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Rogers quits Tour de Suisse to head to altitude

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rogers-quits-tour-de-suisse-to-head-to-altitude

This stuck me as a very strange article and headline. If accurate, it seems quite odd that a rider who is in the middle of a stage race at a decent level of altitude would quit and go train (presumably not racing miles) at "altitude".

Not the first passage I've read about riders prepping for the Tour by going to altitude, a training methodology that is quite controversial in terms of actual results in most of the scientific literature I've read.

My take? It's simply a euphemism for "packing RBC's and/or doping" before the Tour, and it's so widely understood what's actually happening that they kind of forget how almost comical it can sound as an announcement. I think we're all so inoculated to the sport, jargon and timing that we don't even bat an eyelid when someone announces something like this.

Help me out and tell me I'm wrong. Tell me how it makes training sense to leave a stage race in Switzerland to get altitude training in prep for the Tour. Is it better to taper off at this point depending on your training plan and load up to this point? Is there any way this makes sense?

This is not really a dig on Rogers--everyone's headed for altitude after the Dauphine or TdSuisse, but leaving during the race to do it? Strikes me as blatant avoidance of certain kinds of controls. How am I wrong here?
 
red_flanders said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rogers-quits-tour-de-suisse-to-head-to-altitude

This stuck me as a very strange article and headline. If accurate, it seems quite odd that a rider who is in the middle of a stage race at a decent level of altitude would quit and go train (presumably not racing miles) at "altitude".

Not the first passage I've read about riders prepping for the Tour by going to altitude, a training methodology that is quite controversial in terms of actual results in most of the scientific literature I've read.

My take? It's simply a euphemism for "packing RBC's and/or doping" before the Tour, and it's so widely understood what's actually happening that they kind of forget how almost comical it can sound as an announcement. I think we're all so inoculated to the sport, jargon and timing that we don't even bat an eyelid when someone announces something like this.

Help me out and tell me I'm wrong. Tell me how it makes training sense to leave a stage race in Switzerland to get altitude training in prep for the Tour. Is it better to taper off at this point depending on your training plan and load up to this point? Is there any way this makes sense?

This is not really a dig on Rogers--everyone's headed for altitude after the Dauphine or TdSuisse, but leaving during the race to do it? Strikes me as blatant avoidance of certain kinds of controls. How am I wrong here?

This is due to the well-documented lack of mountains in Switzerland.
 
i thought it was a strange headline but this is a strange sport.

i tend to think that he really intends to move to elevation for a few weeks before the tour. if he were doing something clandestine it would raise fewer red flags to fake gastrointestinal distress (food poisoning).

there's a difference between racing tds at altitude and training on his own. the preferred protocol now seems to be "live hi, train lo" ie live and sleep at altitude but train at lower elevation. he couldn't really accomplish this in a controlled way while doing a stage race.

EDIT: IMO altitude training is over-rated, might be worth 2-3 percent hematocrit change
 
Mar 13, 2009
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last time on the main forum, when there was a thread on Cameron Meyer, Rogers used his tweet power in the mode of StrongArm and Wigans, to bag folks on fora.

So beware. Rogers' may just send a tweet your way.
 
red_flanders said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rogers-quits-tour-de-suisse-to-head-to-altitude

This stuck me as a very strange article and headline. If accurate, it seems quite odd that a rider who is in the middle of a stage race at a decent level of altitude would quit and go train (presumably not racing miles) at "altitude".

Not the first passage I've read about riders prepping for the Tour by going to altitude, a training methodology that is quite controversial in terms of actual results in most of the scientific literature I've read.

My take? It's simply a euphemism for "packing RBC's and/or doping" before the Tour, and it's so widely understood what's actually happening that they kind of forget how almost comical it can sound as an announcement. I...
You have a good point. But I also think he is getting a potential "alibi" for the Bio Passport fluctuations.
 
Oct 25, 2009
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Rogers' departure looked pre planned to me after a busy early season and digging deep at the ToC -- despite a strong prologue he seemed to be riding hard on the front from early on in the race as if the only intent had been to support Martin/Cav for a while. How long he stayed depended on how he felt and, probably because he was more tired than expected (a la Peter Sagan), the more refreshing altitude work was brought on sooner rather than later.
 
Aug 4, 2009
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All part of the plan A . Mick Rodgers was in vertual Yellow when he crashed out of the tour in 2005.
He then came down with illness so he probably wants to avoid another bout of that.
Relax do mountain work at his own pace and hope he has that form he had back in 2005 he can win it he is good enough.
and of course he missed that crash.
 
It struck me as odd until they mentioned the 40 days of racing so far. I guess that's pretty steep by today's standards. "Training at altitude" is a BS excuse. If he's going to 'train', then the TdS is probably the best training. If he needs rest, just say so.

Maybe they needed the extra man to line up for the start?

Who knows.
 
May 31, 2009
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on the subject of having 40 days of racing in his legs, is that
too much for Roger's?
I actually would like some help here. what's the approx. average number of days of racing in the legs of a rider going into the TDF ?
for a sprinter, like Cavendish or Ferrar-
for an all rounder, like Cancellara or Flecha-
for a climber, like Contador or Sastre-
anyone have a good fix of this?
 

the big ring

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I have a man-cold, so maybe my brain is malfunctioning, but I cannot understand how people actually believe racing non-stop up to the start of the Tour de France is a good training strategy.

It's been my experience that racing induces a peaking effect, whereas training tends to be much lower in terms of intensity, with far more opportunity for recovery and consistent quality, as well as far less chance of an accident.

If I was going to race a 3 week tour, I would be doing lower than race intensity endurance efforts this close, as you do not want to peak for the first week of the tour (as a GC rider - sprinters shine in week 1, so definitely continue to hone your speed). Far better (imo) as a GC rider to go in underdone and ride yourself into form.

Further to this - the pressure and stress of post-stage transfers, shoddy hotels, shoddy hotel food, etc, etc, are all possibilities I would be doing my best to avoid if I was heading to the biggest 3 week tour on the calendar in 2 weeks' time.

Oh wait, no you're right, he's just heading out to pack some more dope in. ffs :rolleyes:
 
Apr 7, 2010
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the big ring said:
If I was going to race a 3 week tour, I would be doing lower than race intensity endurance efforts this close, as you do not want to peak for the first week of the tour (as a GC rider - sprinters shine in week 1, so definitely continue to hone your speed). Far better (imo) as a GC rider to go in underdone and ride yourself into form.

if i was going to race a 3 week tour id be doing all sorts of 'preparation' at the moment
 
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Leaving aside the doping question for the moment. People seem a little ignorant of human physiology. Riding the Tour de Suisse is not the same as altitude training. Depending on what kind of physiological response you are looking for one or the other might be better for your training. Altitude training will give some specific physiological benefits that you are not going to get from racing, even if the race has mountains in it.

Funnily enough in some respects it suggests not doping since if you're doping you probably don't need actual altitude training.
 
the big ring said:
I cannot understand how people actually believe racing non-stop up to the start of the Tour de France is a good training strategy.

You would characterize Rogers season as "racing non-stop up to the start of the Tour", or you are saying someone is advocating this?

I think that's way, way off what anyone is saying. I'm obviously not advocating non-stop racing as a training method, and I'm damn pretty sure no one could characterize Rogers season to this point as non-stop.
 

the big ring

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red_flanders said:
You would characterize Rogers season as "racing non-stop up to the start of the Tour", or you are saying someone is advocating this?

I think that's way, way off what anyone is saying. I'm obviously not advocating non-stop racing as a training method, and I'm damn pretty sure no one could characterize Rogers season to this point as non-stop.

I thought my post provided enough context, but clearly not.

Racing now, for another 4 days, no, is not non-stop. But it's still another 4 days of going deep, at race pace, under riskier race conditions, bringing you 4 days closer to the biggest race on the calendar.

Contrast this with training and you should hopefully get the gist of what I am saying.

What people are saying is training (at altitude or not) is not as useful for him as racing the TdSuisse - clearly Rogers disagrees. I agree with Rogers.
 
the big ring said:
I have a man-cold, so maybe my brain is malfunctioning, but I cannot understand how people actually believe racing non-stop up to the start of the Tour de France is a good training strategy.

It's been my experience that racing induces a peaking effect, whereas training tends to be much lower in terms of intensity, with far more opportunity for recovery and consistent quality, as well as far less chance of an accident.

If I was going to race a 3 week tour, I would be doing lower than race intensity endurance efforts this close, as you do not want to peak for the first week of the tour (as a GC rider - sprinters shine in week 1, so definitely continue to hone your speed). Far better (imo) as a GC rider to go in underdone and ride yourself into form.

Further to this - the pressure and stress of post-stage transfers, shoddy hotels, shoddy hotel food, etc, etc, are all possibilities I would be doing my best to avoid if I was heading to the biggest 3 week tour on the calendar in 2 weeks' time.

Oh wait, no you're right, he's just heading out to pack some more dope in. ffs :rolleyes:

I think you should fill in Contador, Armstrong, Menchov, and a few other TdF contenders on this theory. They're all naively racing right before the Tour. I think they need a copy of Big Ring's Guide to Winning the Tour. ;)

If Rogers disagrees, why did he even start the TdS?
 
the big ring said:
I thought my post provided enough context, but clearly not.

Racing now, for another 4 days, no, is not non-stop. But it's still another 4 days of going deep, at race pace, under riskier race conditions, bringing you 4 days closer to the biggest race on the calendar.

Contrast this with training and you should hopefully get the gist of what I am saying.

What people are saying is training (at altitude or not) is not as useful for him as racing the TdSuisse - clearly Rogers disagrees. I agree with Rogers.

I trust that these guys know what prep is best for them--for the most part.

I don't believe altitude training has been shown to be particularly beneficial--the studies show the jury is out on it. What I do believe is that he's tapering down and fueling up. I don't really get how 2-3 days of tapering makes that much of a difference. It all smells fishy to me, and that's about all I can say about it.
 
Moose McKnuckles said:
I think you should fill in Contador, Armstrong, Menchov, and a few other TdF contenders on this theory. They're all naively racing right before the Tour. I think they need a copy of Big Ring's Guide to Winning the Tour. ;)

If Rogers disagrees, why did he even start the TdS?

Exactly. It's just odd. And altitude training is on par with altitude tents from 8-10 years ago. Complete BS and cover for doping.
 
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Moose McKnuckles said:
I think you should fill in Contador, Armstrong, Menchov, and a few other TdF contenders on this theory. They're all naively racing right before the Tour. I think they need a copy of Big Ring's Guide to Winning the Tour. ;)

If Rogers disagrees, why did he even start the TdS?

FFS, maybe he just looked at the weather forecast and decided he could do better.
 

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