Roman Kreuziger Discussion Thread

[Kokoso]

That's not what I saw. I get that you're gutted Roman has to ride for Alberto but hey it was his own choice.

No I'm not that's just your feeling.

 

[LaFlorecita]

No I'm not that's just your feeling.

You would not rather see him ride for his own gc?

 

[Kokoso]

You would not rather see him ride for his own gc?

After tomorrow no, I just wished he could go for possible podium. After today yes, I wished Kreuziger could go for it. But I'm happy to see that he's really loyal to his leader doing a great job. That's what he is supposed to do at Tour. Only I see that it's slowing him down.

 

[Pulpstar]

The Individual Time Trial will be interesting. If Kreuziger finishes > 30 seconds ahead of Contador then I think come the Alps he may be allowed to go. If the gap is 0 - 30 seconds then it will depend on Contador's sensations. As I've pointed out, I think Team Saxo is equally as strong as Sky - though Froome is stronger than Contador (Certainly for the moment).

Losing Kiriyenka is a loss for Sky today - Movistar and Saxo as teams are looking v strong.

How is Kennaugh, was not a good day for Sky long term. But I think Froome is strong enough for the Alps.

 

[Donkey]

Inside information about what? No, I don't have any inside information. I just watched TV. As another said, Froome chased down attacks and the rest kind of followed him. When Roman take turn in front, Alberto looked in trouble and called him off probably. When Roman took turn on the flat part to the finish, you could see Alberto falling down the group. Kreuziger was good in riding high stable pace.

I didn't have that feeling. But who knows?
Roman also said (on his website) those two in breakway were of no interest for Saxo so they didn't want to chase...

 

[Kokoso]

Roman also said (on his website) those two in breakway were of no interest for Saxo so they didn't want to chase...

He has to be thoughtful of his leader

 

[Gubby Allen]

The Individual Time Trial will be interesting. If Kreuziger finishes > 30 seconds ahead of Contador then I think come the Alps he may be allowed to go. If the gap is 0 - 30 seconds then it will depend on Contador's sensations. As I've pointed out, I think Team Saxo is equally as strong as Sky - though Froome is stronger than Contador (Certainly for the moment).

Losing Kiriyenka is a loss for Sky today - Movistar and Saxo as teams are looking v strong.

How is Kennaugh, was not a good day for Sky long term. But I think Froome is strong enough for the Alps.

Is he a decent time trialler? Who would he rank on a par with, if going full gas on a flat 33km course?

 

[karlboss]

Is he a decent time trialler? Who would he rank on a par with, if going full gas on a flat 33km course?

He's not strong, I'd expect around 30th and drop about 2:30-3 minutes to the Froome. Who would he rank on a par with? Basso?

 

[boringboy]

I didn't have that feeling. But who knows?
Roman also said (on his website) those two in breakway were of no interest for Saxo so they didn't want to chase...

Riis said, on danish website, that he told Roman to stop as Riis wanted to give Fuglsang a chance as he felt he deserved it. Which actually makes a bit of sense, as Saxo might as well save the energy and try to get good ITT out of both Roman and AC.

 

[Swede1]

He's not strong, I'd expect around 30th and drop about 2:30-3 minutes to the Froome. Who would he rank on a par with? Basso?

I didnt think he was that bad. He used to be quite good actually. Recently he hasnt been doing the best of time trials but I would expect him to still finish near the other gc riders like contador and valverde.

 

[karlboss]

I didnt think he was that bad. He used to be quite good actually. Recently he hasnt been doing the best of time trials but I would expect him to still finish near the other gc riders like contador and valverde.

When was he good? In his targetted GT when the TT mattered.
Vuelta 2007 102nd and 32nd
tour 2008 32nd and 21st
tour 2009 52nd
vuelta 2009 63rd and 5th
tour 2010 81st vuelta 73rd
giro 2011 Mtt 5 Itt 15 and you might want to check the strength of that field
tour de france 2011 98th
giro 2012 82nd,

He certainly does better in shorter ones, but his best tdf is still 21st and he seems to be getting weaker.
He looks on form and it is short who knows, 15th?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

He has to be thoughtful of his leader

Correct answer.

I'm still surprised about the level of Contador.

Looks like damage control at this point.

 

[el_angliru]

When was he good? In his targetted GT when the TT mattered.
Vuelta 2007 102nd and 32nd
tour 2008 32nd and 21st
tour 2009 52nd
vuelta 2009 63rd and 5th
tour 2010 81st vuelta 73rd
giro 2011 Mtt 5 Itt 15 and you might want to check the strength of that field
tour de france 2011 98th
giro 2012 82nd,

He certainly does better in shorter ones, but his best tdf is still 21st and he seems to be getting weaker.
He looks on form and it is short who knows, 15th?

7th at the 1st stage of the 2009 Tour (15.5 km TT).

But I agree, his TT results aren't quite as impressive as we would have expected. I think some of us still remember Kreuziger's impressive win at the 2008 Tour de Suisse TT (I certainly do) and therefore consider him a really good time trialist. But he's not among the very best, and he's become worse since 2008-9.

 

[Cimber]

Kreuziger is strong, but sooner or later he will do a "Richie Porte"

 

[JPM London]

Kreuziger is strong, but sooner or later he will do a "Richie Porte"

Kreuziger is strong, but sooner or later Contador will show why he is the team leader.

 

[Ferminal]

Kreuziger is strong, but sooner or later he will do a "Richie Porte"

Does that mean he will win a stage two days later?

 

[Cimber]

Does that mean he will win a stage two days later?

That would be to do a Floyd Landis

 

[Angliru]

Kreuziger will crack in the third week, or even before. He always does.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he's due to crack but he's not the steady force over the course of 3 weeks that Contador is. Even in Contador's current "less than world-beating" form he is certainly worthy of continued support over Kreuziger. Kreuziger has a role and he is filling it well and I hope he continues in this form through out the Tour. If he does he will be worthy of having a team ride for him at the Tour in the future, just not a team that includes Contador. Ultimately it makes no sense to invest one's efforts in a rider that is unproven at the elite level of the Tour's gc (as a real contender) when you have a rider like Contador at your disposal. There is a much higher chance (but not a certainty) that Kreuziger will have a bad day that will put all that effort to waste.

 

[Angliru]

Actually you've said something different fisrt time, now you're changing your original words. Mess. Figure out what you want to say first.
And last time he trully sort of cracked, but it's good not to forget that he was ill that Tour, what can affect your performance, see? And he still lost three minutes there what isn't most terrible cracking. And above all, that wasn't stage after multiple mountain stages In Giro 2011 he kept his level pretty well, did you forget? And he went pretty well up Mt. Ventoux in 20th stage in Tour 2009, actually it was his bet mountatin perormance that Tour and it came in third week obviously.

You are missing or choosing to ignore the point being made repeatedly: With all the promise that Kreuziger had shown years ago where is the progress. To make it simple, compare the career arcs of Kreuziger and his former teammate and rival Nibali. That should be the answer to any question you have regarding the less than enthusiastic response you've been getting for Kreuziger deserving more of a free reign instead of his super-domestique role in service to Contador.

 

[Angliru]

The common sense says Kreuziger must be managed as a protected rider like Alberto.

I agree is too early to form a judgment for one stage, but Roman's season has been better. Contador perhaps have credit in recovery area and 3rd week performances but better having two cards than one.


Also Contador can't score points and everything that is not a GC victory contributes nothing to him.

If I were Bjarne Contador would be my agressive card and Roman my conservative card.

This would be the ideal strategy considering Saxo/Tinkoffs unique situation with Contador in terms of points but only if Contador's form continues to improve. Unfortunately any aggression by Contador will be quickly marked by all of the gc contending teams. It's almost a Catch-22 for Saxo: Contador almost needs to ride conservatively while his form builds towards its peak while Kreuziger is in the form to ride aggressively but with his history there is a great deal of risk involved in that tactic. If he blows up after a failed effort then any hope of a decent gc is lost along with those points and Contador would be isolated having to pick and choose what eventual attacks to respond to, avoiding the potential for blowing himself up in the process.

 

[Angliru]

I don't think that there's quite a difference between "to crack" and "can't maintain his performance at yesterday's level" (and I don't think it alone as you can see above). For example Tejay cracked yesterday. But whatever.

Today another great performance taking care of again quite weaker Alberto. He could probably go with Fuglsang and Martin, but had to make a pace for Alberto, who I think was depleted after Quintana's attacks.

I think you are seeing what you want to see and not what is actually occurring. If Contador were truly struggling he'd have spent a bit of time further back in the pack. He was always near the front ready to respond to the aggression that was taking place. A struggling rider would've been yo-yoing off the back. Kreuziger is riding a strong race and deserves the accolades and he is definitely in fine form.

Edit: I am referring to the action on Stage 9.

 

[Ferminal]

That would be to do a Floyd Landis

 

[Boeing]

I don't think that there's quite a difference between "to crack" and "can't maintain his performance at yesterday's level" (and I don't think it alone as you can see above). For example Tejay cracked yesterday. But whatever.

Today another great performance taking care of again quite weaker Alberto. He could probably go with Fuglsang and Martin, but had to make a pace for Alberto, who I think was depleted after Quintana's attacks.

Your observations are as if that stage was a one day classic. you know this is a GT right?

 

[Kokoso]

There is a much higher chance (but not a certainty) that Kreuziger will have a bad day that will put all that effort to waste.

Well Alberto already had a bad day at stage 8, that's certainity. If Kreuziger wasn't there, maybe all the effort could have been in waste alredy (If we are talking about actually winning Tour de France).

 

[Kokoso]

You are missing or choosing to ignore the point being made repeatedly: With all the promise that Kreuziger had shown years ago where is the progress. To make it simple, compare the career arcs of Kreuziger and his former teammate and rival Nibali. That should be the answer to any question you have regarding the less than enthusiastic response you've been getting for Kreuziger deserving more of a free reign instead of his super-domestique role in service to Contador.

Have you even read the discussion? Looks like not. That absolutely wasn't theyoungest's point. And I've never demanded more freedom for Kreuziger, I just said this "But I'm happy to see that he's really loyal to his leader doing a great job. That's what he is supposed to do at Tour. " So I really don't understand what you mean, sorry.