yes, not all wars are started by religion, in some occasions religion is merely used as an excuse and if it did not exist man would find other reasons to go to war, but much intollerance in mankinds history, from the crusades, to the burning of witches, to the hanging and beheaded of many thousands of people in the 1600's was in the name of religion.

FWIW i beleive that probably the most tolerant and peaceful religion is Hinduism closely followed by Islam. But of course, many christians beleive that Muslims are all heathen extremist terrorists..

I give this thread two pages before its closed.

LMAO..no its not.

 

[Anonymous]

That post is again such rubbish. Talk about ridiculous generalisations. I know many Christians and would say the statements you have made are totally absurd and show you as being prejudicial. I am little shocked reading this post from someone like you who I have the up most respect for.

Can I ask did you seriously read those books or are you saying that you read them even though you didn't so your point of view looks more valid? I am seriously starting to wonder this after this post.

why is that rubbish, there are a large percentage of christians who beleive that homosexuality is against everything good and that they will be damned. Your opinion may be that this is not true, but my opinion is that is is.

And yes, read the bible from start to finish by the time i was about 14 (i read more books than you can imagine as a child), and read the book of Mormon after some guys from the church of the latter day saints left me a copy about 15 years ago or so (actually had a very good discussion with them, the mormons are very open to talking to people who dont beleive as their idea is more that you use the bible as a guide to how to live, not as a definative set of instructions). The Koran i started reading an english version many many years ago, but its pretty hard going. I read a bit from time to time. We actually have two bibles in the house despite myself not being christian and my wife being on the fence.

Interesting example. My grandparents are devout christians, go to church regularly, think they are good people, dont watch tv after 8pm becaue of the sex and language, yet when my gf discovered a flatmate was of african descent his only concern was did I have a lock on my door "because you know what those people are like". They cross the road from skinheads or people who look different "because you know what those sort of people are like". My mother in law who is a devout christian, goes to church several times a week, goes on retreats with the church, has shocked both myself and the wife on a couple of occasions with her racism and homophobia.

there are some good lessons in the bible or similar books on which to base your beliefs in life. Treating others as you would wish to be treated, practising kindess etc, but I dont need a church to tell me how to be a good person, and in many ways I feel I am more tolerant than many religions suggest you should be.

And as i stated in my post, it was not meant to be a sweeping generelisation. It very much depends if you take what I said literally or if you have the intelligence to read the general purpose and thought behind my post.

on the hiv subject

Exodus 9:2 If you refuse to (obey god and) let them go and continue to hold them back, the hand of the LORD will bring a terrible plague on your livestock in the field--on your horses and donkeys and camels and on your cattle and sheep and goats. But the LORD will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and that of Egypt (the bad people), so that no animal belonging to the Israelites (the good people) will die.' "

Exodus 9:13-16 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, `This is what the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me, or this time I will send the full force of my plagues against you and against your officials and your people, so you may know that there is no one like me in all the earth. For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth. But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

Deuteronomy 28:20-22 The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him. The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. The LORD will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish.

Of course its all down to personal interpretation. Some christians read those sections of the bible and beleive that HIV is a plague from god for lying with another man, and the bible in their eyes confirms this. Some christians beleive that they should open their homes to those with sickness's (Matthew 25), break bread with them, share their home with them or to heal them (Luke 17). Its all down to the individuals interpretation of the bible and its message. Maybe i should rephrase, its not that I am opposed to religion, but I am opposed to individuals who use and interpret religion in a way that allows them to preach hate and intolerance in gods name.

LMAO..no its not.

just my opinion. Was interesting to see in the british riots the other month when the three young men were killed, the father spoke not of revenge or retribution but of peace. That if it was allah's plan that the men should lose their lives, then that was his plan and they bow to his judgement.

Can you offer any specific examples of how Hinduism and Islam are not peaceful cultures.

 

[Luke Schmid]

That post is again such rubbish. Talk about ridiculous generalisations. I know many Christians and would say the statements you have made are totally absurd and show you as being prejudicial. I am little shocked reading this post from someone like you who I have the up most respect for.

Can I ask did you seriously read those books or are you saying that you read them even though you didn't so your point of view looks more valid? I am seriously starting to wonder this after this post.

Are you denying that there is a large number of Christians in the world who believe homesexuality is a sin and a sinner goes to hell? Also there are Christians that believe the HIV was send from God as a punishment for homosexuality?
I can assure you that they do exist and with significant numbers.