Richie makes his Clinic debut...

[sublimit]

Not too many Danes in total, but then there aren't that many riders compared to the bigger cycling nations to start with.
Of the riders in the 90s: Skibby admitted to something like 11 years dope in a book - he rode for TVM, a team name that rings a bell? Brian Holm admitted to being on EPO in 96 when he helped Riis at the Tour. Rolf Sorensen steadily denies, although he's on the Conconi list of "amateurs" and there's a doctor testifying that "he took a lot, but not nearly as much as some other riders did".
Hitch mentions Michael Rasmussen. He's never tested positive, but in addition to playing hide'n'seek an being bad at geography there are stories of smuggled dope, the Austrian flat with the blood machine for rent and comments that his departure from csc in 2001 was due to personality as well as abnormal blood values.
Heard of a guy called Kim Andersen? Although he prob never played with epo, but none the less.
A long list of other (90s) riders connected to a belgian dope doctor was published in 99 - although it's obviously a stretch to say they all doped based on that alone.
The head of DCU, the danish cycling union, is an ex-doper as well.
I can go on - just let me know when to stop...

FWIW, though, I do believe that the current stable of Danish riders are clean - why? Because I actually believe in what Porte et al says...

As for the Brits I don't know too much, but am happy to believe Wiggins is clean an don't doubt it for a second when it comes to Dan Lloyd and Cav...



I was wondering the same thing, but I guess it doesn't need explaining when it's so obvious

Its Ok i was just winding up The Youngest.. but its clear you know more about Danish cycling than me. That could rival Spain looking at that.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Do enlighten us.what Peds did Hayles and Millar test positive for?

Huh? You don't need a positive test, when you admit to taking EPO.
That's the definitive positive.

Here's hoping that we'll soon have a British or Australian positive, so this bull**** about clean nations will be over.

Not sure that would help Pat's drive to globalize the sport.

 

[BroDeal]

Cuddles may or may not be clean, it's a crapshoot. I do not feel comfortable saying with any degree of certainty that he's clean, but I don't feel comfortable saying he's definitely dirty either, because his team associations are all I have against him (not to mention that it's possible he could be like Cunego and have been dirty at one point but now be clean or vice versa).

If Evans is clean then he has to be about the dumbest mofo on the planet. With just some moderate doping he would have four or five GT wins right now, including two TdFs.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Atleast Cuddles declines in GT's.

Looking at the performance, it turns out that Evans was 1.26% slower than Shumacher in the first, 29km time-trial, and fell to 3.26% slower in the final time-trial. Sastre, on the other hand, was 4.8% slower than Shumacher in TT1 and improved to 4.02% slower in TT2. Sastre was therefore better in TT2 (relative to Shumacher), but not by a huge amount, whereas Evans was considerably worse. Bernard Kohl, who surprised all with his final time-trial (including us), improved from 5% slower to 3.7% slower.

There are of course important considerations here, like the fact that the second time-trial, being hillier and longer, might favour guys like Sastre and Kohl, but it's interesting to note that if Evans had even kept the same gap between himself and Shumacher (1.26%), then he would have beaten Sastre by 1:44 and claimed yellow...but it wasn't so much the spectacular time-trialling of Sastre that held the yellow, it was a combination of his moderate improvement and Evans' fatigue after three weeks of hard racing that may have denied him yellow. If we could just get the power data...but thanks Wayne for that insight!

Without having any data to back this up with, I'm quite sure it was the same story in the Tour -07 and Giro -09. Evans is arguably the most believable GT contender, which might not be saying much...

If Evans is clean then he has to be about the dumbest mofo on the planet. With just some moderate doping he would have four or five GT wins right now, including two TdFs.

IF Evans is clean he's a terrific sportsman with strong integrity.

In reverse order

2 By everyone else i meant the top guys, not literaly everyone. Cancellara Millar Rogers Martin and Porte. Maybe one or two others. Velits for example clearly wasnt doped

1 Because i feel all the top guys dope (see post 11). In all sports. Im not saying their all Pantaning it on epo but some sort of drugs. Cancellara is very suspicious, Millar got caught and a lot suspect hes still up to it and Dodger has links to Ferrari. THat leaves Porte and Martin. Its the world championships. I think that (as in many sports not just cycling) they had to take it just to compete. Their results were certainatly suspiciously good.

Rogers having worked with Ferrari in the past doesn't necessarily mean he's still doping. Consider that he won the worlds 3 times when receiving "training plans" from Dr. F but was 4.2% (in time) behind Spartacus in that race.

 

[hrotha]

I think there's a real risk of "Well at least we're not Spain!" becoming a convenient thought to refuse to explore doping in other countries further. Sort of like "The French don't dope" could lead to a relaxation of anti-doping practices in France. Even though virtually all notable Danes from the 90s have been brought up as implicated with doping...

 

[D-Queued]

I think there's a real risk of "Well at least we're not Spain!" becoming a convenient thought to refuse to explore doping in other countries further. Sort of like "The French don't dope" could lead to a relaxation of anti-doping practices in France. Even though virtually all notable Danes from the 90s have been brought up as implicated with doping...

You likely recall that McQuaid has already pointed out that the only doping problems in cycling are from those Southern European countries.

That's why they can rationalise doping so easily." Such "cocoons," added McQuaid, seem to have been largely eliminated from the French and German teams, but they remain in certain Spanish teams, and, perhaps, one or two Italian teams

Dave.

 

[roundabout]

Far be it from me to defend McQuaid but honestly it would be much better for cycling if all teams doped as much/little as the French and post-Gerolsteiner German teams.

 

[bobbins]

Huh? You don't need a positive test, when you admit to taking EPO.
That's the definitive positive.



Not sure that would help Pat's drive to globalize the sport.

When did Hayles test positive?

An admission is a definite positive, what is a denial?

 

[Addicted]

If Evans is clean then he has to be about the dumbest mofo on the planet. With just some moderate doping he would have four or five GT wins right now, including two TdFs.

You must be joking right?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

When did Hayles test positive?

An admission is a definite positive, what is a denial?

50.3% hematocrit, March 2008.

 

[Hugh Januss]

50.3% hematocrit, March 2008.

That's not doping, that's just good genetics.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Do enlighten us.what Peds did Hayles and Millar test positive for?

When did Hayles test positive?

An admission is a definite positive, what is a denial?

'Libertine Seguros' did not write that either Millar or Hayles were 'positive'.

But if it's just semantics that people are interested in then an admission to doping is not a positive - it's an admission to doping.

History does not support Portes point that Australia, Britain or Denmark may be cleaner.

 

[roundabout]

How many Australian, British and Danish riders are currently suspended relative to the number of Italians and Spaniards?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

How many Australian, British and Danish riders are currently suspended relative to the number of Italians and Spaniards?

I don't know, how many?

 

[Barrus]

How many Australian, British and Danish riders are currently suspended relative to the number of Italians and Spaniards?

Please if you come up with such a number than also include the percentage of dopers of the number of pros of those countries. I think that in that case the relative numbers won't be that far off. ALthough currently there are not many Australian, British or Danish riders suspended this should not mean that they are not doping, it could even be said that the Italian and Spanish authorities do more against doping hence more riders get caught. Simple numbers won't be enough to substantiate the argument of eithers side. Only to disprove such statements as that people from certain countries do not dope. The information that is available solely is enough to prove or disprove such blanket statements and not to substantiate an argument that people from certain states dope more than people from other states. To suggest otherwise is a completely biased and frankly quite naive viewpoint

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That's not doping, that's just good genetics.

Damiano Cunego has a certificate cos of his genetic high hct, because generations of his family have lived at altitude. Rob Hayles is from Portsmouth, which is a city reaching a high point at the mind-blowing altitude of 7m above sea level.

How many Australian, British and Danish riders are currently suspended relative to the number of Italians and Spaniards?

How many Italians and Spaniards are there in the pro péloton relative to the number of Australian, British and Danish riders?

In 2009, 1/6 of all the Britons in the ProTour had admitted to using EPO. Look, I can take a fact and make it misleading too!

 

[zapata]

I don't really know what Denmark are doing on this "clean country" list. They have some of the worst dopers in history, like Bjarne Riis, Michael Rasmussen and Kim Andersen. I don't particularly trust guys like Matti Breschel either.

Breschel and Nicki Sørensen were clients of Luigi Cecchini at least in 2006. Maybe only for training schemes and legitimate coaching, maybe not.

 

[nobilis]

I don't know, how many?

Well, if you want numbers, i had some fun using data from the cqranking database. I know the figures might not be accurate and subject to many assumptions but they can used as proxy indicators and as a snapshot or cross-sectional view of the current situation. I included in the numerator the riders who are suspended or provisionally suspended (like Contador and Pellizotti) and in the denominator all active riders present in the cqranking database plus the suspended riders.

 

[theyoungest]

David Millar, Rob Hayles, Mark Roland, Stephen Hines...

I wasn't talking about the days of yore, but about the new generation, which is what Porte refers to as well (at least I hope so, for his sake).

 

[D-Queued]

Well, if you want numbers, i had some fun using data from the cqranking database. I know the figures might not be accurate and subject to many assumptions but they can used as proxy indicators and as a snapshot or cross-sectional view of the current situation. I included in the numerator the riders who are suspended or provisionally suspended (like Contador and Pellizotti) and in the denominator all active riders present in the cqranking database plus the suspended riders.

Canada must be the cleanest country of all.

Dave.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well, if you want numbers, i had some fun using data from the cqranking database. I know the figures might not be accurate and subject to many assumptions but they can used as proxy indicators and as a snapshot or cross-sectional view of the current situation. I included in the numerator the riders who are suspended or provisionally suspended (like Contador and Pellizotti) and in the denominator all active riders present in the cqranking database plus the suspended riders.

Well straight of the top of my head Dan Staite a UK rider was done recently for EPO - (as his case was discussed here) - so the your stats are far from complete.

 

[lanternrouge]

Well straight of the top of my head Dan Staite a UK rider was done recently for EPO - (as his case was discussed here) - so the your stats are far from complete.

An amateur.

 

[bobbins]

Huh? You don't need a positive test, when you admit to taking EPO.
That's the definitive positive.



Not sure that would help Pat's drive to globalize the sport.

'Libertine Seguros' did not write that either Millar or Hayles were 'positive'.

But if it's just semantics that people are interested in then an admission to doping is not a positive - it's an admission to doping.

History does not support Portes point that Australia, Britain or Denmark may be cleaner.

He certainly suggested they had. A high hct is only an indicator, Hayles might have hit 50.3 but had no positive tests. Plenty of people could hit that by altitude training.

 

[nobilis]

Well straight of the top of my head Dan Staite a UK rider was done recently for EPO - (as his case was discussed here) - so the your stats are far from complete.

I never claimed that these stats are complete. All i did is use the data from cqranking, which apparently, are not always providing us with valid info.

 

[nobilis]

An amateur.

Ok that makes more sense.