Richie Porte Discussion Thread.

[movingtarget]

Re:

I am sure Porte knows he has no friend in Froome on race day

He already knew that but there were a few incidents between Porte and Froome in this race that will only give Porte more motivation. Porte still had the more successful race, to be isolated and only lose by 10 seconds was still a great performance and notably when he passed Froome on the last climb he went straight past and didn't even look at him. Froome sat on Porte's wheel which he did for the majority of the race, until he was dropped. I still think that Porte can take a lot from his performance going into the Tour even though he was beaten by a career best Fulsgang. He rode a great TT and climbed better than anyone. He should be satisfied with his main goal yet to come.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Gotta remember, Froome is the guy that stole baby bunnies to feed his pet snakes

That's another way to put it!! :lol:

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

I think Porte has finally realized his buddy dosen't give a damn about him and will offer him no more assistance regardless of whether he's also in a position to win the GC . Froome may be able to justify yesterdays stage tactics but there's no excuse for how he rode the sprint other than showing he has a total lack of respect for a friend .

also i'm not trying to say Froome was wrong in trying to win , i'm just pointing out that i can understand why Porte is upset

TBH Froome normally sprints all over the road and he also had no idea Porte chose to come by him on the right. People here like usual are trying to make it into a thing about how this shows Froome "disrespects" him.

If he'd wanted to disrespect him he'd have checked over his shoulder to see where Portw was and closed the door completely instead of then moving back towards the middle when he did notice LRP was there to let him through.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Re: Re:

I think Porte has finally realized his buddy dosen't give a damn about him and will offer him no more assistance regardless of whether he's also in a position to win the GC . Froome may be able to justify yesterdays stage tactics but there's no excuse for how he rode the sprint other than showing he has a total lack of respect for a friend .

also i'm not trying to say Froome was wrong in trying to win , i'm just pointing out that i can understand why Porte is upset

TBH Froome normally sprints all over the road and he also had no idea Porte chose to come by him on the right. People here like usual are trying to make it into a thing about how this shows Froome "disrespects" him.

If he'd wanted to disrespect him he'd have checked over his shoulder to see where Portw was and closed the door completely instead of then moving back towards the middle when he did notice LRP was there to let him through.

Agreed, I don't think Froome did it on purpose. But he did cost Porte the win with the erratic move to his right.

 

[red zone]

Re: Re:

I think Porte has finally realized his buddy dosen't give a damn about him and will offer him no more assistance regardless of whether he's also in a position to win the GC . Froome may be able to justify yesterdays stage tactics but there's no excuse for how he rode the sprint other than showing he has a total lack of respect for a friend .

also i'm not trying to say Froome was wrong in trying to win , i'm just pointing out that i can understand why Porte is upset

TBH Froome normally sprints all over the road and he also had no idea Porte chose to come by him on the right. People here like usual are trying to make it into a thing about how this shows Froome "disrespects" him.

If he'd wanted to disrespect him he'd have checked over his shoulder to see where Portw was and closed the door completely instead of then moving back towards the middle when he did notice LRP was there to let him through.

it doesn't matter what people on here believe , Porte however feels his good buddy screwed him

 

[DanielSong39]

Porte should call up his not-so-good buddy Nibali on how to handle these situations.

 

[yaco]

Much ado about nothing - Porte was tactically naive in the last stage, as well as having limited team support - Porte and Fuglsang were clearly the strongest riders in the race - Porte was strongest in the ITT and Fuglsang matched him in the mountains - I'd be more worried about Froome than Porte.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Porte lost the Dauphine when Kwiatkowski sailed by him on the descent, no other way to put it. He follows his lines and links up with that group, there is no problem. He arrives with Fuglsang at the foot of the climb and probably beats him and the rest to take his 2nd stage and a dominating win in the CDD.

Froome had nothing to do with that, it was his **** descending that cost him. And it's going to cost him massively now that he has essentially announced weeks before the Tour "I'm a **** descender, attack me and get a minute".

This is a good point.

I'm also wondering why I keep reading "RP was the strongest rider...". If racing was an uphill TT maybe, but since its about racing the entire course, he wasn't.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

This is a good point.

I'm also wondering why I keep reading "RP was the strongest rider...". If racing was an uphill TT maybe, but since its about racing the entire course, he wasn't.

To be fair to Richie he was the strongest rider. He completed the course in the fastest time out of any rider including Fuglsang.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Porte crushes Contador by over 5 minutes? That's got to hurt some feelings around here...

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Porte lost the Dauphine when Kwiatkowski sailed by him on the descent, no other way to put it. He follows his lines and links up with that group, there is no problem. He arrives with Fuglsang at the foot of the climb and probably beats him and the rest to take his 2nd stage and a dominating win in the CDD.

Froome had nothing to do with that, it was his **** descending that cost him. And it's going to cost him massively now that he has essentially announced weeks before the Tour "I'm a **** descender, attack me and get a minute".

Yes, if his rivals can't beat him uphill they need to send strong team mates up the road and try to distance him on the descents to link up with them. I think that's Porte's biggest weakness at this stage.

 

[Bolder]

Technically, Porte is probably right, but emotionally, he has to play it cool and keep those thoughts to himself. Now, his rivals know how easily he can be rattled. I think he is a major, major talent, but part of being a winner is acting like you've already won. "Act like you've been there before" is what coaches tell players.

My completely uninformed take as a cycling fan and amateur racer long ago is that -- as has been pointed out many times -- there were 5-6 riders with a good chance to win, and a few more with podium aspirations. Of course riders are going to form alliances of convenience, but it doesn't mean that there was actual malice toward RP.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Technically, Porte is probably right, but emotionally, he has to play it cool and keep those thoughts to himself. Now, his rivals know how easily he can be rattled. I think he is a major, major talent, but part of being a winner is acting like you've already won. "Act like you've been there before" is what coaches tell players.

My completely uninformed take as a cycling fan and amateur racer long ago is that -- as has been pointed out many times -- there were 5-6 riders with a good chance to win, and a few more with podium aspirations. Of course riders are going to form alliances of convenience, but it doesn't mean that there was actual malice toward RP.

There certainly wasn't malice toward him.

 

[thehook]

Porte was not a good sportsman. When riding for SKY. What he got at this Dauphine. Was a little taste of there medicine. Which he was a part of. He needs to just settle down. Let them play there games. He has to know that they are all in for Froome in LeTour. Let his domestiques ride for him. And surf the SKY train. Cover Froome and then bury him when he has his chance. Froome is the Defending Champ. Make him ride to win. Froome had ZERO PRESSURE to win Dauphine. The tour will be a different animal.

If i'm OCH. I bing some big bodies to shuttle him around and a few climbers. Let him surf the SKY train. If SKY does not have a big GC #2. They will only be riding for Froome. Porte should sit on as Contador and Nairo attack. Make Froome chase and then drop the Hammer.

 

[spiritualride]

Let him surf the SKY train. If SKY does not have a big GC #2. They will only be riding for Froome.

What if Porte takes yellow on PDBF, which there is a significant possibility? Instead of a Sky train, it's a BMC train on stage 9 (Mont du Chat stage). There might be 1-3 Sky super-domestiques who are close on GC that could attack early on that stage. Sky have already seen the value in isolating Porte.

Given the easy route, it won't be hard for Sky to keep domestiques close to the GC lead. And their incredibly strong team might be more valuable in an attacking rather than defensive role.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Porte lost the Dauphine when Kwiatkowski sailed by him on the descent, no other way to put it. He follows his lines and links up with that group, there is no problem. He arrives with Fuglsang at the foot of the climb and probably beats him and the rest to take his 2nd stage and a dominating win in the CDD.

Froome had nothing to do with that, it was his **** descending that cost him. And it's going to cost him massively now that he has essentially announced weeks before the Tour "I'm a **** descender, attack me and get a minute".

Yes, if his rivals can't beat him uphill they need to send strong team mates up the road and try to distance him on the descents to link up with them. I think that's Porte's biggest weakness at this stage.

But on the trickiest descent he kept Froome in sight. I don't think he's a great descender but he prefers not to take the risks that Froome takes. I think the final descent might have had more to do with having the wind knocked out his sails. But it's true that his rivals will see it as a tactic if they can't gap him going uphill.

I still think that the worst thing that could happen to Porte in the Tour is to take the yellow jersey early in the race.

 

[lenric]

Yeah, well, about that...

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re:

Technically, Porte is probably right, but emotionally, he has to play it cool and keep those thoughts to himself. Now, his rivals know how easily he can be rattled. I think he is a major, major talent, but part of being a winner is acting like you've already won. "Act like you've been there before" is what coaches tell players.

My completely uninformed take as a cycling fan and amateur racer long ago is that -- as has been pointed out many times -- there were 5-6 riders with a good chance to win, and a few more with podium aspirations. Of course riders are going to form alliances of convenience, but it doesn't mean that there was actual malice toward RP.

Agreed. Porte should take a page from the GVA beta male to alpha male transformation book, but I don't think he has it in him.

As others have said - a Cadel Evans-like scenario would be best - but in Evans' case it actually suited his strengths. He didn't have to hold back to not take the yellow jersey earlier than in the Grenoble ITT.

Porte, OTOH, could easily take yellow on stage 5 already. If Froome doesn't massively improve it's actually highly likely.

Can't wait to see how BMC will handle this. To basically let Porte be the brains of the operation would be disastrous for their Tour ambitions.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Technically, Porte is probably right, but emotionally, he has to play it cool and keep those thoughts to himself. Now, his rivals know how easily he can be rattled. I think he is a major, major talent, but part of being a winner is acting like you've already won. "Act like you've been there before" is what coaches tell players.

My completely uninformed take as a cycling fan and amateur racer long ago is that -- as has been pointed out many times -- there were 5-6 riders with a good chance to win, and a few more with podium aspirations. Of course riders are going to form alliances of convenience, but it doesn't mean that there was actual malice toward RP.

Agreed. Porte should take a page from the GVA beta male to alpha male transformation book, but I don't think he has it in him.

As others have said - a Cadel Evans-like scenario would be best - but in Evans' case it actually suited his strengths. He didn't have to hold back to not take the yellow jersey earlier than in the Grenoble ITT.

Porte, OTOH, could easily take yellow on stage 5 already. If Froome doesn't massively improve it's actually highly likely.

Can't wait to see how BMC will handle this. To basically let Porte be the brains of the operation would be disastrous for their Tour ambitions.

A very sound and fair summation. It will be a test of both Porte's psyche & intelligence as much as his physical capacities. Have no real issues with no3 but little that I've seen and heard throughout Porte's career has particularly convinced me of the strength of the first 2.

 

[offbyone]

He simply had blinders on and made a very bad tactical error by letting so many of the contenders go away. He was clearly super strong, he just blew it with that gap. He was racing not to lose.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Porte lost the Dauphine when Kwiatkowski sailed by him on the descent, no other way to put it. He follows his lines and links up with that group, there is no problem. He arrives with Fuglsang at the foot of the climb and probably beats him and the rest to take his 2nd stage and a dominating win in the CDD.

Froome had nothing to do with that, it was his **** descending that cost him. And it's going to cost him massively now that he has essentially announced weeks before the Tour "I'm a **** descender, attack me and get a minute".

Yes, if his rivals can't beat him uphill they need to send strong team mates up the road and try to distance him on the descents to link up with them. I think that's Porte's biggest weakness at this stage.

But on the trickiest descent he kept Froome in sight. I don't think he's a great descender but he prefers not to take the risks that Froome takes. I think the final descent might have had more to do with having the wind knocked out his sails. But it's true that his rivals will see it as a tactic if they can't gap him going uphill.

I still think that the worst thing that could happen to Porte in the Tour is to take the yellow jersey early in the race.

But he wouldn't kept him if there was no Fuglsang with him... He showed weakness on descents, big guns smelled blood, and they would exploit that at the Tour, that's a given...

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Porte lost the Dauphine when Kwiatkowski sailed by him on the descent, no other way to put it. He follows his lines and links up with that group, there is no problem. He arrives with Fuglsang at the foot of the climb and probably beats him and the rest to take his 2nd stage and a dominating win in the CDD.

Froome had nothing to do with that, it was his **** descending that cost him. And it's going to cost him massively now that he has essentially announced weeks before the Tour "I'm a **** descender, attack me and get a minute".

Yes, if his rivals can't beat him uphill they need to send strong team mates up the road and try to distance him on the descents to link up with them. I think that's Porte's biggest weakness at this stage.

But on the trickiest descent he kept Froome in sight. I don't think he's a great descender but he prefers not to take the risks that Froome takes. I think the final descent might have had more to do with having the wind knocked out his sails. But it's true that his rivals will see it as a tactic if they can't gap him going uphill.

I still think that the worst thing that could happen to Porte in the Tour is to take the yellow jersey early in the race.

No one should ever not take an opportunity to take time on key rivals, whether it puts them into the yellow jersey or not.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Porte lost the Dauphine when Kwiatkowski sailed by him on the descent, no other way to put it. He follows his lines and links up with that group, there is no problem. He arrives with Fuglsang at the foot of the climb and probably beats him and the rest to take his 2nd stage and a dominating win in the CDD.

Froome had nothing to do with that, it was his **** descending that cost him. And it's going to cost him massively now that he has essentially announced weeks before the Tour "I'm a **** descender, attack me and get a minute".

Yes, if his rivals can't beat him uphill they need to send strong team mates up the road and try to distance him on the descents to link up with them. I think that's Porte's biggest weakness at this stage.

But on the trickiest descent he kept Froome in sight. I don't think he's a great descender but he prefers not to take the risks that Froome takes. I think the final descent might have had more to do with having the wind knocked out his sails. But it's true that his rivals will see it as a tactic if they can't gap him going uphill.

I still think that the worst thing that could happen to Porte in the Tour is to take the yellow jersey early in the race.

No one should ever not take an opportunity to take time on key rivals, whether it puts them into the yellow jersey or not.

Would actually beg differ with you. I would take into account the relative strength of your team vs that of your key opponents; at what point of the GT the situation arises and finally the scope of any said game.

IF your team is compatatively weaker; its in the first week of the tour and especially if we aren't talking more than 10s of seconds then there's a strong argument against doing so rather than just staying on par with your rivals and NOT flogging your team via several days slogging on the front. IF your team IS strong and especially if we're talking putting minutes into them, then one's answer may be significantly different.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Porte lost the Dauphine when Kwiatkowski sailed by him on the descent, no other way to put it. He follows his lines and links up with that group, there is no problem. He arrives with Fuglsang at the foot of the climb and probably beats him and the rest to take his 2nd stage and a dominating win in the CDD.

Froome had nothing to do with that, it was his **** descending that cost him. And it's going to cost him massively now that he has essentially announced weeks before the Tour "I'm a **** descender, attack me and get a minute".

Yes, if his rivals can't beat him uphill they need to send strong team mates up the road and try to distance him on the descents to link up with them. I think that's Porte's biggest weakness at this stage.

But on the trickiest descent he kept Froome in sight. I don't think he's a great descender but he prefers not to take the risks that Froome takes. I think the final descent might have had more to do with having the wind knocked out his sails. But it's true that his rivals will see it as a tactic if they can't gap him going uphill.

I still think that the worst thing that could happen to Porte in the Tour is to take the yellow jersey early in the race.

No one should ever not take an opportunity to take time on key rivals, whether it puts them into the yellow jersey or not.

That's true but there is nothing wrong in offloading the jersey as well to a rider in a break. He isn't losing time to a dangerous rival. Of course in 2006 Pereiro thought it was Christmas in July when his rivals gifted him almost 20 minutes. Dumb thing to do for a top 10 GC rider ! If Porte's first TT is good then he could be in yellow of course at some point in the first week. BMC will have to put in a solid performance like they did in 2011. Porte needs an uneventful first week which he always seems to struggle with. Contador the same with his recent Tour history.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Porte lost the Dauphine when Kwiatkowski sailed by him on the descent, no other way to put it. He follows his lines and links up with that group, there is no problem. He arrives with Fuglsang at the foot of the climb and probably beats him and the rest to take his 2nd stage and a dominating win in the CDD.

Froome had nothing to do with that, it was his **** descending that cost him. And it's going to cost him massively now that he has essentially announced weeks before the Tour "I'm a **** descender, attack me and get a minute".

Yes, if his rivals can't beat him uphill they need to send strong team mates up the road and try to distance him on the descents to link up with them. I think that's Porte's biggest weakness at this stage.

But on the trickiest descent he kept Froome in sight. I don't think he's a great descender but he prefers not to take the risks that Froome takes. I think the final descent might have had more to do with having the wind knocked out his sails. But it's true that his rivals will see it as a tactic if they can't gap him going uphill.

I still think that the worst thing that could happen to Porte in the Tour is to take the yellow jersey early in the race.

No one should ever not take an opportunity to take time on key rivals, whether it puts them into the yellow jersey or not.

Agree 100%. Especially for a rider like Porte who never even finished on the Tour podium, to not take time when you can, it would be huge mistake. If it's Froome well maybe it could have sense, he's a triple winner he can afford to gamble. But for Porte, or any other rider except Froome (including Contador), not taking time when you can could be a huge mistake.