Ryders crash -motor?

[AcademyCC]

No need for 'possible evidence' here. Grab a headline, twist it and spew out some crap.

What an amazing forum. Havent seen any other sports forum on the internet were informed opinion is discussed at such a high level.

Unfortunately its mixed in with alot of drivel.

 

[keldog21]

Well its a good thing we have all these engineers explaining whats happening cus now I think I get it....the only thing i'm not quite sure about is how an object with 0 movement and an object with 0 angular momentum... become an object that is accelerating and an object that has increasing angular momentum....doooo explain!!!

 

[heart_attack_man]

This thread is a pile of balls. I came off 2 nights ago on a trail on my MTB and it stood up and started singing

I LOL'd much harder at this than I should have. Comedy gold.

 

[kielbasa]

Well its a good thing we have all these engineers explaining whats happening cus now I think I get it....the only thing i'm not quite sure about is how an object with 0 movement and an object with 0 angular momentum... become an object that is accelerating and an object that has increasing angular momentum....doooo explain!!!

Does anyone have an HD file that shows the back wheel having stopped spinning when the bike comes to a (near) stop? It sure is hard to see it doing so.

I'll argue that the wheel never stops spinning. In fact the relatively high angular momentum aids in it skipping along the pavement like a rock over water. That is until it slows sufficiently down to catch rough patch of pavement and takes off.

 

[GoodTimes]

Well its a good thing we have all these engineers explaining whats happening cus now I think I get it....the only thing i'm not quite sure about is how an object with 0 movement and an object with 0 angular momentum... become an object that is accelerating and an object that has increasing angular momentum....doooo explain!!!

A cursory read through of my posts in this thread will answer your question.

 

[kielbasa]

Does anyone have an HD file that shows the back wheel having stopped spinning when the bike comes to a (near) stop? It sure is hard to see it doing so.

I'll argue that the wheel never stops spinning. In fact the relatively high angular momentum aids in it skipping along the pavement like a rock over water. That is until it slows sufficiently down to catch rough patch of pavement and takes off.

Good post Hog, but The Clinic is desperate for a true story of mechanical doping so it continues...

 

[GoodTimes]

Good post Hog, but The Clinic is desperate for a true story of mechanical doping so it continues...

Did you just give yourself a high five? I'm confused, but it looks like you quoted yourself there...

 

[kielbasa]

Did you just give yourself a high five? I'm confused, but it looks like you quoted yourself there...

It's just a little tribute/inside joke.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

And you have have you? At World Tour level? They have idiots in blindfolds doing it, do they? Any decent mechanic could spot a motor on a bike inside 30 seconds.

If by world tour level you mean internationally accredited commisaires, then the answer is a resounding yes. Not sure if you have, but your answer seems to indicate no.

In which case you should have a look - they tend to be older people, with a rule book. They do not have time to be independently minded investigators and seekers of truth. Particularly given the allowance of teams to constantly be trialling new technology.

If you think a commissaire is up to the level of a decent mechanic, well then



LAUGH OUT FRICKEN LOUD

 

[Master50]

If by world tour level you mean internationally accredited commisaires, then the answer is a resounding yes. Not sure if you have, but your answer seems to indicate no.

In which case you should have a look - they tend to be older people, with a rule book. They do not have time to be independently minded investigators and seekers of truth. Particularly given the allowance of teams to constantly be trialling new technology.

If you think a commissaire is up to the level of a decent mechanic, well then



LAUGH OUT FRICKEN LOUD

Yr an A$$ btw
I was an international commissaire so I just have to take this a little personally. I build my own wheels and their good ones. I am a reasonable mechanic and have not taken a bike to a shop in years.

As for what IC are in their real lives? Engineers, architects, accountants, Medical Doctors, Electricians, Cops, Bike mechanics, nurses, computer programmers, a rocket scientist or two, ex riders, computer security engineer, musicians, teachers, mining engineer,,,,etc.

Hey some do what you do too.
Except for road TT, track, and Junior races there are no bike checks at international races.
There are bike checks at the finish of races now for weight and even bike doing checks too.

 

[Parker]

If by world tour level you mean internationally accredited commisaires, then the answer is a resounding yes. Not sure if you have, but your answer seems to indicate no.

I meant at an actual World Tour race, not some bloke at your local crit who has got his certificates

In which case you should have a look - they tend to be older people, with a rule book. They do not have time to be independently minded investigators and seekers of truth. Particularly given the allowance of teams to constantly be trialling new technology.

So old people are clueless now are they. I'm guessing you're young, so I'll tell you this for free. You in twenty years will regard you now as clueless (same for everyone). Commissaires at WT races don't get there because they won a raffle. They know what they're doing.

If you think a commissaire is up to the level of a decent mechanic, well then

I don't. I'm just saying motors on bikes are pretty easy to spot.

LAUGH OUT FRICKEN LOUD

And everyone else laughs at posters like you in the Clinic. No conspiracy too stupid to dismiss. They are all embraced and defended. The craving for scandal must be satisfied. There used to be a time when the uneducated saw something they didn't understand and attributed it to something spiritual - god, demons etc. Now that's been replaced by conspiracy.


Given that the engineers on here are dismissing this as nonsense, yet you mock commissaires, what are your academic qualifications?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yr an A$$ btw
I was an international commissaire so I just have to take this a little personally. I build my own wheels and their good ones. I am a reasonable mechanic and have not taken a bike to a shop in years.

I am sorry you feel insulted by my post enough to call me an a$$, but right back at ya. Commissaires typically have their favourites and some guys sail right through bike check, despite having the same problems with their bikes that other, not so popular or well known riders get pinged for.

I haven't followed your rants too closely, but you have favourites too yeah?

As for what IC are in their real lives? Engineers, architects, accountants, Medical Doctors, Electricians, Cops, Bike mechanics, nurses, computer programmers, a rocket scientist or two, ex riders, computer security engineer, musicians, teachers, mining engineer,,,,etc.

Irrelevant.

In your time as an IC, did you use a rig and a scale to check basic parameters of a bike and its weight, and that was about all the time you had?

Once you've calmed down you might see the point of my post - ICs rarely have time to do the basic checks on a bike, let alone investigate anything that looks different.

Socks extending past mid calf on recent TTTs are but one example where humans checking things against an archaic and outdated rule book mean things get missed.

I know more than a few doctors and cops, lawyers, etc. Doesn't mean they are good at bike mechanics. Lovely people, great at what they do. Wouldn't know a UCI rule book if it hit them in the backside.

Hey some do what you do too.
Except for road TT, track, and Junior races there are no bike checks at international races.
There are bike checks at the finish of races now for weight and even bike doing checks too.

And if they are all checked, only most simple of checks is conducted. Right?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

And everyone else laughs at posters like you in the Clinic. No conspiracy too stupid to dismiss. They are all embraced and defended. The craving for scandal must be satisfied. There used to be a time when the uneducated saw something they didn't understand and attributed it to something spiritual - god, demons etc. Now that's been replaced by conspiracy.

Show me one post in this thread where I have indicated that I think there is a motor in Ryder's bike? Just one. So full of yourself and your own self importance, vanquishing the mighty posters who hold a different opinion to yours.

The number of foofahs you've made if I knew you were going to get personal I would have bookmarked them.

Given that engineers are dismissing this as nonsense, yet you mock commissaires, what are your academic qualifications?

If by mocking you mean "communicate that in your experience commissaires are old" then I am sorry you feel that is mocking. If by mocking you mean "communicate your experience that there tends to be a lot of bikes and riders to check and not a lot of time" then again, I am sorry you are so sensitive to such truths. Life must be very painful for you. At a guess you are younger than I am.

Here's a clue: qualifications do not make you smart. They only make you qualified. I've met a few dumb people with degrees and know more than a few PhDs with no mechanical aptitiude.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Not all commi's are *&#*$&#$s, and there might be some commi's who don't develop a rapport with some riders more than others, and manage to impartially judge each individual (heheh) but bottom line:

they don't know all the new tech
they typically don't have time to check every bike beyond the basic weight and rig measurements
it's entirely feasible that in the hundreds of bike checks going on, a modified wheel can get through.

 

[Parker]

Show me one post in this thread where I have indicated that I think there is a motor in Ryder's bike?

A specific post where you blatently state it? No. But you have consistently argue against those that say there isn't.

For example #206

And they xray downtubes, not rear wheel hubs.

And there's enough pawls and metal bits in a rear hub that you'd not necessarily see it, even if you could reliably xray it.

Does this explain Froome's seated accelerations? And his belief that his victory will stand the test of time coz the doping was mechanical?

That's certainly 'pro-motor'. Widening the motor possibilities from the crank to the hub, as the former starts to look shakey. Clinging to the possibility of scandal by any means. (Shame that any mech eng would point out that a wheel hub motor would be really large and even more obvious)

How about you show me a post were you doubt the presence of a motor.

 

[Granville57]

Mirrored the fault and now visually we have verification. Look how the bike pulls Ryder up hill.

Reminds me of this. Rare footage of a band that Ryder played in before becoming a pro cyclist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XVWR-5fiG0

 

[Dear Wiggo]

A specific post where you blatently state it? No. But you have consistently argue against those that say there isn't.

For example #206

That's certainly 'pro-motor'. Widening the motor possibilities from the crank to the hub, as the former starts to look shakey. Clinging to the possibility of scandal by any means. (Shame that any mech eng would point out that a wheel hub motor would be really large and even more obvious)

How about you show me a post were you doubt the presence of a motor.

Could you perhaps show a post where I am arguing against someone?

The one you linked isn't an example of that.

Here's a clue: when you are looking at a hypothesis, the more information available the better. Limited information gives you limited perspective. At that point noone had mentioned the xraying that goes on, and the fact that it would be nowhere near the hub.

I get colonialism and the "might is right" attitude, where you have to kowtow to those in "authority" - this time it's the engineers.

Personally I eschew acknowledging such class structures. If I can contribute to the discussion, I will do so.

You know this is a discussion, right? And people can contribute information regarding the topic of discussion?

I am undecided.

Trying to silence people as you appear to be doing, smacks of 1984. Demanding to know my qualifications is cute, too.


ETA: "as the former starts to look shaky". heheheh talk about conspiracy theorist. If I enter a discussion and contribute new information, try to see it as that, ok? Your attempt to discredit or besmirch my input by assigning a timing angle (after it starts to look shaky) is on par with the conspiracy theories which you rail against here. A deliciously ironic and decidedly hypocritical example.

 

[Granville57]

Well... last post for now.

I like your style and I enjoy your posts.

Please continue your contributions.

 

[veganrob]

A specific post where you blatently state it? No. But you have consistently argue against those that say there isn't.

For example #206

That's certainly 'pro-motor'. Widening the motor possibilities from the crank to the hub, as the former starts to look shakey. Clinging to the possibility of scandal by any means. (Shame that any mech eng would point out that a wheel hub motor would be really large and even more obvious)

How about you show me a post were you doubt the presence of a motor.

I don't think DW's post indicates he is "pro motor" at all. He states one fact, a possibility and then asks a couple questions.
And he doesn't need to state he doubts the presence of a motor either.

 

[GoodTimes]

I get colonialism and the "might is right" attitude, where you have to kowtow to those in "authority" - this time it's the engineers.

Personally I eschew acknowledging such class structures. If I can contribute to the discussion, I will do so.

You know this is a discussion, right? And people can contribute information regarding the topic of discussion?

I am undecided.

For the record, I think I have tried to avoid arguments from authority. I think qualifications are relevant to this discussion, but that an argument should be evaluated based on it's own merits.

Do you mind sharing what you are undecided about? Specifically, are you undecided as to whether the video presented in this thread is evidence that Ryder had some kind of motor?

 

[Parker]

Could you perhaps show a post where I am arguing against someone?

The one you linked isn't an example of that.

More or less every post of yours in this thread

Here's a clue: when you are looking at a hypothesis, the more information available the better. Limited information gives you limited perspective. At that point noone had mentioned the xraying that goes on, and the fact that it would be nowhere near the hub.

As your familiar with hypotheses, you will know that they set themselves up to be disproved as well as proved. With that in mind, show me where you posted against the idea of a motor.

I get colonialism and the "might is right" attitude, where you have to kowtow to those in "authority" - this time it's the engineers.

Personally I eschew acknowledging such class structures. If I can contribute to the discussion, I will do so.

You know this is a discussion, right? And people can contribute information regarding the topic of discussion?

I am undecided.

Trying to silence people as you appear to be doing, smacks of 1984. Demanding to know my qualifications is cute, too.

Ha! The white flag dressed up as the underdog/rebel card.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

As your familiar with hypotheses, you will know that they set themselves up to be disproved as well as proved. With that in mind, show me where you posted against the idea of a motor.

You first. Go.

Ha! The white flag dressed up as the underdog/rebel card.

*whoosh* NO idea what you're talking about, but it appears your get my point. The only white flag I know is truce / surrender and I ain't there.

 

[Parker]

I don't think DW's post indicates he is "pro motor" at all. He states one fact, a possibility and then asks a couple questions.
And he doesn't need to state he doubts the presence of a motor either.

Here's a thing. There's I guy I know at work (in the UK) that is constantly complaining that everything wrong in the world is due to the Tories. Now, he's never stated who he votes for, but I can have a pretty damn good guess.

 

[Parker]

You first. Go.

My hypothesis is that you strongly favour the idea that Hesjedal had a motor in his bike. My supporting evidence is your consistent opposition to those, and only those, who think there is not. As with all hypotheses it can be severely damaged, even disproved, by peer review presenting opposing evidence. Got any?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

My hypothesis is that you strongly favour the idea that Hesjedal had a motor in his bike. My supporting evidence is your consistent opposition to those, and only those, who think there is not. As with all hypotheses it can be severely damaged, even disproved, by peer review presenting opposing evidence. Got any?

Nope, wrong. Show me one post here where you support the "motor in the bike" argument.

You're asking me to post a "no motor, perfectly normal" example, so you go first.

tsk tsk.

Still waiting for a single post of mine that opposes or disagrees with another poster in this thread specifically pertaining to their anti-motor argument. Good luck!

If you want to stop me disagreeing with your hypocrisy, that ain't gonna happen.