Richie Porte Discussion Thread.

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Unless he cracks, he'll have demonstrated that he can win the tour when Froome isn't there. Which is the most every other GT rider in the world can claim to.

But two other riders have already won plenty of GTs, while Porte has nothing, not even a stage win. You know, those two riders who are not riding for GC in this Tour... At best Porte can claim he can win a Tour if Nibali, Contador and Froome are not there. And who knows if Quintana will be this weak next year.

I doubt Nibali or Contador would be much closer to Froome than luck adjusted Porte. I think Porte's best level is sufficient to challenge them and have a decent chance of triumphing when they show up in their typical shape.

For that matter, so is Aru's if he can get more consistent throughout the 3 weeks.

Porte hasn't done anything remotely impressive so far this Tour. And the competition is very weak. It's quite obvious Froome is riding with the handbrake on.

Well, at least he's there being the strongest after Froome. Contador can't even ride a Tour without falling twice off his bike. Hence, for a Contador fan, Porte has the wonderful ability of not falling off a bike while riding the Tour.

Really, stop with the non-sense mate.

Porte can't ride his bike without his tires getting flat.

Great argument! He's the second strongest in a weak field. Colour me not impressed.

Ps: Porte abandoned the Giro last year, won by Contador, after a crash.

 

[Cookster15]

Get over Contador Pistolero. This isn't about Contador this is the Porte thread and he is finally realising his GT potential. You quote Mollema. Well Mollema has lost 1'32" to Porte in the last two days. You seem to be grasping at straws aghast that LRP is stealing some limelight. Sure in comparison to Alberto's record this is nothing but for a guy like Porte it is great to see. There is no reason to be so ungracious. All good things come to an end.

 

[SeriousSam]

Everyone important is there except Contador. Quintana isn't as good as he can be. Literally every single GT is weak if we use your exacting standards,

 

[warmfuzzies]

<Bang Bang>. Contador's days at the top of the sport are over. Porte is showing some impressive late form. Hope he continues to build on this next year.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Everyone important is there except Contador. Quintana isn't as good as he can be. Literally every single GT is weak if we use your exacting standards,

Let's not use the argument "everyone important is there". Beating Boonen in 2016 isn't nearly as impressive as beating Boonen in 2005, to give you an example. I think we can all agree that Quintana is not at his 2013-2015 level. We can also all agree that Nibali isn't here to ride for GC, but to prepare for the Olympics. He already won the Giro and stated before the Tour he was going to help Aru at the Tour instead - which he did. Valverde also has the Giro in his legs which means he's not in top form for this Tour either. So that leaves us with the likes of Mollema.

Sorry but beating Mollema is not impressive and it has nothing to do with Contador crashing out. If you think beating Mollema is some amazing achievement then you must not have thought highly of Porte before this Tour de France.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Everyone important is there except Contador. Quintana isn't as good as he can be. Literally every single GT is weak if we use your exacting standards,

Let's not use the argument "everyone important is there". Beating Boonen in 2016 isn't nearly as impressive as beating Boonen in 2005, to give you an example. I think we can all agree that Quintana is not at his 2013-2015 level. We can also all agree that Nibali isn't here to ride for GC, but to prepare for the Olympics. He already won the Giro and stated before the Tour he was going to help Aru at the Tour instead - which he did. Valverde also has the Giro in his legs which means he's not in top form for this Tour either. So that leaves us with the likes of Mollema.

Sorry but beating Mollema is not impressive and it has nothing to do with Contador crashing out.

Who cares. Porte is riding well regardless. Your carry on is ungracious and unnecessary. Winning the Giro in 2015 wasn't nearly as impressive as winning the Giro in 2011. Contador's best days are past him. Get over it.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Everyone important is there except Contador. Quintana isn't as good as he can be. Literally every single GT is weak if we use your exacting standards,

Let's not use the argument "everyone important is there". Beating Boonen in 2016 isn't nearly as impressive as beating Boonen in 2005, to give you an example. I think we can all agree that Quintana is not at his 2013-2015 level. We can also all agree that Nibali isn't here to ride for GC, but to prepare for the Olympics. He already won the Giro and stated before the Tour he was going to help Aru at the Tour instead - which he did. Valverde also has the Giro in his legs which means he's not in top form for this Tour either. So that leaves us with the likes of Mollema.

Sorry but beating Mollema is not impressive and it has nothing to do with Contador crashing out.

Who cares. Porte is riding well regardless. Your carry on is ungracious and unnecessary. Winning the Giro in 2015 wasn't nearly as impressive as winning the Giro in 2011. Contador's best days are past him. Get over it.

And Porte isn't an impressive GT rider. Get over it. Contador has beaten Porte in just about every race they entered this year.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Everyone important is there except Contador. Quintana isn't as good as he can be. Literally every single GT is weak if we use your exacting standards,

Let's not use the argument "everyone important is there". Beating Boonen in 2016 isn't nearly as impressive as beating Boonen in 2005, to give you an example. I think we can all agree that Quintana is not at his 2013-2015 level. We can also all agree that Nibali isn't here to ride for GC, but to prepare for the Olympics. He already won the Giro and stated before the Tour he was going to help Aru at the Tour instead - which he did. Valverde also has the Giro in his legs which means he's not in top form for this Tour either. So that leaves us with the likes of Mollema.

Sorry but beating Mollema is not impressive and it has nothing to do with Contador crashing out.

Who cares. Porte is riding well regardless. Your carry on is ungracious and unnecessary. Winning the Giro in 2015 wasn't nearly as impressive as winning the Giro in 2011. Contador's best days are past him. Get over it.

And Porte isn't an impressive GT rider. Get over it. Contador has beaten Porte in just about every race they entered this year.

I couldn't care less. Richie is doing great for Richie not for "Pistolero".

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Everyone important is there except Contador. Quintana isn't as good as he can be. Literally every single GT is weak if we use your exacting standards,

Let's not use the argument "everyone important is there". Beating Boonen in 2016 isn't nearly as impressive as beating Boonen in 2005, to give you an example. I think we can all agree that Quintana is not at his 2013-2015 level. We can also all agree that Nibali isn't here to ride for GC, but to prepare for the Olympics. He already won the Giro and stated before the Tour he was going to help Aru at the Tour instead - which he did. Valverde also has the Giro in his legs which means he's not in top form for this Tour either. So that leaves us with the likes of Mollema.

Sorry but beating Mollema is not impressive and it has nothing to do with Contador crashing out. If you think beating Mollema is some amazing achievement then you must not have thought highly of Porte before this Tour de France.

Ok so run me through some recent GTs that didn't feature weak competition.

 

[Jelantik]

So far Porte is the only who looks like the second strongest rider behind Froome. Two more days, we'll see if he can keep continue climbing. I wonder if Froome will help him get to the podium since Porte is the only who can follow Froome and Froome can easily sit behind Porte.. just like the old days.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Everyone important is there except Contador. Quintana isn't as good as he can be. Literally every single GT is weak if we use your exacting standards,

Let's not use the argument "everyone important is there". Beating Boonen in 2016 isn't nearly as impressive as beating Boonen in 2005, to give you an example. I think we can all agree that Quintana is not at his 2013-2015 level. We can also all agree that Nibali isn't here to ride for GC, but to prepare for the Olympics. He already won the Giro and stated before the Tour he was going to help Aru at the Tour instead - which he did. Valverde also has the Giro in his legs which means he's not in top form for this Tour either. So that leaves us with the likes of Mollema.

Sorry but beating Mollema is not impressive and it has nothing to do with Contador crashing out. If you think beating Mollema is some amazing achievement then you must not have thought highly of Porte before this Tour de France.

Ok so run me through some recent GTs that didn't feature weak competition.

The thing is, Porte can't even win a GT with weak competition. He was there in 2014 remember? There will always be someone stronger. I still only rank him as the fifth or sixth best GT rider.

 

[movingtarget]

I guess Porte would accept the sixth best GT rider at the moment as there are currently five riders still racing that have won a GT, six if you include Hesjedal, not sure if he has retired or not. You can only compete against who turns up on the day. Contador has not made the Tour podium since 2010, Quintana is below his best of course. Take out the puncture and Porte is in second place so considering no one expected him to beat Froome that is the best he was going to get. No one expected Mollema and Yates to put in the rides they have. Mollema has admitted he is in the best form of his life. Aru is a GT winner and Bardet has definitely improved so I think Porte's ride so far is full of merit. It's only his third time as team leader so it's a late start in that regard after working for others for so many years and he has been the only one to put pressure on Sky in the mountains even though Froome has been good enough to go with him. For a guy that many people thought did not have the goods for a strong GT I think he is doing well and with two stages to go can still improve his position. The crash on Ventoux probably cost him another 30 seconds in the last km. Even with the bad luck he still a chance at the podium. His first TT was a bit below his best but it was a hard day in the wind for the smaller riders. Not everyone can attack like Contador or Froome. Comparing Porte to riders like that is unrealistic as it is only now he is showing that he can compete over three weeks and to say that he should be thrashing riders like Mollema who has much more experience as a team leader in grand tours makes no sense. Like Porte said it's totally different doing domestique duties and being able to soft pedal some stages to be at your best for your team leader when it counts. As a team leader the pressure is on every day, mind and body.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Everyone important is there except Contador. Quintana isn't as good as he can be. Literally every single GT is weak if we use your exacting standards,

Let's not use the argument "everyone important is there". Beating Boonen in 2016 isn't nearly as impressive as beating Boonen in 2005, to give you an example. I think we can all agree that Quintana is not at his 2013-2015 level. We can also all agree that Nibali isn't here to ride for GC, but to prepare for the Olympics. He already won the Giro and stated before the Tour he was going to help Aru at the Tour instead - which he did. Valverde also has the Giro in his legs which means he's not in top form for this Tour either. So that leaves us with the likes of Mollema.

Sorry but beating Mollema is not impressive and it has nothing to do with Contador crashing out.

Who cares. Porte is riding well regardless. Your carry on is ungracious and unnecessary. Winning the Giro in 2015 wasn't nearly as impressive as winning the Giro in 2011. Contador's best days are past him. Get over it.

contador aid he is foing his best numbers sver. In fact he got his best difference ever in Malhao, and he was much better than the second in Pais Vasco.

But I think Porte now is at his level for a race as le Tour.. We saw it in Dauphiné.

 

[Sciocco]

Re:

I guess Porte would accept the sixth best GT rider at the moment as there are currently five riders still racing that have won a GT, six if you include Hesjedal, not sure if he has retired or not. You can only compete against who turns up on the day. Contador has not made the Tour podium since 2010, Quintana is below his best of course. Take out the puncture and Porte is in second place so considering no one expected him to beat Froome that is the best he was going to get. No one expected Mollema and Yates to put in the rides they have. Mollema has admitted he is in the best form of his life. Aru is a GT winner and Bardet has definitely improved so I think Porte's ride so far is full of merit. It's only his third time as team leader so it's a late start in that regard after working for others for so many years and he has been the only one to put pressure on Sky in the mountains even though Froome has been good enough to go with him. For a guy that many people thought did not have the goods for a strong GT I think he is doing well and with two stages to go can still improve his position. The crash on Ventoux probably cost him another 30 seconds in the last km. Even with the bad luck he still a chance at the podium. His first TT was a bit below his best but it was a hard day in the wind for the smaller riders. Not everyone can attack like Contador or Froome. Comparing Porte to riders like that is unrealistic as it is only now he is showing that he can compete over three weeks and to say that he should be thrashing riders like Mollema who has much more experience as a team leader in grand tours makes no sense. Like Porte said it's totally different doing domestique duties and being able to soft pedal some stages to be at your best for your team leader when it counts. As a team leader the pressure is on every day, mind and body.

Contador
Nibali
Froome
Quintana
Aru
Valverde
Hesjedal
Cunego
Horner
Scarponi (some may include)

A big 6...

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Unless he cracks, he'll have demonstrated that he can win the tour when Froome isn't there. Which is the most every other GT rider in the world can claim to.

But two other riders have already won plenty of GTs, while Porte has nothing, not even a stage win. You know, those two riders who are not riding for GC in this Tour... At best Porte can claim he can win a Tour if Nibali, Contador and Froome are not there. And who knows if Quintana will be this weak next year.

Well maybe he can claim it, but until he actually wins a GT no matter who is there, all claims are nothing but hot air.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I guess Porte would accept the sixth best GT rider at the moment as there are currently five riders still racing that have won a GT, six if you include Hesjedal, not sure if he has retired or not. You can only compete against who turns up on the day. Contador has not made the Tour podium since 2010, Quintana is below his best of course. Take out the puncture and Porte is in second place so considering no one expected him to beat Froome that is the best he was going to get. No one expected Mollema and Yates to put in the rides they have. Mollema has admitted he is in the best form of his life. Aru is a GT winner and Bardet has definitely improved so I think Porte's ride so far is full of merit. It's only his third time as team leader so it's a late start in that regard after working for others for so many years and he has been the only one to put pressure on Sky in the mountains even though Froome has been good enough to go with him. For a guy that many people thought did not have the goods for a strong GT I think he is doing well and with two stages to go can still improve his position. The crash on Ventoux probably cost him another 30 seconds in the last km. Even with the bad luck he still a chance at the podium. His first TT was a bit below his best but it was a hard day in the wind for the smaller riders. Not everyone can attack like Contador or Froome. Comparing Porte to riders like that is unrealistic as it is only now he is showing that he can compete over three weeks and to say that he should be thrashing riders like Mollema who has much more experience as a team leader in grand tours makes no sense. Like Porte said it's totally different doing domestique duties and being able to soft pedal some stages to be at your best for your team leader when it counts. As a team leader the pressure is on every day, mind and body.

Contador
Nibali
Froome
Quintana
Aru
Valverde
Hesjedal
Cunego
Horner
Scarponi (some may include)

A big 6...

Yes a big six I forgot Cunego and Horner which is too easy to do and Scarponi well may be included. Six or nine it does not matter I still think Porte is doing well so far. Porte won't win the Tour so rankings mean little.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Unless he cracks, he'll have demonstrated that he can win the tour when Froome isn't there. Which is the most every other GT rider in the world can claim to.

But two other riders have already won plenty of GTs, while Porte has nothing, not even a stage win. You know, those two riders who are not riding for GC in this Tour... At best Porte can claim he can win a Tour if Nibali, Contador and Froome are not there. And who knows if Quintana will be this weak next year.

Well maybe he can claim it, but until he actually wins a GT no matter who is there, all claims are nothing but hot air.

No one is claiming anything. I don't hear Porte claiming anything. The whole argument is superfluous. Why is Porte being compared to multiple GT winners ? But it is still okay to enjoy his ride in this year's Tour. You never get the best riders all turning up anyway in their best form, someone is always affected by illness or crashes so you can only beat whoever is still in the race. The rest of it is navel gazing.

 

[Jancouver]

Re:

Porte is 2 days away from smacking all the people in the face that said he can't perform over 3 weeks.

I have no affinity for him, but I really do hope he doesn't crack just to proof all the doomsayers wrong.

You know that all of us non-believers will find another reason why that happened or why this is just an exception to the rule. :lol:

I already have my trump cards ready

1. weak field
2. short/easy stages
3. Giro is much harder

.. I'm sure I will come with a bunch more before the end of the Tour if he won't crack

 

[Night Rider]

Re:

Porte is 2 days away from smacking all the people in the face that said he can't perform over 3 weeks.

I have no affinity for him, but I really do hope he doesn't crack just to proof all the doomsayers wrong.

I still don't see him getting a podium place.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Porte is 2 days away from smacking all the people in the face that said he can't perform over 3 weeks.

I have no affinity for him, but I really do hope he doesn't crack just to proof all the doomsayers wrong.

You know that all of us non-believers will find another reason why that happened or why this is just an exception to the rule. :lol:

I already have my trump cards ready

1. weak field
2. short/easy stages
3. Giro is much harder

.. I'm sure I will come with a bunch more before the end of the Tour if he won't crack

Trump cards ?

1. This years Tour field is no weaker than the Giro. e.g. Chaves 2nd & Valverde 3rd. The Vuelta is training for the worlds or a consolation prize for those who failed at the Tour or Giro.
2. The Tour is raced harder than the other GTs as that is the one the team and sponsors really want to win. No such thing as an easy stage. Even flat stages are bloody hard as the Sprinter teams usually ensure.
3. Giro mountains are harder but racing not as intense (see #2). Its also usually much hotter at the Tour (July) than the Giro (May).

Porte still riding strongly deep into the 3rd week. I won't be disappointed if he continues to ride like this but fails to get a podium. It will still be a big poke in the eye to his detractors. But of course we all know Porte will bonk and lose 30 minutes in the next two days and you can have your pound of forum flesh.

ha ha.

 

[DBotero]

So he's in 5th place now and his proverbial luck was there again today.Podium still possible but looks hard to achieve.

 

[SeriousSam]

Podium looks unlikely. But he's second adjusting for bad luck and that counts a lot towards establishing his credentials as a GT rider, which those that like to estimate GT ability by counting victories wrongfully doubted. Turns out jumping to conclusions with n=3 is error prone.

 

[Ramira]

Re:

Podium looks unlikely. But he's second adjusting for bad luck and that counts a lot towards establishing his credentials as a GT rider, which those that like to estimate GT ability by counting victories wrongfully doubted. Turns out jumping to conclusions with n=3 is error prone.

Yup he's one day away from shedding the "always having a bad day" tag.

Not sure he should keep trying for the TDF though, he won't be able to beat Froome. I think if he focuses on the Giro and Vuelta he could end his career with a GT victory.

 

[movingtarget]

Mixed day for Richie but impressive result for Bardet. Yates weakening but still riding well. Terrible day for Mollema. Rain and bike racing anything can happen. I hope Porte can hang tough tomorrow.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Podium looks unlikely. But he's second adjusting for bad luck and that counts a lot towards establishing his credentials as a GT rider, which those that like to estimate GT ability by counting victories wrongfully doubted. Turns out jumping to conclusions with n=3 is error prone.

He gave it his best. Not much more he can do. Many tired looking riders hitting the line today and TJVG offered sterling support ! Thankfully Caruso had a great day and was great support to Richie. Bardet has looked one of the fresher riders and his TT confirmed it. Aru also looks pretty good but too far back now. Quintana will probably hold his podium place now after an anonomous race by his standards. Mollema you have to feel sorry for but I have doubts he would have stayed with the leaders on the final climb anyway but he would not have lost the time he did with crashes obviously. Yates for his age and experience is one for the future.