Riccò hospitalized for possible kidney ailment

[hfer07]

aside from what has been already said on the level of Ricco's stupidity, I must confess I would have liked to watch him riding a couple races before his fall-but I guess the fall came first & this one is the direct route to the grave of cycling shame.

 

[131313]

I am talking about doctor patient confidentiality...

Regarding doctor patient confidentiality, I think that the US HIPAA law is among the most restrictive out there, and even so I think one could make a case that the doctors had a right to inform the authorities. I say that because there would be a reasonable assumption that a 3rd party was involved in the act that caused harm, hence the exception. Given the type of crime committed, the commission of the crime itself really wouldn't be enough to divulge PHI (in this country).

I can't imagine Italy's laws on the subject are even more restrictive, but maybe someone familiar with Italian law can chime in.

 

[MarkvW]

Error message

Doping is illegal in Italy = Threfore it is against the law = Therefore it is a crime.

Everything that is illegal is not a crime.
Civil illegalities are not crimes.

 

[Barrus]

Regarding doctor patient confidentiality, I think that the US HIPAA law is among the most restrictive out there, and even so I think one could make a case that the doctors had a right to inform the authorities. I say that because there would be a reasonable assumption that a 3rd party was involved in the act that caused harm, hence the exception. Given the type of crime committed, the commission of the crime itself really wouldn't be enough to divulge PHI (in this country).

I can't imagine Italy's laws on the subject are even more restrictive, but maybe someone familiar with Italian law can chime in.

Yeah, that was almost exactly like I meant, which was also why I was so amazed that Daotec said that I was wrong. But apperently he is talking about something else

 

[DAOTEC]

will help you out

Apparently you and I are talking about 2 completely different things. I am talking about doctor patient confidentiality, you are talking about the doping law. Something completely different, or am I wrong in interpreting your post?

More or less: Without a talking docor > "No Case" ... if the Cobra sticks it out and contacts the right people he will win, and en passant take in quite generous retirement money ...

but can you than please provide for the directive, the resolution,

That is asking me to " soufflé", in "naïveté" the enemy, who is still sleeping on one ear.

 

[Barrus]

So Daotec you are of the opinion that a doctor is not allowed to divulge this information to the authorities?

 

[DAOTEC]

So Daotec you are of the opinion that a doctor is not allowed to divulge this information to the authorities?

as I already stated below ... in absolute terms 'unconstitutional', as in this case there is not even talk (yet) of Accelerating Performance of any kind through non conventional blood boosting. A transfusion alone is not enough and not illegal.

Now you hit it big Barrus ....

As that might be the case in some, I repeat some (vast minority) European states/countries within the European Union, "It's absolute against the EU law" ...

So if the Cobra for once keeps his mouth shut, sticks to his own version from now on, and let the process take it's time, some crusaders (incl. the Doc) trying to nail him will get in big trouble.



Recyling you're own blood isn't against the (any) law, and is not illegal or even punishable in regards to the doping 'witch hunt', only when can be established that it was upgraded through unconventional means.

 

[Barrus]

as I already stated below ... in absolute terms 'unconstitutional', as in this case there is not even talk (yet) of Accelerating Performance of any kind through non conventional blood boosting. A transfusion alone is not enough and not illegal.

But still if Ricco admitted to have used blood doping he would have violated the current Italian law and as such the doctor would become aware of an illegal act and as such is either obligated or has the right to divulge this information to the authorities. You however state that this is not the case, yet when I ask for any provision that deals with this you come up with inane answers. So I think I will just stop discussing this point with you, since there is no discussing with you

 

[Anonymous]

But still if Ricco admitted to have used blood doping he would have violated the current Italian law and as such the doctor would become aware of an illegal act and as such is either obligated or has the right to divulge this information to the authorities. You however state that this is not the case, yet when I ask for any provision that deals with this you come up with inane answers. So I think I will just stop discussing this point with you, since there is no discussing with you

And again as i said earlier, my doctor (or anyone else i work with who confidentiality agreements) is allowed to break that agreement if i commit or plan to commit a crime or i endanger my life or the lives of others.

If ricco wasnt doing anything illegal under italian law, he was almost certainly endangering his life. At that point doctors ethics over the safety of the patient step in. The doctor did the right thing in breaking the confidentiality. He did the wrong thing in breaking it to the press rather than the authorities.

 

[DAOTEC]

But still ?'if' Ricco admitted to have used blood doping he would have violated the current Italian law

agree, but that is not reported (yet) a transfusion alone doesn't hold up. 2) that law again doesn't hold up ?'if' this case ends up in Strasbourg.

and as such the doctor would become aware of an illegal act and as such is either obligated or has the right to divulge this information to the authorities.

and there you go a doctor speculating or starts fantasyzing (

) cause this is Ricardo Riccó we are dealing with here and maybe I don't like him, or even worse made a view phone calls ($$$) before his announcement.
Don't forget this is Italy, Comprende my good friend.

yet when I ask for any provision that deals with this you come up with inane answers. So I think I will just stop discussing this point with you, since there is no discussing with you

easy, easy soon my dear penpal, soon you will get the picture. By the way CN already just published a wake-up call in the Berto and that is just the beginning.

 

[Barrus]

And again as i said earlier, my doctor (or anyone else i work with who confidentiality agreements) is allowed to break that agreement if i commit or plan to commit a crime or i endanger my life or the lives of others.

If ricco wasnt doing anything illegal under italian law, he was almost certainly endangering his life. At that point doctors ethics over the safety of the patient step in. The doctor did the right thing in breaking the confidentiality. He did the wrong thing in breaking it to the press rather than the authorities.

And I completely agree with you, most European States have such provisions, however Daotec states that these provisions are against European Law, but he seems unwilling to state in any manner against which regulation or directive

To the bolded, I still don't know if this is clear, especially seeing as certain sources state that they got it out of official documents of the public prosecutor that filed the statements of the doctor in the public domain

 

[profff]

And I completely agree with you, most European States have such provisions, however Daotec states that these provisions are against European Law, but he seems unwilling to state in any manner against which regulation or directive

To the bolded, I still don't know if this is clear, especially seeing as certain sources state that they got it out of official documents of the public prosecutor that filed the statements of the doctor in the public domain

in italy a doctor working for the national health service in a emergency department is obliged to the law to inform the authorities if somebody is in danger for life as a consequence of violence, illegal behavior, mva and so on.

do it yourself autologous transfusions is illegal, doping is illegal in italy, so the doctor just filled his duty.
he did not break any rule of confidentiality, heyhe doctor just did what tje law ask him to do.

by the way, the pavullo hospital stated that the doctor just informed the authorities and hat the leak to the press and media did not come from the hospital..

 

[DAOTEC]

And again as i said earlier, my doctor (or anyone else i work with who confidentiality agreements) is allowed to break that agreement if i commit or plan to commit a crime

1) There is no crime.

or i endanger "MY" life

2) Your doc is not allowed

or the lives of others.

3) 'not the case'

If ricco wasnt doing anything illegal under italian law, he was almost certainly endangering "HIS" life. At that point doctors ethics over the safety of the patient step in.

same answer: the doc is not allowed

The doctor did the right thing in breaking the confidentiality. He did the wrong thing in breaking it to the press rather than the authorities.

'No' the doc did break the law, and maybe also his own Italian law, that allows to do so in certain instances, will have a provision build in already (as in other countries that have this CA clause), that other substantial evidence had to be present.

And I completely agree with you, most European States have such provisions, however Daotec states that these provisions are against European Law, but he seems unwilling to state in any manner against which regulation or directive

the enemy still asleep might start reading here Barrus ... but you'll get the message soon enough, if it's not already spreading.

 

[ulrikmm]

@Daotec: What do you mean by "European law"?

The EU is a union of individual nations, each with their own legislation, police forces and courts.

Eg. the Danish legislation has roots back to Jyske Lov ("laws of Jutland") from 1241, and Skånske Lov ("laws of Skåne")from 1202.

 

[Mambo95]

Isn't The Law in Italy somewhat elastic at the best of times, anyway?

Matt Rendell managed to get his hands on piles of medical records for Pantani (who was admittedly dead), so I imagine the authorities will manage it for Ricco if they need to.

 

[Anonymous]

im not even sure I know what point is being made here anymore

 

[Barrus]

@Daotec: What do you mean by "European law"?

The EU is a union of individual nations, each with their own legislation, police forces and courts.

Eg. the Danish legislation has roots back to Jyske Lov ("laws of Jutland") from 1241, and Skånske Lov ("laws of Skåne")from 1202.

He probably mean European Union Directives or Regulations. Or perhaps European Convention for Human Rights and the jurisprudence based on this. Still nothing in any of this precludes a provision that medical personnel in certain cases have the right and sometimes the obligation to offer information to the authorities.

I don't know from where Daotec is, but he is dead wrong in this regard

Also: Proffff thank you for that information

 

[Anonymous]

the enemy still asleep might start reading here Barrus ... but you'll get the message soon enough, if it's not already spreading.

That is asking me to " soufflé", in "naïveté" the enemy, who is still sleeping on one ear.

Are you Eric Cantona.. Im expecting cryptic messages about seagulls next. I really am very very confused.

 

[DAOTEC]

close encounter

im not even sure I know what point is being made here anymore

That is exactly what these illegal pocketing criminal infidels like WADA, UCI, CAS, TAS etc. do al the time, with these illiterate cyclists (athletes), and at the end make you agree ending up with 1 year out and ruined for life like Berto ... with them having a party from ur money on your grave shuffing champagne and Kaviaar in a Swiss el dorado.

He probably mean European Union Directives or Regulations. Or perhaps European Convention for Human Rights and the jurisprudence based on this. Still nothing in any of this precludes a provision that medical personnel in certain cases have the right and sometimes the obligation to offer information to the authorities.

I don't know from where Daotec is, but he is dead wrong in this regard

'certain cases' 'sometimes': That sounds a litt diff, say less of a firm statement isn't it ...

'information to the authorities': But again this only applies to National law, and still depends on the nature of it, the state of mind it was presented by, to whoom, in what context and above all in this case denied afterwards ...

I don't know from where Daotec is,

you will soon find out ...

but he is dead wrong in this regard

no he is not, you simply don't know what your rights are, and live by the rules imposed by the winners from yesterday.

 

[Der_Gestreifte]

More or less: Without a talking docor > "No Case" ... if the Cobra sticks it out and contacts the right people he will win, and en passant take in quite generous retirement money ...

I wouldn´t be too sure about that.
I don´t know about italian law, but e.g. here in Germany it is explicitly regulated how and by whom blood (and blood products) need to be handled.
I´d be very surprised if this would be against some "European Law" (whatever you mean by that). And obviously someone screwed up the handling of Ricco´s blood, so that _would_ have been a crime - no need for any doping related legislation to enter the game.

As for the doctor informing the authorities: he doesn´t know it´s Riccos own blood, only sees a guy with messed up blood values. When he gets someone with a bullet in his guts, he doesn´t know he shot himself.
He could assume they both did it themselves as one is an infamous pro cyclist and the other a well known depressive policeman.
Yet he _will_ inform the authorities in both cases.

 

[profff]

@barrus

sorry for the typing mistakes in my post, but , believe me , in italy the law is like that.
a doctor has duties stated by the law especially if he is working in an emergency department of a public hospital .
it is compulsory for a physician to issue a medical report that is sent to the police when he come across a case in which a patient is in danger of life because violence and illegal acts, motor vehicles accidents and accidents at work included.
both autologous transfusions and doping are illegal acts according to the italian law and ricco was in danger of life.
there are strict rules in italy for blood transfusions and doping is prosecuted by the law.

 

[Martin318is]

no he is not, you simply don't know what your rights are, and live by the rules imposed by the winners from yesterday.

So provide the link to the relevant documentation like Barrus asked. So far I haven't seen anything in what you have said that actually confirms your opinion is correct. You are reinforcing your opinion with more of your opinion.

 

[DAOTEC]

Pro bono

You are reinforcing your opinion with more of your opinion.

That's what you mods also are very good at !

So provide the link to the relevant documentation like Barrus asked. So far I haven't seen anything in what you have said that actually confirms your opinion is correct.

Playing good cop bad cop hmmm it's getting symantic ...

My grandmother always used to say: "There is a fine line between what you need to know and what you want to know, but all there is to know is 'Opus Dei'

 

[Anonymous]

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If jeg tausche mes linguas często genoeg, then het volk forstår ana ikke y pensare, Я sou mucho klug. Rifletti!

Beaucoup emoticons.