Ricco

[Ferminal]

I'd be more interested in knowing who used it in 2007.

 

[thehog]

I'd be more interested in knowing who used it in 2007.

There's talk Contador was positive for CERA at the Giro in 08.

Judging what he and chicken did in the 07 Tour I'd say it wasn't just transfusions. You can't jump like that on blood alone.

But he was protected as Bruyneel was still a force back then.

 

[Ferminal]

If he was using it in the Giro I doubt he would have been trolled by Sella and Ricco. That is his least impressive win, even moreso than the 2010 Tour.

 

[staubsauger]

Even Bruyneel was big suprised that Contador even was able to follow Ricco in the mountains during that Giro. Originally Klöden was the planned leader as Contador was out of shape and sheduled for a beach holiday, so I was and I'm still pretty sure he was on Cera to hel out his recovery.

Still Ricco and Sella were on top peak and Sella on top juice. And if you rewatch some mountain stages, Ricco also wasn't that impressive at all. He just did some last 2k attacks. There were no agressive attacks from far way out in the favourite group, ecept that one move from Di Luca. So that favoured Contador a lot. Still I don't see him winning that Giro, without Sella losing 12 minutes due to his crash. He was in his own league that Giro.

I'm pretty sure Contador got covered up that Giro. Maybe it would have been too much names and that's the reason why they forced Simon to retire in 2009/2010 and why they finally got Pellizotti and Contador in 2010? Who knows ....

Sastre is obviously one of the names Ricco is talking about. But the Tour needed a real winner again, aftr the Landis and Rasmussen fiascos.

 

[Gregga]

I'd be more interested in knowing who used it in 2007.

Not Rasmussen, it was DynEPO
Judging by the results of the Giro that year, it was pretty obvious Di Luca, Ricco, Piepoli and Simoni had something the other were missing (Garzelli, Cunego)

In the Tour I don't know, maybe Contador, but behind him and chicken, the others were more believable than in the Giro

Ricco told a french magazine (l'acheteur cycliste) a year ago that a dozen of riders were positive for CERA (not 48), and a french guy among them (Moreau ? I would love that)

 

[Le breton]

…...
Ricco told a french magazine (l'acheteur cycliste) a year ago that a dozen of riders were positive for CERA (not 48), and a french guy among them (Moreau ? I would love that)

Moreau?
Me too

 

[blackcat]

Moreau?
Me too

guys who performed well that year are Van deVelde, Kim Kirchen.

The UCI decides to take down Piepoli and Ricco but not retest Giro samples.

Saunier Duval an easy mark.

also, Gerdeman, Tony Martin, Soler.

 

[Ferminal]

Not Rasmussen, it was DynEPO
Judging by the results of the Giro that year, it was pretty obvious Di Luca, Ricco, Piepoli and Simoni had something the other were missing (Garzelli, Cunego)

In the Tour I don't know, maybe Contador, but behind him and chicken, the others were more believable than in the Giro

Ricco told a french magazine (l'acheteur cycliste) a year ago that a dozen of riders were positive for CERA (not 48), and a french guy among them (Moreau ? I would love that)

Yeh, was Dynepo already detectable in 2007?

Anyway my angle is Contador. Their Plateau de Beille time was not much slower than Pantani's (Burrow's!) record. In 2008 Contador's time to Pampeago is I guess the slowest by a Giro winner in the modern era. My guess is that he either lost something previously available to him, or he had no blood bags ready due to the late call up/being scared by the ABP. Normal order was presumably restored for the Vuelta.

 

[blackcat]

They caught way too few people in 2008. This stuff had been used for several years and everyone thought it was undetectable. It makes no sense that only a handful of riders were using it.

There was that persistent rumor that nearly the entire CSC squad tested positive for it.

and High Road?

there was one other team that the majority of riders. makes sense. tony martin was flying, and so was gerdeman. both looked GT riders in the making.

 

[Ferminal]

Tony Martin = Grabsch?

 

[blackcat]

Tony Martin = Grabsch?

what you mean Willis?

yeah, Grabsch won worlds tt. cant remember what else he did. he always did breakaways in july.

but Tony Martin was going over the mjr mtns in the queen stage either in breakaways, or in the yellow group. climbing phenomenally. gerdemann takes yellow in the fist/second week. they were flying

 

[Ferminal]

Gerdemann wore Yellow in 2007. Martin I don't remember at all, but he has been progressively good since turning pro. If he was abusing CERA to the max he certainly found some good stuff since then to reach the level he has.

Certainly doesn't stand out as much as say a Löfkvist or Kirchen.

 

[BroDeal]

Markus Fothen. His results stop after Tour de Suisse 2008.

 

[Gregga]

Yeh, was Dynepo already detectable in 2007?

Sept. 2007, but the positive threshold was not clear for WADA at that time so he could not be banned

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=3040786

 

[staubsauger]

Yeah Fothen is a good bet. Was Fothen close to Schumacher and Davide? Because he should've been a user of Cera since 2005 in that case, just like Di Luca. I doubt Lövkvist, because with Cera he wouldn't have had his recovery problems. Gerdemann was injured most of 2008. I doubt he really was on Cera, otherwise he would've been even more overrated as a talent as we all thought already. His perfomance decrease at Milram surely could be related to the fact that Milram had no professional preperation program what do you think?

Vandevelde was on a normal blood bag program I think. I don't believe Vaughters was taking the risk to let his riders take a new sort of Epo that might get detectable soon.

Soler should be a good guess, too. His blood values were called very suspicious in 2007, while even Rasmussen values weren't called that. Also Corti has a link to Santuccione for sure, did he? And Soler never was able to climb like that again. And that can't just be related to all his crashes. In fact at the Giro 2009 I remember he peaked for the gc and his crash wasn't that hard at all, but he was pack fooder and even loosed seconds on every hill.

What about Kasheshkin? He's nowhere near his old level. In fact he has declined even more than Sella. And I doubt Astana don't give him anything anymore. Also his improve in 2006 after his transfer to Astana was a big boost. Maybe it was due to the step from riding just on a little own stuff at clean Credit Agricole to getting professional team preperation and Cera at Astana?

Could Rujano and Parra have been on Cera at the Giro 2005? Savio has a good dealer and he seems to use the right stuff at the right moment. Of course he is also a good mentor. And Rujano is a very good climber. But it doesn't look impossible to me that he had some special recovery help that year. Also Parra was nothing before and not much after that Giro, compared to his big name.

Il falco is a good bet. Suddenly came back from nothing in 2005 where he took benefits from his itt, his downhill and his solid recovery. When more and more guys began to use Cera from 2006 on, he even lost his captain position to Astana to Mazzoleni. Mazzoleni the friend of Santuccione and lover of Basso's sister.

Maybe Ivan Basso's improvement at CSC in climbing and his massive boost at tt'ing could be related to Bjarne and Fuentes, but his outstanding Robot Giro is realated to some Cera he got from his sister via Santuccione? In that case he maybe never lied when he told he just planned to use the blood bags? He won the Giro on a turbo Cera program. So he didn't waste much energy there. At the Tour he planned to peak with conservative blood bag therapy. But he would still easily have been able to beat Ullrich, because on Cera the Giro in his legs wouldn't affect him at all. Remeber Basso was pretty sure he will be able to handle the double without a doubt!

 

[del1962]

Could someone explain how Ricco would have knowledge of these 48 tests without it having come out through another source

If Ricco really wan't to be relevent he should do what FLandis did, a full story of his drug story.

 

[Billie]

Il falco is a good bet. Suddenly came back from nothing in 2005 where he took benefits from his itt, his downhill and his solid recovery. When more and more guys began to use Cera from 2006 on, he even lost his captain position to Astana to Mazzoleni. Mazzoleni the friend of Santuccione and lover of Basso's sister.

Highly unlikely. Il falco completely sucked in 2003-2004 because he crashed into a motorcycle on the first teamcamp. He didn't sleep for 8 days. He had to have his face restructured, still can't smile. After he finally recovered, he broke his collarbone and started feeling bad cause Telekom were paying him big buck but he couldn't race.

More likely he was on an us postal program. Armstrong visited him during that Giro and they called regularly, almost every day.

Don't see Savoldelli as a Cera user.

 

[Miburo]

Gerdeman was getting ripped apart though after his yellow jersey in that tour.

His last good result is (iirc) winning the last tour of germany against the likes of brajkovic in 2008.

Ricco just wants attention. Show me the feats...Ricco doesn't want to help cycling, if he has the names he'll only reveal it in his own benefit. If he has it he's just saying this to make some riders look scared and possibly get some money out of it.

He'll never reveal it if he has it and that's btw A BIG IF.

 

[spalco]

You guys make it sound like CERA is some kind of super-epo, but reading the description on wikipedia I can't find what makes it so special compared to other variants other than lasting longer (which might mean it's detectable longer too?).

Or are you saying that other riders stopped using EPO during that time because of fear of getting tested?

 

[staubsauger]

You guys make it sound like CERA is some kind of super-epo, but reading the description on wikipedia I can't find what makes it so special compared to other variants other than lasting longer (which might mean it's detectable longer too?).

Or are you saying that other riders stopped using EPO during that time because of fear of getting tested?

Search for Emanuele Sella at Youtube and watch the worldcyclingarchives videos and you'll know why

 

[Mr.38%]

Gerdeman was getting ripped apart though after his yellow jersey in that tour.

His last good result is (iirc) winning the last tour of germany against the likes of brajkovic in 2008.

Old team mates from Akud consider him clean although nobody is 100% sure of course.

You guys make it sound like CERA is some kind of super-epo, but reading the description on wikipedia I can't find what makes it so special compared to other variants other than lasting longer (which might mean it's detectable longer too?).

Or are you saying that other riders stopped using EPO during that time because of fear of getting tested?

CERA has a longer half life than α, β, Darbo et al. Other than that it's just EPO without any special qualities.

 

[Gregga]

You guys make it sound like CERA is some kind of super-epo, but reading the description on wikipedia I can't find what makes it so special compared to other variants other than lasting longer (which might mean it's detectable longer too?).

Or are you saying that other riders stopped using EPO during that time because of fear of getting tested?

CERA stimulates your red cells production all the time you've got it in your bloodstream, in 2007-2008 it was much more effective than "normal" EPO that could only be used by microdoses at night... until it was detected...

 

[Mr.38%]

CERA stimulates your red cells production all the time you've got it in your bloodstream, in 2007-2008 it was much more effective than "normal" EPO that could only be used by microdoses at night... until it was detected...

If it was so much more effective, your blood values would have exploded. Hb is Hb and Hb mass is Hb mass.

Edit: Read Roche's Mircera enclosed label

 

[The Hitch]

Could someone explain how Ricco would have knowledge of these 48 tests without it having come out through another source

If Ricco really wan't to be relevent he should do what FLandis did, a full story of his drug story.

Unfortunately those considering doing a Landis may be discouraged by the fact that hardcore omerta defenders like wiggins went after Landis despite the fact that they knew he was telling the truth.

 

[Ferminal]

You guys make it sound like CERA is some kind of super-epo, but reading the description on wikipedia I can't find what makes it so special compared to other variants other than lasting longer (which might mean it's detectable longer too?).

Or are you saying that other riders stopped using EPO during that time because of fear of getting tested?

Nah it just allowed you to dope to Armstrong 1999 levels until it became detectable (provided you didn't blow an off-score/50%).