Ronde van Vlaanderen: October 18th, 2020

Page 27 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Everyone is calling today's race boring but it seem to happen in one them most years so its ironic compared to the posts and the fact these are two of the most anticipated races of the year.
I didn't find it boring at all..... and I don't understand people that did.

It was the epic showdown to the classics season we had all anticipated, complete with an insane Alaphilippe mishap.
 
I didn't find it boring at all..... and I don't understand people that did.

It was the epic showdown to the classics season we had all anticipated, complete with an insane Alaphilippe mishap.
Exactly seeing those two sprint full ball trying to drop each other on every climb like a PCM game would be epic but its just unrealistic. I still would prefer the epic grinds of these races and climbs like Angrilu over some of the shorter punchier races.
 
Jan 18, 2020
76
48
730
Great head to head race, and probably the first of many in these types of races. Hopefully they both keep doing their own thing (MVDP with the three disciplines and Wout with the extreme versatility on the road) and they can battle it out with both at full strength in the Cross WC's and Spring Classics in 2021.
 
Jan 8, 2020
37
34
630
They can't disappear into thin air. Rider should also take care to pass them with sufficient margin, but intead they like to get every cm of drag they can get.
They need to be away, far away, out of the f-ing way, not pull over one meter to the side before a 3 up break in the throes of compitition, concentrating utterly on winning the race!

These dang vehicles' drivers seem to have forgotten that they are just support and not the race itself. And there are simply too many of them for the safety of these pro events. It's becoming a farce with all the major races mutilated, because some idiot driver doesn't have the sense to stay sufficiently out of the way.

A rider shouldn't ever be made to "take the care" to pass them, let alone at the most critical point in the race. Rather drivers should get the hell out of the picture whenever stopping. The last thing a rider should have to do is worry about support vehicles taking them down! It's become an obstacle course.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Volderke
They need to be away, far away, out of the f-ing way, not pull over one meter to the side before a 3 up break in the throes of compitition, concentrating utterly on winning the race!

These dang vehicles' drivers seem to have forgotten that they are just support and not the race itself. And there are simply too many of them for the safety of these pro events. It's becoming a farce with all the major races mutilated, because some idiot driver doesn't have the sense to stay sufficiently out of the way.

A rider shouldn't ever be made to "take the care" to pass them, let alone at the most critical point in the race. Rather drivers should get the hell out of the picture whenever stopping. The last thing a rider should have to do is worry about support vehicles taking them down! It's become an obstacle course.
Did you even see the incident? The moto was over as far as it could have been. The road had straight lines of sight. I don't know how it could be more obvious that Alaphillipe should have paid better attention.

[URL="http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=35+km+to+go:+Julian+Alaphilippe+Crashes+Into+Motorbike&dashboard=tour-of-flanders&id=xjQiLyB9zPc&yr=2020[/URL]"]www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=35+km+to+go:+Julian+Alaphilippe+Crashes+Into+Motorbike&dashboard=tour-of-flanders&id=xjQiLyB9zPc&yr=2020[/URL]
 
WVA pulled a fast one by waiting till the last second before swerving to the left to avoid the motor-bike. MVDP just managed to avoid a wreck, and poor ol' JA had no idea what was coming. Wout is, in my opinion, a bit of a jack-ass. He whines when things don't go the way he wants, but that's really here nor there.
The guy leading the trio knew the moto in front was basically at a standstill. He waited till the last second before swerving, no doubt wondering if the riders behind were paying attention.
 
Jan 8, 2020
37
34
630
Did you even see the incident? The moto was over as far as it could have been. The road had straight lines of sight. I don't know how it could be more obvious that Alaphillipe should have paid better attention.

[URL="http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=35+km+to+go:+Julian+Alaphilippe+Crashes+Into+Motorbike&dashboard=tour-of-flanders&id=xjQiLyB9zPc&yr=2020[/URL]"]www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=35+km+to+go:+Julian+Alaphilippe+Crashes+Into+Motorbike&dashboard=tour-of-flanders&id=xjQiLyB9zPc&yr=2020[/URL]
Of course I saw the race. Why was that motorcycle so close as to allow Van Aert to be in its slipstream in the first place? That's against the rules number one and secondly what was the driver thinking in all but pulling up like that whilst staying in the way? He stayed in the way because he was not off the road. That motorcycle (and the others) should never have been so close to the trio to begin with. While any driver prior to slowing down or pulling over to let the riders go by whilst still on the roadside, should first get about 70 meters ahead before doing so. This would have allowed each rider plenty of heads-up to pass, but it didn't happen that way and the result was disastrous for both rider and race. Regardless of what Alaphilippe was doing at the time, no rider should simply ever be put in that position if the drivers are doing their jobs correctly. The driver, not the rider, was badly positioned. This must be clear or else the riders play second fiddle, which is patently ridiculous. The point being, I stress, that it isn't the riders' duty to stay out of the way of the motorbikes, but the other way around - at all times. The riders have enough to worry about just managing in the peleton and dealing with the stress of the race. Let's not add to it by intrusive motorbikes. We have been seeing this a lot lately unfortunately.
 
Last edited:
WVA pulled a fast one by waiting till the last second before swerving to the left to avoid the motor-bike. MVDP just managed to avoid a wreck, and poor ol' JA had no idea what was coming. Wout is, in my opinion, a bit of a jack-ass. He whines when things don't go the way he wants, but that's really here nor there.
The guy leading the trio knew the moto in front was basically at a standstill. He waited till the last second before swerving, no doubt wondering if the riders behind were paying attention.
The motorbike was WvA's target to get some draft. The moment they got close, it slowed down.
If you think WvA is a jackass, you must think that Alaphilippe is a super-jackass. He swerves all the time with guys in his wheel, avoiding potholes, road furniture,... at the last minute.

I still don't get it why people lay blame at riders, and even try to suggest that riders are trying to crash their adversaries on purpose. It requires an evil mind.
 
Jan 8, 2020
37
34
630
Van Aert admitted he was taking the motorbike's slipstream. I don't really blame him for that, as any rider put in such a position on instinct takes advantage of the draft. Pulling out of the way as the Belgian did, if certainly not intending to make his rivals crash, at the same time wasn't helpful. But the real issue was the motorbike being in the way and that is only the dirver's fault.
 
Reactions: Volderke
Oct 31, 2018
67
55
1,780
Rubbish race but glad MVDP won it
How can you say that was a rubbish race? :rolleyes:

If they would have waited until the last time Kwaremont/Paterberg everyone would have complained because of the boring predictability. Not to mention the fact that if they had waited, they'd be chasing at least one DQS rider who would have jumped sooner.
It's not their fault Ala crashed.

If you ask me two big champions went all in. Beautiful race.
They both deserved to win.
 
If I'm driving down the road and a car in front of me slows down to stop, if I don't pay attention to what is going on in front of me I will crash into it. Guess what, it's my fault. No different with riders on bikes whether in competition or social cycling.
 
Van Aert admitted he was taking the motorbike's slipstream. I don't really blame him for that, as any rider put in such a position on instinct takes advantage of the draft. Pulling out of the way as the Belgian did, if certainly not intending to make his rivals crash, at the same time wasn't helpful. But the real issue was the motorbike being in the way and that is only the dirver's fault.
I think this is the real problem. Riders will look to draft behind motos and cars any chance they get, and its inherently dangerous. And there's literally no reason to be following a vehicle except for trying to gain an unfair advantage. It should be against the rules at all times and punished accordingly, then it would soon stop, and the risk of crashes would be reduced.
 
Jan 8, 2020
37
34
630
If I'm driving down the road and a car in front of me slows down to stop, if I don't pay attention to what is going on in front of me I will crash into it. Guess what, it's my fault. No different with riders on bikes whether in competition or social cycling.
No this isn't an issue of "driving down the road". It's a bike race and the motorcycle drivers, while there for the security of the race, indeed need to stay out of its way. But clearly that was not the case. Sure riders normally even watch out for the race "traffic", however, the onus is on that "traffic" to stay clear of the action.
 
Reactions: Volderke
Jan 8, 2020
37
34
630
I think this is the real problem. Riders will look to draft behind motos and cars any chance they get, and its inherently dangerous. And there's literally no reason to be following a vehicle except for trying to gain an unfair advantage. It should be against the rules at all times and punished accordingly, then it would soon stop, and the risk of crashes would be reduced.
Sure but my point was that the motorbike/s must be sufficiently up the road, or else the rider will either be forced to take a different line (when the road should be his to decide which one is best) or else be "forced" to take the slipstream. In this particualar case Van Aert needed to take a right line, since the road was curving in that direction. All the more reason the motorbikes should have been further away and not obsructing the best line at the time to take.
 
To me it looked like the moto was at fault, because it should not slow down like that exactly on the side where the riders would be. Alaphilippe was at fault, because he did not pay enough attention. Van Aert was at fault because he was dragging very close and then when swerving not giving the riders behind much of a chance to do the same.
In the end it was a sad and annoying incident, one of many where you think "this could have been avoided" and lessons should be learned for the future - by the moto drivers and the riders. But finally it just happened, the outcome could have been worse I suppose. It was Alaphilippe's last race of the season anyway, so hopefully he will just recover well and be able to do another RVV in stripes next year.

Edit: Maybe things swould have been different had Alaphilippe been in front of van der Poel. :hushed: Their sizes did not exactly help here I guess.
 
Reactions: Bolder
Jan 8, 2020
37
34
630
I think it is a question of "degrees" of being at fault. Given again it is not a normal traffic situation between mortorized drivers, but a bike race in which the "traffic" should at all times remain safely out of the riders' path; the degree of Alaphilippe's and Van Aert's fault is trumped by that of the motorcycle driver. Sure Alaphilippe should have looked up (as any rider needs to be ever vigilant), but he should not have "had to look up" at a badly positioned motorbike. Simply because a motorbike should never be badly positioned during a race. Idem for Van Aert. He should not have taken the draft. But the motorcycle should never have made that an option by being right in front of him.

And then, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the motorbikes always supposed to stay on the left when either relenting or stopping?
 
Reactions: MartinGT
Man, tough call as to blame etc. Plenty to go around.

Yes, the moto should have been WAY FARTHER away from the riders, ideally on the left.
Yes, WvA should have swung to the center earlier
Yes, Alaf should have been paying attention.
Yes WvA should had called out "MOTO" or something as a warning.

I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian and say that, primarily, WvA should have given the moto a wider berth. It looks like he had plenty of time/space to do so, but in the heat of a breakaway, he was probably just focusing on pulling etc. I don't blame him for trying to get a draft but you need to be really careful. I'm amazed we don't have more crashes like this, especially when riders are trying to come back to the peloton after a flat etc. I see some riders get within 20 cm of another team's car all the time...
 
Last edited:
Jan 8, 2020
37
34
630
Man, tough call as to blame etc. Plenty to go around.

Yes, the moto should have been WAY FARTHER away from the riders, ideally on the left.
Yes, WvA should have swung to the center earlier
Yes, Alaf should have been paying attention.
Yes WvA should had called out "MOTO" or something as a warning.

I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian and say that, primarily, WvA should have given the moto a wider berth. It looks like he had plenty of time/space to do so, but in the heat of a breakaway, he was probably just focusing on pulling etc. I don't blame him for trying to get a draft but you need to be really careful. I'm amazed we don't have more crashes like this, especially when riders are trying to come back to the peloton after a flat etc. I see some riders get within 20 cm of another team's car all the time...
The only thing I'm contrary to is the notion that WvA should have given the motorbike a wider berth (even if strictly speaking, yes), for the first reason on your list (as I too have stressed). That error to me trumps all the rest. The riders have priority, not the motorbikes, and when it comes to chosing the best line it is their prerogative. In this case the motorbike was on the right where that best line was, not to mention he should have been way further ahead/away and above all not there in that moment. Plus it caused Alaphilippe to "have to look out for something", he shouldn't have had to do.
 
Last edited:

ASK THE COMMUNITY

Latest posts