Ryder's blood

[Benotti69]

No I am pointing out that you constantly call JV a snake-oil salesman but are now using a story fron JV to show that Bassons was gifted a stage win. You are buying what JV is selling.

Why I would be hurting when I have the lovely Riccardo Ricco saying this

“It’s cleaner now but not completely clean,” the 31-year-old told Tutto Bici.

“You can [race a grand tour clean]. I did in 2006 at the Tour de France. Winning it clean? A one-day classic, yes..”

Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...our-without-doping_356359#wg47my8IIiBtBQLZ.99

Ricco raced clean???hahahahaha. He is not even racing and he is still doping!!!!hahahahaha

Sorry but trusting the word of Ricco over Di Luca is silly.

While Di Luca is ridiculed for saying 90% of a Giro is doping, the other 10% are using the race for training, yet a guy who buys dope in a McDs carpark is really in the know???

Sorry not buying that BS.

Vaughters does sell snakeoil.

I really believe Dan Martin can not win a monument clean, unless he got extremely lucky where a crash prevented dopers from being there at the end. But to be dropping Purito on a hill in the final K or with a Gerrans in the final K, or dropping Piti in the final K of a monument is not done clean!

Vaughters told us Wiggins ('09 TdF) and Hesjedals ('12 Giro) blood anomaly reading were due to Machine Calibration Error! What are the chances? and if it was MCE why not get retested, least a clean team would do, to be sure, to be sure......

 

[blackcat]

but the chances of it being a MCE at the two times his athletes are fighting it out for the podium, is minscule for one time, but miscule to the power of 2.

minscule ^2

you do the math

 

[Benotti69]

but the chances of it being a MCE at the two times his athletes are fighting it out for the podium, is minscule for one time, but miscule to the power of 2.

minscule ^2

you do the math

I did the math and the math says 'snakeoil'.

Amazing how the recent ABPs like Kreuziger et al are not demanding Machine Calibration tests to prove that there were no errors in the tests.....'ey JV? 'ey JV ? why do you fink that is then, ey???

 

[Catwhoorg]

If I recall correctly the MCE was said to be the first data point, for Ryder not the last.

 

[westerner]

If I recall correctly the MCE was said to be the first data point, for Ryder not the last.

Thats what JV told to Captainbag and is repeated in his blog as I recall. Don't recall Roman K's camp mentioning anything about his Giro 2012 day 0 testing results being out a wack? So I suppose it was just an isolated case?

 

[sniper]

No I am pointing out that you constantly call JV a snake-oil salesman but are now using a story fron JV to show that Bassons was gifted a stage win. You are buying what JV is selling.

what's wrong with believing JV on certain issues but not on others?
i'd suggest you weigh the things he says using common sense, which is what benotti and others critical of vaughters tend to do.
the world (and much less the world of cycling) is not black white good/bad, as you know.
landis, lance, so many examples.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Vaughters told us Wiggins ('09 TdF) and Hesjedals ('12 Giro) blood anomaly reading were due to Machine Calibration Error! What are the chances? and if it was MCE why not get retested, least a clean team would do, to be sure, to be sure......

I really hate to bore you with pedantry, but I think the claim by JV in 2005 that the USPs guys were testing high due to MCE in 1999, despite the fact that he subsequently, after SOL had elapsed, admitted to having doped, should
1. be added to the list when citing the MCE anomaly
2. erode the believability of said claim even further.

But that year, it is now widely accepted even by the UCI, according to Vaughters, that its testing apparatus was calibrated somewhat high. He said this is not that uncommon, given that the machines are carried from race-to-race, through baggage handling and screening, and while efforts are made to ensure they are accurately calibrated, "there is some slop room" for variations
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Thats what JV told to Captainbag and is repeated in his blog as I recall. Don't recall Roman K's camp mentioning anything about his Giro 2012 day 0 testing results being out a wack? So I suppose it was just an isolated case?

JV went on to at first say the team doctors concurred with him that their riders were all testing high.

With further (incredulous) questioning, he correct himself and said Francesca Rossi herself told him all the riders had tested high.

But this would require her to see all the results, and compare them to all results from previous years for that same time of year.

Either way you cut it; dodgy as.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

If I recall correctly the MCE was said to be the first data point, for Ryder not the last.

Correct .

The same timing for a claimed Tour de france MCE for the USPS results back in 1999.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

NEWSFLASH August 25, 2005:

"But this year was probably the cleanest Tour since the early '90s. It (doping) has decreased enormously since the '95-'96 period." Now, Vaughters estimated about "80-85 percent" of the field is clean

Cleans.

We might just say Jona is an expert withness regarding whether cycling is clean or not.

 

[sniper]

I really hate to bore you with pedantry, but I think the claim by JV in 2005 that the USPs guys were testing high due to MCE in 1999, despite the fact that he subsequently, after SOL had elapsed, admitted to having doped, should
1. be added to the list when citing the MCE anomaly
2. erode the believability of said claim even further.

great find.
taking people by the nose is turned into an art by this guy.

JV went on to at first say the team doctors concurred with him that their riders were all testing high.

With further (incredulous) questioning, he correct himself and said Francesca Rossi herself told him all the riders had tested high.

But this would require her to see all the results, and compare them to all results from previous years for that same time of year.

Either way you cut it; dodgy as.

indeed.
but better not confront JV with his own BS, you might hurt his feelings and end up on the ignore list.

(..snipped..)
We might just say Jona is an expert withness regarding whether cycling is clean or not.

excellent find, too.
hard to keep track.

 

[Digger]

Regarding that 2005 quote about such a high percentage being clean - I pulled him on that, on the basis of it being a year before Puerto for God sake, and he said he stood by it, but that he meant all the professional ranks - World Tour, to the Pro Continental etc - so he reckoned that this figure was accurate if we include all the professionals in cycling....

 

[classicomano]

Ricco raced clean???hahahahaha. He is not even racing and he is still doping!!!!hahahahaha

Sorry but trusting the word of Ricco over Di Luca is silly.

Ricco got 98th that Tour, 3 hours behind the winner. You think he was on EPO and 3 bloodbags or something? The guy whiped out all his fellow competitors once he was on the juice you think somehow he was on a program in that Tour? Dont be ridiculous.

The "you could still win one day classics against dopers" line has been cited by more people then just Ricco. And it makes sense.

 

[thehog]

Regarding that 2005 quote about such a high percentage being clean - I pulled him on that, on the basis of it being a year before Puerto for God sake, and he said he stood by it, but that he meant all the professional ranks - World Tour, to the Pro Continental etc - so he reckoned that this figure was accurate if we include all the professionals in cycling....

Fairly sure he included the under 12 cycling league as well. What a nutter our friend JV is.

Perhaps Garmin & the UCI can make a JV doll and when you pull the string it starts repeating over & over & over....;

'cycling is clean, cycling is clean, cycling is clean'.

 

[sniper]

Fairly sure he included the under 12 cycling league as well. What a nutter our friend JV is.

Perhaps Garmin & the UCI can make a JV doll and when you pull the string it starts talking telling you;

'cycling is clean, cycling is clean, cycling is clean'.

 

[sniper]

Ricco got 98th that Tour, 3 hours behind the winner. You think he was on EPO and 3 bloodbags or something? The guy whiped out all his fellow competitors once he was on the juice you think somehow he was on a program in that Tour? Dont be ridiculous.

The "you could still win one day classics against dopers" line has been cited by more people then just Ricco. And it makes sense.

why would he be clean that Tour?
guys that end up in the bus of the propeloton are clean?
a small minority at best, and you're telling me you want to put your money on ricco belonging to that minority?
good luck.

of course that line has been cited by many.
that is evidence of what exactly?

 

[Benotti69]

Ricco got 98th that Tour, 3 hours behind the winner. You think he was on EPO and 3 bloodbags or something? The guy whiped out all his fellow competitors once he was on the juice you think somehow he was on a program in that Tour? Dont be ridiculous.

The "you could still win one day classics against dopers" line has been cited by more people then just Ricco. And it makes sense.

I dont think Ricco has been clean since he was a junior. Just because he finished 3 hours don't mean he was riding clean. He was not on a top program but i doubt he rode any race clean, ever!

As for one day races, yes small ones, but monuments, no, unless luck conspires to let a break win, but even then what are the chances a clean guy can stay away in a break with dopers?

 

[classicomano]

why would he be clean that Tour?
guys that end up in the bus of the propeloton are clean?
a small minority at best, and you're telling me you want to put your money on ricco belonging to that minority?
good luck.

of course that line has been cited by many.
that is evidence of what exactly?

How could Ricco possibly be juiced when he was in the autobus? The next year he was about the most talented climber in the peloton, what the hell do you think happened in that year in between? Besides he was a young nobody back then, its not strange to think hed ride his first GT clean, especially a risky one like the Tour.

And yes it speaks volumes that riders with nothing to hide anymore contest that one day races could still be won clean. But GT's no chance.

Id put my a ss in the fire that Ricco was clean in the 2006 Tour.

 

[thehog]

How could Ricco possibly be juiced when he was in the autobus? The next year he was about the most talented climber in the peloton, what the hell do you think happened in that year in between? Besides he was a young nobody back then, its not strange to think hed ride his first GT clean, especially a risky one like the Tour.

And yes it speaks volumes that riders with nothing to hide anymore contest that one day races could still be won clean. But GT's no chance.

Id put my a ss in the fire that Ricco was clean in the 2006 Tour.

His recent book launch he said he was clean at that Tour. I think he was apart from the basic cortisone shots etc.

I have no doubt he doped in his junior years but not to as a massive degree.

Hamilton always talked about 1000 days and Ricco reached that in '08.

Now......

The parallel to Froome is striking.... if Ricco was autobus 2006 and by 2008 he was arm wrestling Contador at the Giro and smashing up the Tour, well.... how does eveyone think Froome got to where he is?

The Christmas tooth fairly?

 

[classicomano]

I dont think Ricco has been clean since he was a junior. Just because he finished 3 hours don't mean he was riding clean. He was not on a top program but i doubt he rode any race clean, ever!

As for one day races, yes small ones, but monuments, no, unless luck conspires to let a break win, but even then what are the chances a clean guy can stay away in a break with dopers?

I believe Ricco was born with a needle full of EPO in his arm yes, but its totally conceivable hed not risk anything riding the Tour is a nobody domestique. And the results support that in my opinnion.

 

[Benotti69]

I believe Ricco was born with a needle full of EPO in his arm yes, but its totally conceivable hed not risk anything riding the Tour is a nobody domestique. And the results support that in my opinnion.

the results are proof of nothing. domestiques dont dope??

 

[classicomano]

the results are proof of nothing. domestiques dont dope??

Its not domestiques its RICCARDO RICCO the man who less then a year later was about the best climber in the peloton. Its just logical reasoning really.

 

[jens_attacks]

without any blood medicine, yes i believe ricky. definitely doable

soft dope like cortisone, some testo to recover might have used but no extra red cells

 

[Benotti69]

Its not domestiques its RICCARDO RICCO the man who less then a year later was about the best climber in the peloton. Its just logical reasoning really.

yeah and Ricci Ricco aint gonna get on his bike without popping something. Logical. Guy is doping to do granfondos FFS.

 

[thehog]

without any blood medicine, yes i believe ricky. definitely doable

soft dope like cortisone, some testo to recover might have used but no extra red cells

I agree. He hadn't discovered the wonderful world of vector doping at that point. Pipeoli was able to guide him in the right direction.