Ryder Hesjedal Discussion Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

I used the wrong words. I meant that normally he has got a chance. I don't say he could beat Contador or anyone from the main favorites, but he could with a bit of luck, like in may. After the Giro we can't say, that he has got no chance. He was strong almost everywhere. Ok, not versus Contador, or Andy, or Evans, but he still won the Giro.

After the Giro, we can't say that he has got no chance at any given Grand Tour in isolation.

However, this is not a GT in isolation, this is a GT where others like Evans, Menchov, Nibali, Vandenbroeck, Gesink, Sánchez, Wiggins and Schleck come better prepared and with less mileage in their legs (non-injured status pending). We don't know how deep Ryder had to go to win that Giro.
If Hesjedal was a demon TT rider I'd say, sure, the Tour's parcours means he's in with a shout. But while he may have been able, with the motivation and the race on the line, to put in a career best ITT to win the Giro, there he was competing against the likes of Rodríguez, Scarponi and Basso. Competing against Menchov, Evans and Wiggins is a whole different kettle of fish. I don't see him dropping THEM in the mountains with the whole Giro in his legs.

The 2009 Giro and Tour had a fairly light route, but Denis Menchov came nowhere near doing the double. I think that the 2009-vintage Denis Menchov is a better GT rider than Ryder Hesjedal.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

A previous occasion when someone decided to continue the form of their life from Giro to the Tour it was Ricco' ...

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I tend to agree that putting in an exceptionally strong Tour performance is unlikely after putting one in the Giro. And being "in the form of his life" right now, weeks after the Giro and weeks before the Tour probably isn't ideal.

 

[Cervelo77]

I think a top 10 is possible for Hesjedal, but given the parcours and amount of work he did in the Giro, I can't see him making the podium. VDV isn't really a great alternative option, so I imagine if Hesjedal is going well he'll be the team leader, otherwise it will swing to one of the others with Hesjedal in support.

Contador would have been on the podium of TDF in 2011 (and subsequently stripped ) if not for his habit of crashing into and being crashed into that tour. That is to say, you can do a great Giro and a good TDF, but you have to be super human. (Or suitably enhanced -- I'm looking at you Ricco).

 

[jens_attacks]

A previous occasion when someone decided to continue the form of their life from Giro to the Tour it was Ricco' ...

good news then but i really doubt ryder can entertain us in such a nice manner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=w1qymrsCezI#t=1457s

up uhlala hesjedal...uhlala fusée hesjedal..qui reste tout le monde surplace...oh incroyable...oh la fusée est parti



i say go for it ryder.
but i really doubt he can make the top 20,he will fade away in the 3rd week.

 

[Eric8-A]

I hope this means JV will leave Tyler at home and put Danielson as the 2nd tier GC rider on the team.

With VDV, Stetina, Danielson and Martin for support, Ryder is certainly top 5 with a bullet!

That's a problem I'm seeing right now. In previous years, I've been able to predict Garmin's tour lineup with no problem and maybe only be off by a rider or two. But this year, with Ryder's win at the Giro, the team might have higher GC ambitions at the Tour. I highly doubt they'll leave Tyler out of their roster. But if they do, he might not have an actual train with him, and may only rely on Zabriskie to pull for the final K's, Millar to drive the final kilometer or two, and then a guy like Koldo. Robbie and Alex did the Giro. Two rider brought to the squad to beef up their leadout train. But who knows if they'll bring them back. If Ryder was the man that was going to go for GC, and Vaughters really wanted to give him all the support he needed, and ideal squad would be:

Ryder
Vandevelde
Danielson
Zabriskie
Millar
Martin
Le Mevel
Dekker
Talansky

Which would be a team that doesn't have the job of also working for a sprinter.

 

[Froome19]

Ryder
Vandevelde
Danielson
Zabriskie
Millar
Martin
Le Mevel
Dekker
Talansky

Which would be a team that doesn't have the job of also working for a sprinter.

Looking at that I am afraid the only rider who cant be assure a place there is Dekker so it is up to him to give JV a headache by putting up a good TDS perfomance. Ryder, Vandevelde, Danielson and Millar must be certainties and so must le Mevel due to his nationality and as he didnt race the Giro. Zabirskie is in super form and can surely have a go at the TT and he is an incredibly useful rider if they need to work on the front and Martin and Talansky both are immense talents. Farrar probably sat down and agreed with JV he would go to the Tour at the start of the season and his Giro was short lived so it would be difficult for JV to say no, yet I do not think that Farrar can take on Greipel, kittel and Cav and I can not imagine JV will sacrifice more than one of the above riders to take with someone like Koldo. Looking at the squads the leadouts may be bossed by non other than Argos Shimano as the other teams seem to all have GC priorities on their mind, though Lotto and Sky will provide some half hearted support. Yet Greipel needs a lot of work to win it for him in Gts as his positioning is so bad.

 

[Master50]

Ryders chances are not limited by his talent which is underestimated but by his endurance and recovery. He has demonstrated he is good in the 3rd week and has some real depth. It wasn't such a longshot at the Giro as the initial odds indicated and underestimating his Tour chances could work in his favour except he has proven his consistency. Even years ago he still managed fairly good GC results after working for another leader. If his body is ready he will be a real contender in GC. That and I think this year has the most wide open GC race we will see for the last few editions. No one looks to be flying and so far only Evans looks ready We will have a much better idea by the end of week 2 but adding another climber would be prudent if they hope for a real GC shot. On Garmin Ryder is the only real hope for yellow.

 

[webvan]

No one flying? Tune it to the Dauphine! Ryder looking to lose 5+ minutes to Wiggo Im afraid and unlikely to drop him in the mountains. Having said that, you're right he's Garmin's best asset.

 

[joe1265]

after watching the TdS, I'd say JV would be better served to go all in with Ryder on GC and Zabriskie&Co for the TT's (plus domestique work) and forgoe contesting the sprints. Pack the squad with as much climbing talent and workers as you can.

With Nibali leaving Liq next year, I can't imagine them giving him heaps of support, especially with Sagan being so strong.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nah, send Danielson as the GC man and give Ryder a free hand, like Pellizotti was in the 2009 Tour. If he's feeling good, stay up there. If he's not, let go, lose time and go for a stage or the GPM, as that's of more value than any finish outside of the top 10. Don't try to hold on to any position other than an absolutely top one.

 

[Master50]

No one flying? Tune it to the Dauphine! Ryder looking to lose 5+ minutes to Wiggo Im afraid and unlikely to drop him in the mountains. Having said that, you're right he's Garmin's best asset.

Certainly since my last post Wiggo is showing his form and his TT ability is likely his big gun for the race. He is my current favorite for a great tour but I still expect more from Ryder than some are allowing. Barring injury I have Ryder top 5 with podium possibilities.

 

[Eric8-A]

Certainly since my last post Wiggo is showing his form and his TT ability is likely his big gun for the race. He is my current favorite for a great tour but I still expect more from Ryder than some are allowing. Barring injury I have Ryder top 5 with podium possibilities.

And a stage win

 

[Parrulo]

Certainly since my last post Wiggo is showing his form and his TT ability is likely his big gun for the race. He is my current favorite for a great tour but I still expect more from Ryder than some are allowing. Barring injury I have Ryder top 5 with podium possibilities.

so pretty much hesjedal to perform better then contador on a giro- tour double attempt right?

sounds legit

 

[The Hitch]

so pretty much hesjedal to perform better then contador on a giro- tour double attempt right?

sounds legit

Contadors giro was half in the mountains, had something like 7 mtfs, he podiumed 8 stages i think and then he hurt hisself in a crash, got floored by Karpets, lost 2 minutes on the first weekend and probably went overboard with his attacks pre alpes for little gain.

which would go a long way to explain why The Great One got a lower rank at the Tour than Hejsdal who won a easier Giro might could just get (and probably wont)

 

[Parrulo]

but the difference in class and talent is too big for hesjedal to do a similar result even without all those set backs imo

 

[elf1978]

Three Times the Fun for Hejedal?

Since this year's Giro was had significantly more mountains than the upcoming Tour, all signs point to a pretty good chance that Ryder Hesjedal will be able to crack the top 5 next month.
I know that Garmin will be working for Tom Danielson, but given the TT-heavy course, if Tommy D falters even a bit, and Ryder maintains his excellent form, chances are Johnathan Vaughters could very well change this setup, and get Maillot Jaune for the tough Canadian.
Besides since this is the 25th anniverary of Stephen Roche's Giro/Tour/World Championship triple, how special would it be to have another native english speaker repeat the feat?

 

[Alex III]

Ryder put his Stage 7 pink jersey (signed) on ebay with all proceeds going to his charity to support cycling in Canada.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ryder-Hesje...215?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1eb176df.

It went up last night (closes on the 20th) and is at $6,600 already, a bit out of my price range...

 

[pedaling squares]

so pretty much hesjedal to perform better then contador on a giro- tour double attempt right?

sounds legit

I don't know how Ryder will do; he could be in the top half dozen, he could fade away and end up somewhere in the top 30. But 2012 is way different than 2011. Different race profiles, different ratio of mtn:ITT kms, different opponents (Alberto not being in France elevates everybody in the race one placement), plus Alberto's crap luck in 2011 as Hitch mentioned. There isn't any way to make a reasonable comparison, and even if Ryder ends up with equal or greater placements than did Alberto, it won't mean that he is an equal or greater stage racer. I don't see any way for Hesjedal to better Evans or Wiggins, barring luck or fate, and there is a host of others who could better him, but on paper this is about as good as a TDF gets for Hesjedal's GC chances even with the Giro kms in his legs.

 

[karlboss]

I think riders can perform a Giro-Tour double, and this years Giro had the parcours and was ridden at a pace suitable for giving it a shot. I think the difficult part is maintaining a peak more so than being destroyed by the physical effort. I know plenty of folk will disagree with me, but there you have it.
Hesjedal should get a Tour spot, I think he's earned the right to try and is in great form. So if he ends up being a domestique, stage hunting, KOM, or failing completely he's still worth a spot in my books.
GC, I just can't see it. Giro climbs weren't especially quick, and his TT looked good relative to the competition, but as mentioned that's not Wiggins, Evans, Menchov. The combination of holding a peak, less controlled mountain stages (I hope) and more ITT km, make me think that GC is not a viable aim. Unless he wants top 20.

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

Ryder is like that x-men villain that gets more powerful the more punishment you dish him... the more miles he rides the better, Ryder for the double!

 

[Master50]

so pretty much hesjedal to perform better then contador on a giro- tour double attempt right?

sounds legit

I guess you believe Contador's talent is all natural then? Do you really think he was suspended for a near indetectable level of clenbuterol? Oh and AC is not here to prove your point. Arguably Ryder was still on his rise in 2010 and he managed 6 th after AC got popped. He just proved his work is paying dividends.

I am not calling Ryder the winner of le Tour either only that he is a lot more dangerous than he gets credit for and that if he starts the tour at a level he managed for the Giro he is a credible threat for the podium. Further, Garmin has to start the race in support of that chance. Should they hedge their bets? It would be the smart plan to hold either Christian or Tom in reserve for the mountains while measuring Ryder's chances in case Ryder is not as ready as he needs to be. Also with Ryder as leader at least on paper, it might open the door for another to capitalize on opportunity should it present itself.
3rd week of July is still a long way out

 

[Eusebio Kino]

Ryder, as great as he is, is not top 10 material in the big one. He is not that great. The tour is for the "great ones" which unfortunately Hyder is not, the Giro is not on the level of the tour, for instance, Basso could never win the tour. Look for Ryder to domestique for Vandevelde or for that guy Daniels.

 

[maxmartin]

wait for Ryder to smash your face, i bet before the giro you probably say the same thing about him lol

Ryder, as great as he is, is not top 10 material in the big one. He is not that great. The tour is for the "great ones" which unfortunately Hyder is not, the Giro is not on the level of the tour, for instance, Basso could never win the tour. Look for Ryder to domestique for Vandevelde or for that guy Daniels.

 

[TheEnoculator]

Wow, lots of hardcore Ryder fans here. I wonder if this is becoming a bandwagon.

Do vote for him to win the Tour here. I'd like to see how many forum members really believe he can do a Giro-Tour double, when even Contador couldn't pull it off:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17310