Roman Kreuziger Discussion Thread

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Re: Re:

yaco said:
movingtarget said:
Kreuziger has had a good spring. Very consistent. Wonder if he will get an opportunity to win a stage in the GTs.
I assume he'll be given a chance at the TDF, seeing that A.Yates will have limited support at the race.
Kreuziger may also be his only domestique, so in that case, he will probably be completely isolated when it gets tough
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
Typical Kreuziger results. The man doesn't have the punch or sprint to finish it off, and he's not a strong enough time trial / solo rider like Jungels
Amstel 2013 proves you and others wrong.
 
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Valv.Piti said:
yaco said:
movingtarget said:
Kreuziger has had a good spring. Very consistent. Wonder if he will get an opportunity to win a stage in the GTs.
I assume he'll be given a chance at the TDF, seeing that A.Yates will have limited support at the race.
Kreuziger may also be his only domestique, so in that case, he will probably be completely isolated when it gets tough
Looks like Kreuziger is riding the Giro - So MS is sticking to their original plan of having Howson support A.Yates at the TDF - This is all to do with having a strong team for the TTT to give A.Yates an advantage at the beginning of the TDF - Yates will be lonely.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Valv.Piti said:
yaco said:
movingtarget said:
Kreuziger has had a good spring. Very consistent. Wonder if he will get an opportunity to win a stage in the GTs.
I assume he'll be given a chance at the TDF, seeing that A.Yates will have limited support at the race.
Kreuziger may also be his only domestique, so in that case, he will probably be completely isolated when it gets tough
Looks like Kreuziger is riding the Giro - So MS is sticking to their original plan of having Howson support A.Yates at the TDF - This is all to do with having a strong team for the TTT to give A.Yates an advantage at the beginning of the TDF - Yates will be lonely.
For GC or stage hunting?
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Blanco said:
Kokoso said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Typical Kreuziger results. The man doesn't have the punch or sprint to finish it off, and he's not a strong enough time trial / solo rider like Jungels
Amstel 2013 proves you and others wrong.
This. The man has a huge engine, he just didn't used Haig properly.
Maybe, but I tend to think he simply did not have best day compared to Amstel and Fleche Wallone. If he had legs he would certainly attack and did not wait till the end. He went for certainity of top ten which he's capable of even without his best legs in this race. If he'd attack without his legs, result was unsure.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Red Rick said:
Blanco said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Typical Kreuziger results. The man doesn't have the punch or sprint to finish it off, and he's not a strong enough time trial / solo rider like Jungels
Had he gone instead of Jungels he would've won, because the chase was so great. But then again maybe Haig would've work then, he didn't rode for Krueziger, maybe he would ride against him :p
Had he gone instead of Jungels, Jungels would've brought him back in no time flat if he wanted to, or he would've let him swim at 15s before Alaphilippe finishes everyone off in the last 5km.
Even if Jungels caught with him, which is pure speculation, he probably wouldn't brought him back because Kreuziger would just go on. How do you know Jungels would've brought him back in no time flat anyway? Remember Amstel this year? Group of favourites including Sagan had fulls hand to bring him and Gasparotto back. Or Amstel 2013? Kreuziger in top form is very good rouleur and in long race like this even better.
 
Re: Re:

Kokoso said:
Red Rick said:
Blanco said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Typical Kreuziger results. The man doesn't have the punch or sprint to finish it off, and he's not a strong enough time trial / solo rider like Jungels
Had he gone instead of Jungels he would've won, because the chase was so great. But then again maybe Haig would've work then, he didn't rode for Krueziger, maybe he would ride against him :p
Had he gone instead of Jungels, Jungels would've brought him back in no time flat if he wanted to, or he would've let him swim at 15s before Alaphilippe finishes everyone off in the last 5km.
Even if Jungels caught with him, which is pure speculation, he probably wouldn't brought him back because Kreuziger would just go on. How do you know Jungels would've brought him back in no time flat anyway? Remember Amstel this year? Group of favourites including Sagan had fulls hand to bring him and Gasparotto back. Or Amstel 2013? Kreuziger in top form is very good rouleur and in long race like this even better.
Yeah, maybe.

But Jungels is better on that part of the course.
 
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
No it doesn't prove me wrong Kokoso. That was 1 race, just after a course change, where the favorites didn't really know what to do with that course.

It's just like Poels winning LBL. He still is no classics man (to me).
Looking at his results in the spring he is obviously someone who can compete and get good results in the hillier classics. As of 2018 he is probably a much more convincing one day rider than a stage race rider.
 
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
No it doesn't prove me wrong Kokoso. That was 1 race, just after a course change, where the favorites didn't really know what to do with that course.

It's just like Poels winning LBL. He still is no classics man (to me).
Five top 10 finishes at LBL,
Winner and podium at AGR
Two top 10 finishes at FW
Winner and podium at San Sebastian

"no classics man (to me)"

:eek:
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
No it doesn't prove me wrong Kokoso. That was 1 race, just after a course change, where the favorites didn't really know what to do with that course.

It's just like Poels winning LBL. He still is no classics man (to me).
Five top 10 finishes at LBL,
Winner and podium at AGR
Two top 10 finishes at FW
Winner and podium at San Sebastian

"no classics man (to me)"

:eek:
When did Poels achieve that?

...

D_T's contention wrt Kreuziger and Kokoso's reply:
Kokoso said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Typical Kreuziger results. The man doesn't have the punch or sprint to finish it off, and he's not a strong enough time trial / solo rider like Jungels
Amstel 2013 proves you and others wrong.
 
Re: Re:

Netserk said:
DFA123 said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
No it doesn't prove me wrong Kokoso. That was 1 race, just after a course change, where the favorites didn't really know what to do with that course.

It's just like Poels winning LBL. He still is no classics man (to me).
Five top 10 finishes at LBL,
Winner and podium at AGR
Two top 10 finishes at FW
Winner and podium at San Sebastian

"no classics man (to me)"

:eek:
When did Poels achieve that?
Exactly the point - he hasn't. Kreuziger's classics record is nothing like Poels winning LBL. Poels has 2 top 10 finishes in hilly classics in his whole career.

Kreuziger has loads - he is a hilly classics specialist.
 
So? No one is stating that Kreuziger is not a classics man.

I read the Poels remark more as a single win doesn't prove a point. In this case that Kreuziger "doesn't have the punch or sprint to finish it off, and he's not a strong enough time trial / solo rider like Jungels".
 
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Netserk said:
So? No one is stating that Kreuziger is not a classics man.

I read the Poels remark more as a single win doesn't prove a point. In this case that Kreuziger "doesn't have the punch or sprint to finish it off, and he's not a strong enough time trial / solo rider like Jungels".
It's just nonsense. Kreuziger has eleven top ten finishes in the four biggest hilly classics (Ardennes + San Sebastian). And he has won twice.

For comparision with some noted hilly classics riders during Kreuziger's career. In the same races:

Kwiatkowski has 2 wins from 10 top tens finishes.
Dan Martin has 1 win from 9 top ten finishes.
Purito has 1 win from 19 top ten finishes.

So Kreuziger's overall record is very much in line with the other top hilly classics riders of his generation. He may not be as clinical in converting as Gilbert or Valverde, but his conversion rate stacks up well against pretty much all other contenders who regularly finish in the top 10.
 
Lol, arbitrarily pick out four races, double up the number of wins for Kreuziger, and finally compare him to riders whom the characteristic doesn't match.

As for the one win, here is D_T's words: "That was 1 race, just after a course change, where the favorites didn't really know what to do with that course."
 
Re:

Netserk said:
Lol, arbitrarily pick out four races, double up the number of wins for Kreuziger, and finally compare him to riders whom the characteristic doesn't match.
Nothing arbitrary about it; the four biggest hilly one day races are obvious to any followers of cycling. Ignoring one of Kreuziger's big wins to suit some narrative you have drawn up is pretty weak.

As you are trying to cloud the issue, rather than countering the facts, I'll take that as an acknowledgement that you concede that Kreuziger is not only a classics specialist, but also has the abilities to finish off races, just as well as most of his peers.
 
Yeah, I'm sure you count Aubisque as a Contador win as well... Not that result on the paper matters in a discussion like this one. Kreuziger didn't exhibit either of the qualities in question.

Somehow you still act as if I at any point has written that Kreuziger isn't a classics rider. You really are only 2nd to the Pickle.
 
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Netserk said:
Yeah, I'm sure you count Aubisque as a Contador win as well...

Somehow you still act as if I at any point has written that Kreuziger isn't a classics rider. You really are only 2nd to the Pickle.
I wasn't responding to anything you wrote actually - you just decided to jump in with some tangental nonsense.

I was simply responding to Dekker Tifosi saying that "It's just like Poels winning LBL. He still is no classics man (to me)." Which is incorrect. Kreuziger and Poels have completely different records in the hilly classics. They are not comparable in the slightest.

Kreuziger has both the quanitity of top ten finishes, and the conversion rate to compare with that of some of the best hilly classics riders of his generation. Poels is the typical guy who gets a one off fortunate win. The Hayman of the hilly classics.
 
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Netserk said:
No classics man is a description of Poels. Not Kreuziger.

How. Hard. Is. It. To. Get.
Yes, I understand that. And the previous sentence said "It's just like Poels winning LBL". The implication therefore being that Kreuziger is also not a classics man. Which is what I disagree with.

It seems as though you have come steaming in looking for an argument, without even understanding what you were trying to defend. :eek:
 

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