Richie Porte Discussion Thread.

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In which year will Porte win the GT Treble?

  • He will only manage the double

    Votes: 3 100.0%

  • Total voters
    3
Tonton said:
Porte seems to have a higher ceiling than Pinot, Bardet, Uran, Landa, Aru, even today's Nibali and maybe Quintana...on paper. He can TT with the best. and he can climb. And he has a better team than most. His failures may be getting to his head, and then (sh)it happens. The predicament, the curse. It's in his head.
Good post. Porte has 2 issues.One is the Pressure from the Australian cycling community and the public to ride the TDF. I fear for him in week one of the 2018 TDF. I am strong in my belief that he is more suited to the Giro which is a more straightforward race with sprinter stages, mountain stages and often longer ITTs. His second issue is he has never shown the ability to ride two Gts in a season which reduces his options.

He will also be the chosen son to ride the 2018 Worlds, yet has never shown much ability in one day races.

Actually Porte and Landa are the two best pure climbers in the peleton.
 
yaco said:
Tonton said:
Porte seems to have a higher ceiling than Pinot, Bardet, Uran, Landa, Aru, even today's Nibali and maybe Quintana...on paper. He can TT with the best. and he can climb. And he has a better team than most. His failures may be getting to his head, and then (sh)it happens. The predicament, the curse. It's in his head.
Good post. Porte has 2 issues.One is the Pressure from the Australian cycling community and the public to ride the TDF. I fear for him in week one of the 2018 TDF. I am strong in my belief that he is more suited to the Giro which is a more straightforward race with sprinter stages, mountain stages and often longer ITTs. His second issue is he has never shown the ability to ride two Gts in a season which reduces his options.

He will also be the chosen son to ride the 2018 Worlds, yet has never shown much ability in one day races.

Actually Porte and Landa are the two best pure climbers in the peleton.
Porte is an excellent climber but am not certain that he fits the mould of a pure climber.

His TT is erratic. On his good days, and on favourable terrain, he can compete with the specialists but when the pressure is on; he tends to "fold"/under-perform. By no means (despite the proclamations of certain AUS media), can he be described as a specialist in this discipline.

Where I do find some agreement is with regards to his mental game and his capacity to handle pressure. THIS is probably the key component that prevents him from being a real GT contender rather than just an excellent 1 week racer/super-domestique.
 
dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
Tonton said:
Porte seems to have a higher ceiling than Pinot, Bardet, Uran, Landa, Aru, even today's Nibali and maybe Quintana...on paper. He can TT with the best. and he can climb. And he has a better team than most. His failures may be getting to his head, and then (sh)it happens. The predicament, the curse. It's in his head.
Good post. Porte has 2 issues.One is the Pressure from the Australian cycling community and the public to ride the TDF. I fear for him in week one of the 2018 TDF. I am strong in my belief that he is more suited to the Giro which is a more straightforward race with sprinter stages, mountain stages and often longer ITTs. His second issue is he has never shown the ability to ride two Gts in a season which reduces his options.

He will also be the chosen son to ride the 2018 Worlds, yet has never shown much ability in one day races.

Actually Porte and Landa are the two best pure climbers in the peleton.
Porte is an excellent climber but am not certain that he fits the mould of a pure climber.

His TT is erratic. On his good days, and on favourable terrain, he can compete with the specialists but when the pressure is on; he tends to "fold"/under-perform. By no means (despite the proclamations of certain AUS media), can he be described as a specialist in this discipline.

Where I do find some agreement is with regards to his mental game and his capacity to handle pressure. THIS is probably the key component that prevents him from being a real GT contender rather than just an excellent 1 week racer/super-domestique.
For me best pure climbers in the peloton remain Quintana and I would add Lopez (somewhat in the making)

I do think Porte is an all round rider of top ability with a great TT and great ability to fly up climbs and as of 2017 is a better rider than Landa

But agree that both lack something when it comes to the overall GT win....maybe killer instinct, maybe self belief, maybe coolness under pressure
And this is what sperates champions from podium contenders
 
dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
Tonton said:
Porte seems to have a higher ceiling than Pinot, Bardet, Uran, Landa, Aru, even today's Nibali and maybe Quintana...on paper. He can TT with the best. and he can climb. And he has a better team than most. His failures may be getting to his head, and then (sh)it happens. The predicament, the curse. It's in his head.
Good post. Porte has 2 issues.One is the Pressure from the Australian cycling community and the public to ride the TDF. I fear for him in week one of the 2018 TDF. I am strong in my belief that he is more suited to the Giro which is a more straightforward race with sprinter stages, mountain stages and often longer ITTs. His second issue is he has never shown the ability to ride two Gts in a season which reduces his options.

He will also be the chosen son to ride the 2018 Worlds, yet has never shown much ability in one day races.

Actually Porte and Landa are the two best pure climbers in the peleton.
Porte is an excellent climber but am not certain that he fits the mould of a pure climber.

His TT is erratic. On his good days, and on favourable terrain, he can compete with the specialists but when the pressure is on; he tends to "fold"/under-perform. By no means (despite the proclamations of certain AUS media), can he be described as a specialist in this discipline.

Where I do find some agreement is with regards to his mental game and his capacity to handle pressure. THIS is probably the key component that prevents him from being a real GT contender rather than just an excellent 1 week racer/super-domestique.
Trouble is that option two is TJVG who is even worse in the psychology dept and feeling pressured and with him as has been seen before when he starts to slide it's often total collapse. In the Giro when he dropped 40 minutes and the pressure was off and he started stage hunting, he rode much better and picked up a stage. I sometimes think that that the trouble with Porte isn't so much pressure but not having a great cycling brain. The descent he crashed on in the Tour was ridden by Porte in the Dauphine where he backed off and rode at his own pace which was all he had to do. Interestingly the bend he crashed on was where he went wide in the Dauphine so he knew that was a bad part of the descent. He simply isn't a really good descender not on technical descents anyway so why not ride to the conditions and know your limitations. All that preparation gone in a split second and it could have been avoided. As for pressure from the Australian public I think that's overblown as he's not a high profile athlete at all and the cycling fraternity in Australia is quite small. Some of the SBS journalists need to reign in their enthusiasm but I suppose since Evans won, any Australian contenders even ones that have never podiumed are going to receive a certain amount of hype. Bobridge and Meyer copped the same at a young age and it simply never happened for them. I think Matthews has probably had to cope with as much hype as Porte probably more with most of his career with an Australian team up until now.
 
I beg to differ about Porte' s profile in Oz. So many of the non cycling journalists ask about Porte and the TDF and when he will join Orica. Porte is by far the biggest cycling name in the non cycling media. Ewan would be second and A big gap to Matthews.
 
Re:

yaco said:
I beg to differ about Porte' s profile in Oz. So many of the non cycling journalists ask about Porte and the TDF and when he will join Orica. Porte is by far the biggest cycling name in the non cycling media. Ewan would be second and A big gap to Matthews.
Not saying Matthews is a bigger name just that he is under just as much pressure as Porte and he has had quite a few podiums now in good races but can't crack the win in a classic or at the Worlds. That said I think Matthews is close to breaking through. 2018 could be the year. As for Porte who knows but realistically he probably only has two more chances at the Tour or any other GT. And 2017 will be seen as another wasted opportunity considering his form leading into the race.
 
I have to admit I am in two minds about Tejay going to the Tour to support Richie. I think he would be motivated more by doing what he did in the Giro last year. Ride for GC and if the wheels fall off, look for a stage win. TJVG doesn't usually last long on the MTFs anymore not with the best riders so he would only be selected for the TTT and maybe medium mountain stages. I think I would rather see a domestique in his place who will give 100% for the team even if it's on the flat stages and medium ones. Tejay seems to do better when he has his own objectives. BMC don't have a good mountain squad and including Tejay isn't going to improve that and with only eight riders now I'm not sure TJVG is the answer for three weeks of solid team support.
 
TJVG's objective for the last Giro was top-5, I guess. The consolation prize was a stage win.

So, he can't achieve his goals, only his consolation prizes. There's really no point in building a team around a rider like TJVG, who happens to not be able to perform according to his goals for several years. What could the motivation be for his team to work for him?
 
I will wait and see with TVG - He's finally realised after 5+ years that's a good idea to bring his family to Europe to live during the season - This may improve his performance - Porte will need TVG at the TDF because outside of Caruso he has little help - I have no idea why BMC bring GVA to the TDF, seeing he has won two stages in his last four appearances, so it's not like he always 2 stages in each TDF - I'll cry if BMC bring Gerrans who can't stay on his bike in GT's as five DNF's in the last 7 GT's testifies - BMC needs to pick a smart and versatile team for the TDF - Something like

Porte
TVG
Caruso
Wyss
Ventoso
Kung
Schar

Then your 8th position depends on whether you go for mountain support or flat lands support, so you go for either De Marchi or J P Drucker.

BMC and Porte need to decide how serious is their attempt at the TDF - Evans chose a team in 20111 that were solely devoted to his cause - Enough said.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Valv.Piti said:
I really can't see Porte winning on this route, but lets see...
I can't see Porte win on any route
Heh. I was high on him going into this year's Tour de France, but he was never going to win anyways since he didn't do anything on Belles Filles. With cobbles, a team time trial and mountain stages that doesn't really scream Lil Rich I don't really think he can do anything other than a top-3 at the absolute best, probably around 5th.
 
Jun 30, 2014
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lenric said:
TJVG's objective for the last Giro was top-5, I guess. The consolation prize was a stage win.

So, he can't achieve his goals, only his consolation prizes. There's really no point in building a team around a rider like TJVG, who happens to not be able to perform according to his goals for several years. What could the motivation be for his team to work for him?
He can give you good results in the one week races that Porte isn't racing and he can go for stage wins in gts, he's not a great gc contender in a gt, but itt's not like he doesn't gett any results.
Maybe they are overpaying him, but that's another story.
 
Re:

movingtarget said:
I have to admit I am in two minds about Tejay going to the Tour to support Richie. I think he would be motivated more by doing what he did in the Giro last year. Ride for GC and if the wheels fall off, look for a stage win. TJVG doesn't usually last long on the MTFs anymore not with the best riders so he would only be selected for the TTT and maybe medium mountain stages. I think I would rather see a domestique in his place who will give 100% for the team even if it's on the flat stages and medium ones. Tejay seems to do better when he has his own objectives. BMC don't have a good mountain squad and including Tejay isn't going to improve that and with only eight riders now I'm not sure TJVG is the answer for three weeks of solid team support.
If his problem is more mental then he can improve in the mountains and be a good domestique for Porte IMHO.
 
Aug 1, 2016
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2,860
Re:

yaco said:
I will wait and see with TVG - He's finally realised after 5+ years that's a good idea to bring his family to Europe to live during the season - This may improve his performance - Porte will need TVG at the TDF because outside of Caruso he has little help - I have no idea why BMC bring GVA to the TDF, seeing he has won two stages in his last four appearances, so it's not like he always 2 stages in each TDF - I'll cry if BMC bring Gerrans who can't stay on his bike in GT's as five DNF's in the last 7 GT's testifies - BMC needs to pick a smart and versatile team for the TDF - Something like

Porte
TVG
Caruso
Wyss
Ventoso
Kung
Schar

Then your 8th position depends on whether you go for mountain support or flat lands support, so you go for either De Marchi or J P Drucker.

BMC and Porte need to decide how serious is their attempt at the TDF - Evans chose a team in 20111 that were solely devoted to his cause - Enough said.
No way Ventoso is going to TDF. I would send Roche instead of him and trust Bettiol for the 8th spot (kind of an all rounder)
 
Re:

Alexandre B. said:
I just can't see GVA out of the Tour team, as he is their best chance to win a stage (and some of them are really good for him).

Tour team

Porte
Tj
Caruso
Gerrans
Kung
Van Avermaet
Dennis
Schar


This tema is for TTT and for cobbles

I would bring Tuens and Roche but dont think they are going to the Tour
 
Re: Re:

Mayomaniac said:
lenric said:
TJVG's objective for the last Giro was top-5, I guess. The consolation prize was a stage win.

So, he can't achieve his goals, only his consolation prizes. There's really no point in building a team around a rider like TJVG, who happens to not be able to perform according to his goals for several years. What could the motivation be for his team to work for him?
He can give you good results in the one week races that Porte isn't racing and he can go for stage wins in gts, he's not a great gc contender in a gt, but itt's not like he doesn't gett any results.
Maybe they are overpaying him, but that's another story.
I won't disagree with you regarding one week races, though I'd be surprised if he managed to win any 1 week race... at least, when looking at his resume. But he could definitely achieve podiums.

However, I was speaking about GTs. It's really hard to motivate 7 guys to work for 1 guy who, somehow, can't achieve his goals in GTs.

BMC is a team with a nice budget, they should dump TJVG next year and hire a better all rounder. I bet they can afford a guy like Bardet.
 
Re:

yaco said:
Porte should be riding the Giro - It's the most predictable in terms of route for any of the 3 GT's which best suit his characteristics.
I think you make a good point but the marquee GT rider for each team usually does the biggest race in the world : the Tour. But it sounds like BMC won't be around for much longer unless they find some sponsors so all the talk about the future may be academic. Porte probably only has two more shots at the Tour and if BMC don't continue, which teams would pay Porte or TJVG ? GVA would be much easier to place. Or would Richie go and ride for Aru or Dumoulin ? No doubt about him as a quality domestique and he would probably still be given opportunities in shorter races but like Evans, Richie has the Tour fever at least for the short term. The difference is that Evans came close twice before and he and his team were always confident he could win it. Even the BMC management now is saying that are aiming for the podium. The past two years they said they were aiming for the win !
 
Re: Re:

Roku said:
yaco said:
I will wait and see with TVG - He's finally realised after 5+ years that's a good idea to bring his family to Europe to live during the season - This may improve his performance - Porte will need TVG at the TDF because outside of Caruso he has little help - I have no idea why BMC bring GVA to the TDF, seeing he has won two stages in his last four appearances, so it's not like he always 2 stages in each TDF - I'll cry if BMC bring Gerrans who can't stay on his bike in GT's as five DNF's in the last 7 GT's testifies - BMC needs to pick a smart and versatile team for the TDF - Something like

Porte
TVG
Caruso
Wyss
Ventoso
Kung
Schar

Then your 8th position depends on whether you go for mountain support or flat lands support, so you go for either De Marchi or J P Drucker.

BMC and Porte need to decide how serious is their attempt at the TDF - Evans chose a team in 20111 that were solely devoted to his cause - Enough said.
No way Ventoso is going to TDF. I would send Roche instead of him and trust Bettiol for the 8th spot (kind of an all rounder)
This is a suggested team with characteristics that can best help Porte - Of course you can change one or two members around - Will say my observation is Roche needs more help in the flats, as opposed to the mountains.
 
Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
Alexandre B. said:
I just can't see GVA out of the Tour team, as he is their best chance to win a stage (and some of them are really good for him).

Tour team

Porte
Tj
Caruso
Gerrans
Kung
Van Avermaet
Dennis
Schar


This tema is for TTT and for cobbles

I would bring Tuens and Roche but dont think they are going to the Tour
GVA and Gerrans - These are exactly the type of riders, Porte should not want in his team if he is serious about the TDF.
 
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