Rigoberto Uran discussion thread.

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Mar 9, 2013
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I just think a top 10 is rememberd more espepcially in history? Of course to us we willremember the stage wins for ever but im on about in general top 5's are probably better. And Ryo u need tke your drugs pal, i can tell you know Fuglsang is a more valuble rider than Riblon will ever be, what do you offer someone more for getting you a stage win or a placement, yes that what i thought.
 
Mar 9, 2013
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Warren Barguil won 2 stages last year in a GT, Scarponi came 4th in the Giro, so answer me who is more valuble what is the better result(who would earn more money if we compared their results)? Maybe now you will admit i talked sense
 
Mar 13, 2009
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TANK91 said:
Warren Barguil won 2 stages last year in a GT, Scarponi came 4th in the Giro, so answer me who is more valuble what is the better result(who would earn more money if we compared their results)? Maybe now you will admit i talked sense
Well depends, Scarponi does have a few other solid results over Barguil including an actual Giro win. If you want to compare stages and overall maybe try comparing Voeckler to Scarponi. Voeckler is a regular for a lumpy stage in a GT, and I'd argue on a comparable wage to Scarponi despite Scarponi having a much better palmares overall.
 
Mar 9, 2013
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Cheers Flamin yes i was only saying what i feel would be rememberd by history more, of course as a cycling fan im aware what we remember, like Intausxti in the Giro what a Giro that was a good placement and a stage. But i stand by that Placement riders are more valuble and in 50 years when we search Wikipedia we will see who top was 10 not who won a legendary stage.:D
 
Mar 9, 2013
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karlboss said:
Well depends, Scarponi does have a few other solid results over Barguil including an actual Giro win. If you want to compare stages and overall maybe try comparing Voeckler to Scarponi. Voeckler is a regular for a lumpy stage in a GT, and I'd argue on a comparable wage to Scarponi despite Scarponi having a much better palmares overall.
Yes good point about the wage but surely the fact even if Scarponi had no Giro win who would be more rememberd? I'd say Scarponi(maybe not because o the TDF and Voeckler history with the race) and even you admit he as a better palmares, wouldd usay even without a Giro? And we know Scarponi is no massive stage winner. By the way im not saying its a big dif either way just feel placements are more valued.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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TANK91 said:
Yes good point about the wage but surely the fact even if Scarponi had no Giro win who would be more rememberd? I'd say Scarponi(maybe not because o the TDF and Voeckler history with the race) and even you admit he as a better palmares, wouldd usay even without a Giro? And we know Scarponi is no massive stage winner. By the way im not saying its a big dif either way just feel placements are more valued.
Voeckler is most remembered for holding the yellow jersey for a day. People remember and get excited about moments, and moments are most likely to occur with stage wins, not with top 10s. It's also why people regard stages not won from a sprint as more valuable, it takes a very special sprint to be remembered similarly.
 
Aug 23, 2012
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roundabout said:
I remember Dekker winning 3 stages in one Tour.

Took me a bit more time to remember that Heras may have been 5th on GC.
I remembered Heras was fifth, but to my great shame i'd forgotten about Dekker :cool: (in my defense it was one of the years my parents decided we should go on holiday during the Tour, and sadly not go to France, so i didn't see all of them).

But Heras was also the best stage racer of his generation after Armstrong wins have been cancelled and no new winners assigned :D ..... Lies, damned lies, statistics and all that.

I't difficult to say how high in GC you should place to equal three stages, and it's not the same for every rider. a guy like Valverde isn't going to be overly excited by anything less than podium in the Tour, but a guy like TJ will be overjoyed to repeat his fifth and would probably much rather do that than win two stages.

In relation to Uran i think him in the Giro and Cav in the Tour is the best solution right now it just makes more sense especially since it also gives Kwiatkowski and Bakelandts some freedom in the Tour.
 
karlboss said:
Well depends, Scarponi does have a few other solid results over Barguil including an actual Giro win. If you want to compare stages and overall maybe try comparing Voeckler to Scarponi. Voeckler is a regular for a lumpy stage in a GT, and I'd argue on a comparable wage to Scarponi despite Scarponi having a much better palmares overall.
Voeckler gets the wage he does because he is French. If he was Italian he would most likely earn less than Scarponi. In terms of sporting merit a stage or two carries more, or at least as much glory as a top 5 but in terms of tv coverage GC riders are worth more. Most people watch mountain stages so anyone who is up there come la crunch gets more money.
 
roundabout said:
I remember Dekker winning 3 stages in one Tour.

Took me a bit more time to remember that Heras may have been 5th on GC.
When did Dekker win the 3 stages? I didn't know and I didn't remember at all.

I remember the work that he did for the chicken in the mountains.

I remember Heras was fith in the Tour and all his high placings. When I re-watch mountain stages from the Tour I still watch him.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
When did Dekker win the 3 stages? I didn't know and I didn't remember at all.

I remember the work that he did for the chicken in the mountains.

I remember Heras was fith in the Tour and all his high placings. When I re-watch mountain stages from the Tour I still watch him.
2000 Erik Dekker.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Escarabajo said:
When did Dekker win the 3 stages? I didn't know and I didn't remember at all.

I remember the work that he did for the chicken in the mountains.

I remember Heras was fith in the Tour and all his high placings. When I re-watch mountain stages from the Tour I still watch him.
mother of god facepalm here
 
Although there is not any election made, likely Rigo will ride the Giro
.
Well, Omega is an strong team, it has big names: Boonen, Cavendish, Tony Martin, Stybar, Kiatlowski, De Gendt, Poels, Bakelants and Rigo...

it is a big team for sprints and for clasic races, specially cobbles ones.

It s as well a good team for 1 week races.

But it pretends to be as well a big team, fighting with SKY, Movistar, Astana, etc,.. in the GT...:confused::rolleyes:

Well, not in the Tour, as they are going to win stages, especially with Cav.

But in the Giro... there is a TTT. If Uran want to win the Giro it would be bad to lose time that day with Quintana, Purito, Evans, Porte, Basso, Scarponi...that means: Movistar, BMC, SKY, Kathousa, Astana...for sure with strong teams for the TTT.

Omega has been one of the best teams on that, but, with Tony Martin, Chavanel and Kiatlowski especially, and with other strong riders, but that others are not good in the mountains...

So the question is: Wich team Omega will bring to the Giro??: With Brambilla, Verona and others young riders is not possible to do a good TTT, at least one of De Gendt, Tony Martin or Kiatloskwki should go to make a good TTT, and later be strong in the mountains as well. Poels, Bakelants, could be good in the TTT, but it is not the same.

But, if Rigo ride Giro, the others are supossed to be on the Tour...

It would be difficul to ask De Gendt spend half a season to help Uran in the Giro, when De Gendt was 3rd in the Giro that Rigo was 7th. For Poels or Kiatlowski would be similar...good riders, but as domestiques??

I would like to see that, becouse I think Rigo is a very strong rider, but I just see those riders as domestiques for Rigo if Rigo is as last year fighteen for the podium, and this year with Quintana, Porte, Purito,... is going to be difficult.

Actually Rigo doesnt need a strong team, except for the TTT, but we seaw in the Vuelta that Basso lost there half the Vuelta in the first day.
 
Taxus4a said:
Snipped here and there....

So the question is: Wich team Omega will bring to the Giro??: With Brambilla, Verona and others young riders is not possible to do a good TTT, at least one of De Gendt, Tony Martin or Kiatloskwki should go to make a good TTT, and later be strong in the mountains as well. Poels, Bakelants, could be good in the TTT, but it is not the same.
With quite a bit of low hanging fruit for sprinters in the first part of the Giro, chances are Cav will go as well. If he takes part that should solve the TTT issue for Uran imo. Of course that creates another GC related problem with protection of Uran on these flat stages. Assuming he doesn't end up losing time and/or crashes, the main task will be to hang unto Sky's train in the mountains and sprint against Porte/J-Rod/Quintana etc in the last km or so.

Top 5 for Uran imo. Beating Porte, J-Rod and Quintana will be very tough.
 
Dazed and Confused said:
With quite a bit of low hanging fruit for sprinters in the first part of the Giro, chances are Cav will go as well. If he takes part that should solve the TTT issue for Uran imo. Of course that creates another GC related problem with protection of Uran on these flat stages. Assuming he doesn't end up losing time and/or crashes, the main task will be to hang unto Sky's train in the mountains and sprint against Porte/J-Rod/Quintana etc in the last km or so.

Top 5 for Uran imo. Beating Porte, J-Rod and Quintana will be very tough.
You are right about that. In the Tour Froome, Contador and Nibali are better than him. So it looks like top 5 as well. So I'd take top 5 at the Tour instead of top five at the Giro. Especially since they brought him to get some presence in the GC at the Tour.
 
Dazed and Confused said:
With quite a bit of low hanging fruit for sprinters in the first part of the Giro, chances are Cav will go as well. If he takes part that should solve the TTT issue for Uran imo. Of course that creates another GC related problem with protection of Uran on these flat stages. Assuming he doesn't end up losing time and/or crashes, the main task will be to hang unto Sky's train in the mountains and sprint against Porte/J-Rod/Quintana etc in the last km or so.

Top 5 for Uran imo. Beating Porte, J-Rod and Quintana will be very tough.
Of course Porte has been very strong in his first time in the Giro, his first time as well in a GT, whern he finished 7 th, he was starting still in cycling, and that was amazing... well, but he has never did again something like that, he has been very strong in 1 week, but he must show the same for 3 weeks.

If Cavs go to the Giro, the team for the mountains wiil be quite bad, and he will be quite alone in the flat, but I agrre the train for Cavs could do well in the TTT, but without Tony, Kiatlowski and De Gent, not very well.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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Dazed and Confused said:
Top 5 for Uran imo. Beating Porte, J-Rod and Quintana will be very tough.
I think he has a better chance at the Giro though. I have a feeling that the Giro climbs will not suit Porte because of the difference in how they are raced (pedestrianish for awhile, then all out explosion by the sprint climbers) so he could realistically podium if luck goes his way (a crash by Purito, Quintana). Can't see him doing as well at the tour, but I am probably wrong :eek:
 
I'd say he has a better chance of a podium finish at the Giro than Porte.

Porte is getting over-hyped due to his short stage racing form, but GT's are a different kettle of fish.

Porte will fade away and Uran will most likely fight for 3rd.
 
Escarabajo said:
You are right about that. In the Tour Froome, Contador and Nibali are better than him. So it looks like top 5 as well. So I'd take top 5 at the Tour instead of top five at the Giro. Especially since they brought him to get some presence in the GC at the Tour.
After Cav's performance at the tour in '13, I think it will be all in for him in France this year. Sadly no space for Uran. Powerstruggle etc. Giro - Vuelta double is on the cards for the Colombian instead. As a captain. Not bad. Next year who knows.

Cav will likely leave the Giro early giving Uran all the shine afterwards.

Taxus4a said:
Of course Porte has been very strong in his first time in the Giro, his first time as well in a GT, whern he finished 7 th, he was starting still in cycling, and that was amazing... well, but he has never did again something like that, he has been very strong in 1 week, but he must show the same for 3 weeks.

If Cavs go to the Giro, the team for the mountains wiil be quite bad, and he will be quite alone in the flat, but I agrre the train for Cavs could do well in the TTT, but without Tony, Kiatlowski and De Gent, not very well.
I have little doubt Porte will be brutal in the Giro. If Cav goes to the Giro, the Steppers will automatically place top 3 in the TTT imo.

gustienordic said:
I think he has a better chance at the Giro though. I have a feeling that the Giro climbs will not suit Porte because of the difference in how they are raced (pedestrianish for awhile, then all out explosion by the sprint climbers) so he could realistically podium if luck goes his way (a crash by Purito, Quintana). Can't see him doing as well at the tour, but I am probably wrong :eek:
Porte has no problem with pace going up and down himself imo, so the question becomes Sky's overall capabilities. Judging the Basque country race last year, they should be able to put a team together which can control the action deep into the key stages. Vasil and Henao might be key.

the asian said:
I'd say he has a better chance of a podium finish at the Giro than Porte.

Porte is getting over-hyped due to his short stage racing form, but GT's are a different kettle of fish.

Porte will fade away and Uran will most likely fight for 3rd.
Everything is possible, but you are likely underestimating the Tassie.
 
Porte was impresive some days in the Tour as a domestique, yes, but he took it easy some days as the second ITT. If he would gave his best that day, he could have won, but he took a rest to help other days...Froome was impresive as domestique of Wiggins, becouse he was second helping him...strong all the days in all kind of stages, in the Vuelta as well.

Porte has been impresive in one week races, becouse he is a good time trialist, but Uran has been 7th (starting injured) and second in the Giro as a domestique. In one he helped Cavs, and in another he helped Wiggo. It is not the same that if the team work for you.

That doesnt mean that Porte wouldnt do a great Giro or even won it, he has the TTT, the first ITT, very good for him, and the climb ITT, not bad. He can improve, and he can demostrate he can win as well a GT, of course, he has been impresive since he started cycling, except his second year with Saxo in the mountains, but he was a domestique in both Giro and Tour, and that year he did incredible ITT, maybe better than ever.

But now I d bet that even Evans will finish better in GC.

Porte:

Carrera 2010 2011 2012 2013
Giro de Italia 7º 81º - -
Tour de Francia - 72º 34º 19º
Vuelta a España - - 68º

Rigo:

Giro de Italia - 35° - 7° 2°
Tour de Francia 52° - 24° - -
Vuelta a España - 33° - 29° 27°

Evans:

2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013
Giro de Italia 14º - - - - - - - 5º - - 3º
Tour de Francia - - - 7º 4º 2º 2º 30º 26º 1º 7º 39º
Vuelta a España - Ab. 30º - - 4º - 3º - - - -
 

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