Richie Porte - what do we know about him?

[FroomehasneverdopedX]

so this guy is mutant one day, terrible for like 10 days then suddenly ET again..


wtf

 

[blackcat]

I think I have posted that I don't know what I am watching on my tv at the moment. None of it makes sense from a doping perspective or a clean perspective. But what I do think about the furore being generated towards Sky riders is that some of it is hypocritical as hell, and not without its own element of nationalistic bigotry. When I read this 'gordonstoun muscular christianity empire crew' stuff, it sounds like standard bitter Aussie anti-Brit sentiment. It isn't helpful, it is dishonest, and it is hypocritical, not least because of the obvious point that the obviously questionable Ritchie Porte is an aussie. (apologies if the originator of this meme isn't an aussie!)

I think Sky are cheating. But I think the people they are cheating are also cheats. In the time that Sky have been riding they have won two GTs. So has Nibali. Contador has won three.

We need a Kiwi winner

It is a send up. I am facetious. You can put it back on me, and Poe's law, re: inability to convey satire. But I have been on record multiple multiple multiple times, that I think all at the head of the field are doping.

If the riders they are competing against dont think they are being cheated, then how can an outsider be convinced Sky are cheating? They are lying no doubt, but all who do a doping urine and blood test and sign off on the form, are not they lying too. It is a no-win, they are compelled to.

I am not saying they are not cheating, but I am not saying they are cheating. If the insiders do not allege that they are cheating, if it is good for Vaughters to stay schtum, then, I dont think I can off-hand say they are cheating. If all at the head of field are on gear, if no one at the race allege cheating, it is ridiculous for me to assert they are cheating. But ofcourse they are doping. This is why I think it is absurd, and that is why i invoke the Gordstoun quote, I usually rattle off about 6 proper nouns that can represent Great Britain, not use any commas, just staccato (as a verb[neologism]) staccato reel off 6 nouns... I am not being serious. It is a fricken joke to take it seriously. Just like you cannot possibly take cycling seriously. But they want sympathy for being punched and spat on, they want to be taken seriously, but they can't be taken seriously if they cannot tell the truth. Yes, this is a paradox, as I already alluded to.

 

[blackcat]

Are you the culprit then?

To be honest, I don't think that sort of stuff is helpful. It might seem funny, but it just serves to polarise, get people's backs up, push the discussion away from being meaningful and into the playground.

Like I said, there is alround hypocrisy going on here, and that is part of it. This is about money not nationality.

I am not the culprit. I am not making it anything about nationalism.

We had this with Armstrong, we had this with Sky. They win, they justify some secret virtue, or marginal gains. But there is no secret or work ethic. The French are not lazy or less hungry. It is doping, simple.

But they made it about virtue. And I make a joke and satirise their virtue. How am I the person at fault for telling them the emperors clothes are a BS facade.

Armstrong said he was on his bike. Nike did the ad of Armstrong doing the climb in the snow, and retreating, and doing the climb in the snow again, because he "did not get it".

If you wish to believe what you are being sold, believe. I prefer to believe in the truth. It was never me making it about nationalism and jingoism. I was merely satirising those who needed to believe in Wiggins and Hoy and Froome, because they had some vicarious identity tied up in their heros winning and winning without sport drugs. I say their thinking is absurd. They are deluded. They are usually new to the sport.

Folks dont like to be confronted with the ugly truth.

There is no meaningful discussion to be made. People are arguing over Vayer's power to weight numbers, if Froome produces less than Gesink. This is so absurd.

Cos they are all doping. The sport does not want to indict the top GC riders, the top sprinters, the top timetriallers, they will not commit suicide of their sport. They are all at it, any different anti-doping regime, they just tweak their regimen, like in game theory.

I dont think JV runs a program. I am sure he does not. I dont even think he helps out his GC leaders. Quite a few on here do, Wiggo and Benotti for two. I think JV does provide the regime and internal testing, which can allow they individuals to do their own program. And he would know that Wiggins numbers in that Giro for Garmin, and the win for Ryder, were not without some manipulation for performance. The calibration problems for the technical instruments became a convenient response. Like for Millar and Van de Velde in 2007 or whenever the debut for the team was. They were target tested in the first week for funny physiology numbers. These are not all coincidences. But I dont believe they run a program. But I still dont believe in everything JV says, these technical instrument measurement errors are not correct. One or two p'raps. But all four? At inconvenient times, marrying with significant performances of their GC riders? do the statistical epidemiology of it, no chance it happening like that. Now, they could be dependent variables that do have nothing to do with PEDs but the blood numbers do coincide with good form. But this would not seem to place any stock in anti-doping science, and blood science, and what "funny blood numbers" look like. If they can be manipulated with such ease, then they would not be funny blood numbers where they need to do more targeted testing.

 

[SlickMongoose]

Re:

so this guy is mutant one day, terrible for like 10 days then suddenly ET again..


wtf

Is inconsistency more suspicious than consistency? I'm not seeing it.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

so this guy is mutant one day, terrible for like 10 days then suddenly ET again..


wtf

Is inconsistency more suspicious than consistency? I'm not seeing it.

neither.

but, i am not contradicting myself here, I do think that doping did have an influence in the amount of jour sans like Landis has in ~stage 13 (about) in 2006. ***ofcourse, Landis was doping and still had the jour sans

BUT BUT BUT doping with the O2 vectors, did decrease the amount and level of jour sans

 

[42x16ss]

Are you the culprit then?

To be honest, I don't think that sort of stuff is helpful. It might seem funny, but it just serves to polarise, get people's backs up, push the discussion away from being meaningful and into the playground.

Like I said, there is alround hypocrisy going on here, and that is part of it. This is about money not nationality.

I am not the culprit. I am not making it anything about nationalism.

We had this with Armstrong, we had this with Sky. They win, they justify some secret virtue, or marginal gains. But there is no secret or work ethic. The French are not lazy or less hungry. It is doping, simple.

But they made it about virtue. And I make a joke and satirise their virtue. How am I the person at fault for telling them the emperors clothes are a BS facade.

Armstrong said he was on his bike. Nike did the ad of Armstrong doing the climb in the snow, and retreating, and doing the climb in the snow again, because he "did not get it".

If you wish to believe what you are being sold, believe. I prefer to believe in the truth. It was never me making it about nationalism and jingoism. I was merely satirising those who needed to believe in Wiggins and Hoy and Froome, because they had some vicarious identity tied up in their heros winning and winning without sport drugs. I say their thinking is absurd. They are deluded. They are usually new to the sport.

Folks dont like to be confronted with the ugly truth.

There is no meaningful discussion to be made. People are arguing over Vayer's power to weight numbers, if Froome produces less than Gesink. This is so absurd.

Cos they are all doping. The sport does not want to indict the top GC riders, the top sprinters, the top timetriallers, they will not commit suicide of their sport. They are all at it, any different anti-doping regime, they just tweak their regimen, like in game theory.

I dont think JV runs a program. I am sure he does not. I dont even think he helps out his GC leaders. Quite a few on here do, Wiggo and Benotti for two. I think JV does provide the regime and internal testing, which can allow they individuals to do their own program. And he would know that Wiggins numbers in that Giro for Garmin, and the win for Ryder, were not without some manipulation for performance. The calibration problems for the technical instruments became a convenient response. Like for Millar and Van de Velde in 2007 or whenever the debut for the team was. They were target tested in the first week for funny physiology numbers. These are not all coincidences. But I dont believe they run a program. But I still dont believe in everything JV says, these technical instrument measurement errors are not correct. One or two p'raps. But all four? At inconvenient times, marrying with significant performances of their GC riders? do the statistical epidemiology of it, no chance it happening like that. Now, they could be dependent variables that do have nothing to do with PEDs but the blood numbers do coincide with good form. But this would not seem to place any stock in anti-doping science, and blood science, and what "funny blood numbers" look like. If they can be manipulated with such ease, then they would not be funny blood numbers where they need to do more targeted testing.

Well said. As for the last paragraph, I've always felt that JV - at least early on - went for riders he believed were "self sufficient" - Vande Velde, Zabriskie, Danielson, Millar, Hesjedal etc. If a positive came up, he didn't want his fingerprints on it.

 

[blackcat]

... for the last paragraph, I've always felt that JV - at least early on - went for riders he believed were "self sufficient" - Vande Velde, Zabriskie, Danielson, Millar, Hesjedal etc. If a positive came up, he didn't want his fingerprints on it.

I always thought, the veterans knew how the game was played, and could comfortably microdose within thresholds. And not testing positive, and not tripping the tripwire for positives, they could justify to themselves.

two of the doping refrain "if it does not show up it is not doping" "recovery therapy (ergo, not doping)"... when recovery therapy is just a little hormone enhancement on the side to put it to natural levels.

Zabriskie did not get the results on Garmin, but those four others did. I reckon Zabriskie must have been affected by Landis' plight. They were best mates I think, and I dont think they were still best mates in the ensuing years, not for any ill-will or malice, just, $hit happens. and in cycling, alot of scatology happens, you can do your phd in scatology in the peloton.

But the others apart from Zabriskie, they had their best results on Garmin, Millar as a stage-hunter was successful like Jensie, tho a case could be made he was more successful when he was a pure chrono rider in the early 2000s. But everyone else had their best results, how did this happen?

 

[thrawn]

... for the last paragraph, I've always felt that JV - at least early on - went for riders he believed were "self sufficient" - Vande Velde, Zabriskie, Danielson, Millar, Hesjedal etc. If a positive came up, he didn't want his fingerprints on it.

I always thought, the veterans knew how the game was played, and could comfortably microdose within thresholds. And not testing positive, and not tripping the tripwire for positives, they could justify to themselves.

two of the doping refrain "if it does not show up it is not doping" "recovery therapy (ergo, not doping)"... when recovery therapy is just a little hormone enhancement on the side to put it to natural levels.

Zabriskie did not get the results on Garmin, but those four others did. I reckon Zabriskie must have been affected by Landis' plight. They were best mates I think, and I dont think they were still best mates in the ensuing years, not for any ill-will or malice, just, $hit happens. and in cycling, alot of scatology happens, you can do your phd in scatology in the peloton.

But the others apart from Zabriskie, they had their best results on Garmin, Millar as a stage-hunter was successful like Jensie, tho a case could be made he was more successful when he was a pure chrono rider in the early 2000s. But everyone else had their best results, how did this happen?

How did it happen? Doping stopped being cool so they could compete clean

 

[blackcat]

Well said. As for the last paragraph, I've always felt that JV - at least early on - went for riders he believed were "self sufficient" - Vande Velde, Zabriskie, Danielson, Millar, Hesjedal etc. If a positive came up, he didn't want his fingerprints on it.

and also,
this is a controversial position, I dont think Garmin should be denied the doping potential of other riders in the peloton. This would be a double standard, I think Garmin have the right to compete on an even (more even, ofcourse doping is not even, just like sport is not even), I think Garmin should be able to compete on the doping even playing field. Why should they be the only team to commit hari kari and ride on bread and water. This would be manifestly unfair, and JV could not find any sponsors if his team was always picking up the rear of the field and the autobus and sagwagon.

as long as they dont test positive and spit in the soup.

And remember, the UCI and McQuaid were quite angry at Garmin in about 2010 and were itching for one of their riders to test positive. So this is one good thing in their corner, the guys in argyle from boulder.

I think that might have been around the time that Armstrong and the guys from Capital Sports and Entertainment with Verbruggen were looking at buying the Amaury Sport Org and were looking at buying other of the sport properties, and effectively owning and controlling the sport. Was not JV involved in some peripheral and strategic role here?

 

[blackcat]

How did it happen? Doping stopped being cool so they could compete clean

yep, you hit it on the head. doping was no longer what the cool kids did. have you seen the hipsters in Boulder?

 

[blackcat]

LRP BMC
BMC LRP
#initialacronym

There were always so many Aussies at the races with BMC caps on. With them still having Rohan Dennis and Campbell Flakemore – who is from Tasmania like me – the team still does have a fairly Australian flavour.

CampbellFlakemore gotta be a character from a Chevy Chase film or a Will Ferrell character no? just on off chance does anyone know what the flavour of Australia is? placenta jerky? santorum? smegma?

LRP ftw

 

[Avoriaz]

Re:

LRP BMC
BMC LRP
#initialacronym

There were always so many Aussies at the races with BMC caps on. With them still having Rohan Dennis and Campbell Flakemore – who is from Tasmania like me – the team still does have a fairly Australian flavour.

CampbellFlakemore gotta be a character from a Chevy Chase film or a Will Ferrell character no? just on off chance does anyone know what the flavour of Australia is? placenta jerky? santorum? smegma?

LRP ftw

Skippy p***

 

[Archibald]

Re:

LRP BMC
BMC LRP
#initialacronym

There were always so many Aussies at the races with BMC caps on. With them still having Rohan Dennis and Campbell Flakemore – who is from Tasmania like me – the team still does have a fairly Australian flavour.

CampbellFlakemore gotta be a character from a Chevy Chase film or a Will Ferrell character no? just on off chance does anyone know what the flavour of Australia is? placenta jerky? santorum? smegma?

LRP ftw

bbq'd "shrimp" according to Paul Hogan, and I know he's not talking about Cadel

 

[dwyatt]

Good to see richie still winning now he's with a clean team.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Good to see richie still winning now he's with a clean team.

being reunited with his former mentor Max "zero tolerance " Sciandri is paying dividends.

 

[pastronef]

nice to see him strong and winning.

I wonder what was the % of members cheering for him and % for Henao in the last K

 

[thehog]

nice to see him strong and winning.

I wonder what was the % of members cheering for him and % for Henao in the last K

It's mandatory for any Pro when riding a p1ssy provincial race to compare the crowds to "just like the Tour de France", when clearly it's nothing like the Tour

The Australian public just get behind this race so much and really does feel like riding the Tour de France up this climb. It's an incredible feeling,” said Porte

 

[LaFlorecita]

nice to see him strong and winning.

I wonder what was the % of members cheering for him and % for Henao in the last K

I was asleep so was not cheering for anyone.

 

[pastronef]

nice to see him strong and winning.

I wonder what was the % of members cheering for him and % for Henao in the last K

I was asleep so was not cheering for anyone.

I saw the highlights a few minutes ago. either of the two is fine for me. maybe I cheered a little bit more for LRP, because of his nickname

 

[blackcat]

nice to see him strong and winning.

I wonder what was the % of members cheering for him and % for Henao in the last K

It's mandatory for any Pro when riding a p1ssy provincial race to compare the crowds to "just like the Tour de France", when clearly it's nothing like the Tour

The Australian public just get behind this race so much and really does feel like riding the Tour de France up this climb. It's an incredible feeling,” said Porte

luv the post hog

 

[Ferminal]

How can you not cheer for Porte, his style uphill is pretty fun, just brute force.

Been interesting how for two weeks his been downplaying his form, and his performances at the Nats seemed to support that. I'm thinking he might be better geared towards the business end of the season this time around, although yesterday throws a spanner in that theory.

 

[Brullnux]

nice to see him strong and winning.

I wonder what was the % of members cheering for him and % for Henao in the last K

It's mandatory for any Pro when riding a p1ssy provincial race to compare the crowds to "just like the Tour de France", when clearly it's nothing like the Tour

The Australian public just get behind this race so much and really does feel like riding the Tour de France up this climb. It's an incredible feeling,” said Porte

I mean, he'll never win a Tour MTF so for him it's basically the closest he'll get, so I don't blame him for having imagination.

 

[StryderHells]

nice to see him strong and winning.

I wonder what was the % of members cheering for him and % for Henao in the last K

It's mandatory for any Pro when riding a p1ssy provincial race to compare the crowds to "just like the Tour de France", when clearly it's nothing like the Tour

The Australian public just get behind this race so much and really does feel like riding the Tour de France up this climb. It's an incredible feeling,” said Porte

In all fairness the Willunga stage is very well attended so the atmosphere would be good.

 

[sniper]

Richie Porte - what do we know about him?

Summary of interesting Richie Porte interview by David Walsh (haven't seen it posted here before) from 2013 taken from http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=3167.30]:

In it, Porte reveals:
- he rode as an amateur in Italy for Andrea Tafi, yes the 1998 positive Tafi.
- even after the relevations, he still considers Tafi as a second father
- interesting quote about his amateur days racing- Tafi introduced Porte to Riis in 2009 who signed him up as a Pro - after Riis asked him if his haematocrit had always been 42.
- Riis tore Porte to pieces over his weight, which he managed to drop from 72kgs to 65kgs.
- Porte liked his first year, but didn't like his second year when Contador was popped and Porte was told what to say.
- Porte kept in touch with Julich when Julich went to Sky who sang the praises of Kerrison "The guy is an absolute genius" and Porte went to Sky.
- Interesting quote on Froome being questioned about doping at the TdF- revealed spat at four times during the tour, plus the syringe squirting into the face.
- next years target is the Giro d'Italia, then help Froome win the TdF
- thinks he is talented, but Froome is freakishly talented.

I quite like the article and reveals Porte not to be afraid to address questions. Especially:
- doesn't reject Tafi because of latest revelations
- thinks there is a massive amateur doping problem
- didn't like being told what to say at Saxo Tinkoff
- points the finger, or at least wants people to question, at ex champion non performers in this tour. Well that will be Schleck, Evans and to a lesser degree Contador.

All told, Porte doesn't strike me as someone who is going to keep his mouth shut and is not afraid to say a few controversial things.

Tafi and Riis, two guys who would not even have been allowed to work with Porte under Sky's ZTP rules, which makes you wonder why Sky hired Porte in the first place.

Anyway, it's a gutsy interview from Porte stating his Tafi love and saying that there's a "massive amateur doping problem" when he himself totally dominated the Australian amateur scene in 2008 and then continued to dominate as an amateur under Tafi in Italy.

2008 AUS:

5th National Championship, Road, ITT, Elite, Australia, Ballarat (AUS)
4th National Championship, Road, Elite, Australia, Ballarat (AUS)
1st Stage 2 Tour of Wellington, Masterton (NZL)
1st Stage 2 Tour de Perth, Roleystone (AUS)
1st Stage 3 Tour de Perth, Kalamunda (AUS)
1st General Classification Tour de Perth (AUS)
1st Stage 7 Tour of Tasmania, Penguin (AUS)
1st Stage 9 Tour of Tasmania, Poatina (AUS)
1st General Classification Tour of Tasmania (AUS)
7th Stage 4 Herald Sun Tour, Mt. Buller (AUS)
5th General Classification Herald Sun Tour (AUS)
1st 63 G.P. Comune di Cerreto Guidi Cerreto Guidi

2009 mostly under Tafi:

3rd National Championship, Road, ITT, Elite, Australia, Buninyong (AUS)
3rd Trofeo Alta Valle Del Tevere (ITA)
1st Stage 2 Giro del Friuli Venezia Giulia, Piano D'Arta (ITA)
2nd Trofeo Matteotti, U23 (ITA)
3rd Coppa della Pace (ITA)
1st Stage 4 Baby Giro, Pozzoleone (ITA)
4th Stage 5 Baby Giro, Feltre (ITA)
5th Stage 7 Baby Giro, Carpegna (ITA)
4th Giro della Valli Aretine (ITA)
1st Stage 1 Giro delle Valli Cuneesi nelle Alpi del Mare, Lequio Berria (ITA)
4th General Classification Giro delle Valli Cuneesi nelle Alpi del Mare (ITA)
1st GP Città di Felino (ITA)
1st Gp Citta di Saltino-Vallombrosa 2009

 

[blackcat]

It's mandatory for any Pro when riding a p1ssy provincial race to compare the crowds to "just like the Tour de France", when clearly it's nothing like the Tour

The Australian public just get behind this race so much and really does feel like riding the Tour de France up this climb. It's an incredible feeling,” said Porte

I mean, he'll never win a Tour MTF so for him it's basically the closest he'll get, so I don't blame him for having imagination.

hehhehe, nice wildean drollery there guys <onanism emoji gif that Daniel de Ferrous does not like>