Richie Porte Discussion Thread.

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I can't imagine that BMC could work on the front for the purpose of tiring Sky without tiring themselves even more. It seems like a strategy destined to fail if in fact that was their plan. Is it that you think that BMC believes that they have a stronger team than Sky?

They might have believed that going hard on the flat would tire Sky more than it would tire them, because they believed they have better rouleurs, while Sky has better climbers.

Nailed it. Will work better if one or two of the GT teams have the same idea.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I can't imagine that BMC could work on the front for the purpose of tiring Sky without tiring themselves even more. It seems like a strategy destined to fail if in fact that was their plan. Is it that you think that BMC believes that they have a stronger team than Sky?

They might have believed that going hard on the flat would tire Sky more than it would tire them, because they believed they have better rouleurs, while Sky has better climbers.

Nailed it. Will work better if one or two of the GT teams have the same idea.

Unless there are serious cross winds resulting in echelons I can't see how that is going to work out to benefit BMC. Their rouleurs attempting to wear out Sky resulting in BMC wearing out their own inferior climbing domestiques and Porte in the process. I think they were working to keep Sky in yellow while Sky was hoping that the break would succeed thus leaving them without the responsibility of being the race leaders for the next 2 stages. As usual it all worked out in Sky's favor as Sky said that now that they have it they want to hold on to the leader's jersey through out the Tour, all the way to Paris.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

I can't imagine that BMC could work on the front for the purpose of tiring Sky without tiring themselves even more. It seems like a strategy destined to fail if in fact that was their plan. Is it that you think that BMC believes that they have a stronger team than Sky?

They might have believed that going hard on the flat would tire Sky more than it would tire them, because they believed they have better rouleurs, while Sky has better climbers.

Nailed it. Will work better if one or two of the GT teams have the same idea.

Unless there are serious cross winds resulting in echelons I can't see how that is going to work out to benefit BMC. Their rouleurs attempting to wear out Sky resulting in BMC wearing out their own inferior climbing domestiques and Porte in the process. I think they were working to keep Sky in yellow while Sky was hoping that the break would succeed thus leaving them without the responsibility of being the race leaders for the next 2 stages. As usual it all worked out in Sky's favor as Sky said that now that they have it they want to hold on to the leader's jersey through out the Tour, all the way to Paris.

Unfortunately I have to agree.

BMCs tactics yesterday were a disaster. Look at Sky's team, they don't just have guys who can climb, they also have 3 or 4 who are decent rouleurs - as good as BMC. What was BMC thinking? BMC wore themselves out for nothing and based upon the finale it seems Richie expended energy in the strung out wheels so didn't have the spark on the final steep gradients of La Planche des Belles Filles.

BMC should be worrying about staying fresh to protect Porte on the flat exposed windy stages where he can lose more time especially if there are echelons. This Tour also has mountain stages with long, fast technical descents like Mont du Chat where Porte can also be vulnerable as we saw in the Dauphine. Not looking good.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

I can't imagine that BMC could work on the front for the purpose of tiring Sky without tiring themselves even more. It seems like a strategy destined to fail if in fact that was their plan. Is it that you think that BMC believes that they have a stronger team than Sky?

They might have believed that going hard on the flat would tire Sky more than it would tire them, because they believed they have better rouleurs, while Sky has better climbers.

Nailed it. Will work better if one or two of the GT teams have the same idea.

Unless there are serious cross winds resulting in echelons I can't see how that is going to work out to benefit BMC. Their rouleurs attempting to wear out Sky resulting in BMC wearing out their own inferior climbing domestiques and Porte in the process. I think they were working to keep Sky in yellow while Sky was hoping that the break would succeed thus leaving them without the responsibility of being the race leaders for the next 2 stages. As usual it all worked out in Sky's favor as Sky said that now that they have it they want to hold on to the leader's jersey through out the Tour, all the way to Paris.

But here is the crux ...the whole point was for Richie to win the stage.... if he had won then the tired Doms would have been worth it...Porte must have made the call that he could win on the climb
So they worked to bring back the break ...but it didn't work..but who could tell till they tried

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/nicolas-roche-i-still-think-dan-could-end-up-on-the-podium-35900518.html

 

[HelloDolly]

BMC need to start getting riders in breaks especially on Sunday to help Porte on the descents

 

[DanielSong39]

BMC was going to have a second-rate climbing team anyway, so there was no point in butting heads against Sky, Movistar, or Astana. Might as well play to your strengths and see if they can take advantage of a peloton split at some point during the race.

Sky still drilled it at the end but maybe they had less juice than usual allowing Aru to get away.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

BMC was going to have a second-rate climbing team anyway, so there was no point in butting heads against Sky, Movistar, or Astana. Might as well play to your strengths and see if they can take advantage of a peloton split at some point during the race.

Sky still drilled it at the end but maybe they had less juice than usual allowing Aru to get away.

Inferior climbing doms to SKY ...yes

But not Astana or Movistar ....did you see where their riders ended up on Wednesday ...

 

[HelloDolly]

So Cycling Podcast relating how there was some dispute/struggle in BMC among sports directors .(they have too many) on tactics last Wednesday

 

[Katabatic]

Re: Re:

Inferior climbing doms to SKY ...yes

But not Astana or Movistar ....did you see where their riders ended up on Wednesday ...

You mean the Astana rider that won the stage?

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

BMC was going to have a second-rate climbing team anyway, so there was no point in butting heads against Sky, Movistar, or Astana. Might as well play to your strengths and see if they can take advantage of a peloton split at some point during the race.

Sky still drilled it at the end but maybe they had less juice than usual allowing Aru to get away.

Inferior climbing doms to SKY ...yes

But not Astana or Movistar ....did you see where their riders ended up on Wednesday ...

But interestingly Roche and Caruso finished ahead of the Sky doms. So far Movistar have hardly been sighted but they will have to come out and play on the next mountain stage. I thought BMC's tactics were okay. Porte was in a position to win the stage and collect the bonus but after all the hard work inexplicably he watched Aru go up the road. He still has Froome more on his mind than thinking of the win it seems. Maybe Aru still would have been too good but on a short climb both Porte and Froome reacted much too late. It wasn't a bad stage for BMC to target and it still wouldn't have had Porte in yellow which at this stage of the race is also a win and BMC now has the pressure off for a few days. So far Caruso and Roche look pretty good. Big test coming up on the weekend.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

BMC was going to have a second-rate climbing team anyway, so there was no point in butting heads against Sky, Movistar, or Astana. Might as well play to your strengths and see if they can take advantage of a peloton split at some point during the race.

Sky still drilled it at the end but maybe they had less juice than usual allowing Aru to get away.

Inferior climbing doms to SKY ...yes

But not Astana or Movistar ....did you see where their riders ended up on Wednesday ...

But interestingly Roche and Caruso finished ahead of the Sky doms. So far Movistar have hardly been sighted but they will have to come out and play on the next mountain stage. I thought BMC's tactics were okay. Porte was in a position to win the stage and collect the bonus but after all the hard work inexplicably he watched Aru go up the road. He still has Froome more on his mind than thinking of the win it seems. Maybe Aru still would have been too good but on a short climb both Porte and Froome reacted much too late. It wasn't a bad stage for BMC to target and it still wouldn't have had Porte in yellow which at this stage of the race is also a win and BMC now has the pressure off for a few days. So far Caruso and Roche look pretty good. Big test coming up on the weekend.

Not sure who you mean, but Thomas finished ahead of both and also Landa came in before Caruso and only 2sec behind Roche. Those two are Sky doms, right?

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Inferior climbing doms to SKY ...yes

But not Astana or Movistar ....did you see where their riders ended up on Wednesday ...

You mean the Astana rider that won the stage?

Operative word in this discussion is Doms ....

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

BMC was going to have a second-rate climbing team anyway, so there was no point in butting heads against Sky, Movistar, or Astana. Might as well play to your strengths and see if they can take advantage of a peloton split at some point during the race.

Sky still drilled it at the end but maybe they had less juice than usual allowing Aru to get away.

Inferior climbing doms to SKY ...yes

But not Astana or Movistar ....did you see where their riders ended up on Wednesday ...

But interestingly Roche and Caruso finished ahead of the Sky doms. So far Movistar have hardly been sighted but they will have to come out and play on the next mountain stage. I thought BMC's tactics were okay. Porte was in a position to win the stage and collect the bonus but after all the hard work inexplicably he watched Aru go up the road. He still has Froome more on his mind than thinking of the win it seems. Maybe Aru still would have been too good but on a short climb both Porte and Froome reacted much too late. It wasn't a bad stage for BMC to target and it still wouldn't have had Porte in yellow which at this stage of the race is also a win and BMC now has the pressure off for a few days. So far Caruso and Roche look pretty good. Big test coming up on the weekend.

Not sure who you mean, but Thomas finished ahead of both and also Landa came in before Caruso and only 2sec behind Roche. Those two are Sky doms, right?

Wasn't including Thomas but I missed Landa although I suppose Thomas is a dom from now on and was always going to be.

 

[Jancouver]

So how will my favorite little-man do tomorrow? Will he already crack tomorrow or will he crack later?

Still just the first week, and so far fairly easy, but I think he will deliver his traditional "bad luck" day and will lose at least 10 minutes. And if not tomorrow sooner than later he will "deliver".

BTW I find it very amusing that so many around here would still consider TLMRP a contender for the GC win.

 

[SeriousSam]

Froome is the overwhelming favourite, Aru and Porte are contenders, everyone else is pretty much irrelevant. Porte will likely do well tomorrow but unless he can drop Froome he'll becomes less likely to win

 

[MightyWheelSucker]

So, GvA and Roche will probably be completly useless tomorrow. Maybe they would be not useful regardless, but it does not really leave much space to any team tactics (like trying to send someone into early break).

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Re:

So, GvA and Roche will probably be completly useless tomorrow. Maybe they would be not useful regardless, but it does not really leave much space to any team tactics (like trying to send someone into early break).

And you think the plan could involve sending GVA up the road on the first climb? lol.

In any case LRP must show hes more than an uphill sprinter if he wants to dent Froome's leadership imo.

 

[HelloDolly]

The thing is SKY have the strongest team by a mile in this Tour ...
So what can anyone do

BMC tried on Wedneday to make the stage hard and rode on the front aggressively and tried to win the stage ...seemed Landa and Henao at least were not great at the end.... BMC burned Kung and Schar a bit but they did have some days to recover ...but everyone were what the hell are BMC doing ??

Then today they put riders up there to race aggressively and it was not so easy today for SKY..but everyone says what the hell are BMC doing

Well at least they are doing something rather than the teams that all sat on the wheel today and did nothing ..Waiting for tomorrow ...but who knows what tomorrow may bring ?

BMC Doms are not going to win the race for Richie Porte ...what they have to do is make the race hard for Sky and hope over time it makes the difference

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Re:

The thing is SKY have the strongest team by a mile in this Tour ...
So what can anyone do

BMC tried on Wedneday to make the stage hard and rode on the front aggressively and tried to win the stage ...seemed Landa and Henao at least were not great at the end.... BMC burned Kung and Schar a bit but they did have some days to recover ...but everyone were what the hell are

BMC doing ??

Then today they put riders up there to race aggressively and it was not so easy today for SKY..but everyone says what the hell are BMC doing

Well at least they are doing something rather than the teams that all sat on the wheel today and did nothing ..Waiting for tomorrow ...but who knows what tomorrow may bring ?

BMC Doms are not going to win the race for Richie Porte ...what they have to do is make the race hard for Sky and hope over time it makes the difference

The tactics are ok, but LRP must step up Sunday imo.

 

[Katabatic]

Re: Re:

Inferior climbing doms to SKY ...yes

But not Astana or Movistar ....did you see where their riders ended up on Wednesday ...

You mean the Astana rider that won the stage?

Operative word in this discussion is Doms ....

Fuglsang didn't finish that far down. Movistar and Astana were always going to have weaker mountain doms. Their strategies were based more on a protected 1-2 punch with Aru/Fuglsang and Quintana/Valverde. Valverde crashed out, so Movistar is especially weak.

BMC have no domestiques that would make anyone raise an eyebrow if they attacked, so their job is to deliver LRP as far up the climbs and hope he's strong enough to make time over the other contenders. Doing what they did in stage 5 was not conducive to that kind of formula.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

So how will my favorite little-man do tomorrow? Will he already crack tomorrow or will he crack later?

Still just the first week, and so far fairly easy, but I think he will deliver his traditional "bad luck" day and will lose at least 10 minutes. And if not tomorrow sooner than later he will "deliver".

BTW I find it very amusing that so many around here would still consider TLMRP a contender for the GC win.

Do you think Porte could podium?

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Inferior climbing doms to SKY ...yes

But not Astana or Movistar ....did you see where their riders ended up on Wednesday ...

You mean the Astana rider that won the stage?

Operative word in this discussion is Doms ....

Fuglsang didn't finish that far down. Movistar and Astana were always going to have weaker mountain doms. Their strategies were based more on a protected 1-2 punch with Aru/Fuglsang and Quintana/Valverde. Valverde crashed out, so Movistar is especially weak.

BMC have no domestiques that would make anyone raise an eyebrow if they attacked, so their job is to deliver LRP as far up the climbs and hope he's strong enough to make time over the other contenders. Doing what they did in stage 5 was not conducive to that kind of formula.

Fuglsang is not capable of a one /two finishing behind BMC strongest Dom on Wednesday and now too far down in real terms...
BMC doms were higher up the climbs than anyone on Wednesday except Thomas so certainly "conducive to that kind of formula." !!!!

And even a one/two as you put still needs to be helped up a climb...so not very good argument to say other team are allowed to be weaker ...unless you havent a clue what "dropping one off" is about

To criticize BMC but give the other a free pass for 'weaker' Doms .. your formula is myopic and one dimensional

The truth is BMC are the only team so far who have dome anything while the others sit behind SKY

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

So how will my favorite little-man do tomorrow? Will he already crack tomorrow or will he crack later?

Still just the first week, and so far fairly easy, but I think he will deliver his traditional "bad luck" day and will lose at least 10 minutes. And if not tomorrow sooner than later he will "deliver".

BTW I find it very amusing that so many around here would still consider TLMRP a contender for the GC win.

Do you think Porte could podium?

32 years old and never been on the grand tour podium so unless there is some carnage and few of the top riders are forced to quit there is very little chance for a podium.

Personally, i think Froome, Aru, Quintana, Bardet, Yates are to finish higher. D.Martin and G are also sufferening from a "bad day syndrome" so they are questionable and along with Contador and all the other 2nd tier climbers he will be happy for a top 5.

 

[CTQ]

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/blog/2017/07/09/tan-lines-singularly-focused

"The way BMC Racing rode the first major mountain stage of this year's Tour sends all the wrong signals to not just their rivals, but their leader, too, writes Anthony Tan."

 

[movingtarget]

I can understand BMC getting GVA into the break yesterday but not Roche. Knowing what was coming on Sunday I think keeping Roche and Caruso fresh was vital for Porte but as Froome, Porte and many other riders commented after the stage, there are going to be tired legs anyway due to the high pace and constant attacks. GVA has already admitted that Sunday's stage is much too hard for him so he won't contribute much. I think this is probably the most dangerous stage of the race for Porte simply because all of his team will be gone pretty early if the climbs are raced hard except for Caruso possibly. This is a stage where Porte will probably have to make use of other teams later in the stage. Be interesting to see what Astana do. I think this stage will finish off the GC ambitions for a few riders. No one will want to get isolated on this stage. I am sure that BMC and Porte will have the Dauphine firmly in their minds. Porte will have to be at his best.