SA racing scene / anti-doping (SAIDS) / Minolta / Barloworld

[sniper]

Re: Re:

JR was probably making a good 30k off of that deal knowing him.

That's an unexpected bit of smearing considering you posted this only a few pages back:

There is no conflict other than your attempt to smear the man in anyway you can.

Anyway, There is a saying that goes "Those who know the truth - matter. Those who dont know the truth dont matter" You seem to be latter unfortunately.

Smear away and fabricate the thread is yours.

i'm confused here.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
JR isn't active at all on the team side any more. And he and BA didn't really see eye-to-eye much.

I'd rather not comment on the Froome testing. But as a colleague (a medical specialist) asked - how do you drop 12 or 15% total body mass off an elite grade athlete and not impact power output? This is muscle mass being impacted. And really? Do we think modern athletes train harder than old timers? Ross Tucker is unequivocal - in the last however many decades of competitive sport, the only really significant improvements have come about through chemical augmentation and not equipment or training techniques.

This is all speculation of course. As noted, in moneyed sport the Omerta tends to be strong. There is typically no remarks column on a results sheet. Just look at the typical paid rugby player these days and then factor this against local newspaper headlines noting growing concerns of rampant drug abuse among schoolboy rugby players.

I mean, how else do you make a decent living as a pro sportsperson?

thanks boet. excellent post.
Agree on all accounts.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I'd rather not comment on the Froome testing.

but... i really like that trope and the post below. I am not quite as agile, I usually just say, I am not racist, some of my best friends are (not whitebread waspie westerner)

But as a colleague (a medical specialist) asked - how do you drop 12 or 15% total body mass off an elite grade athlete and not impact power output? This is muscle mass being impacted.

you want the answer, AICAR, GW, lipotropin, cortisone, GHRP, CJC, clen, but primarily the first three, cos a fom of the others had previously existed and they were only good for a few percent total bodyweight at best, at best you get hamilton or rasmussen levels of leanness and alliterationz

And really? Do we think modern athletes train harder than old timers? Ross Tucker is unequivocal - in the last however many decades of competitive sport, the only really significant improvements have come about through chemical augmentation and not equipment or training techniques.

This is all speculation of course. As noted, in moneyed sport the Omerta tends to be strong. There is typically no remarks column on a results sheet. Just look at the typical paid rugby player these days and then factor this against local newspaper headlines noting growing concerns of rampant drug abuse among schoolboy rugby players.

I mean, how else do you make a decent living as a pro sportsperson?

yes, the omerta... in some respect, i have empathy for the pro being compelled to lie or to give up his chosen profession... you ask blackcat? what about the barrier to entry that doping requires you to say yes to the dope which is the barrier to entry and your extemporization has really flirted with extremely poor grammar and syntax blackcat. yeah, shuddup internal dialogue.

i also like the spelling of moneyed as monied. I think it has more elan.

/grammar /ToT /Poe's_law /poeslaw

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

how do you drop 12 or 15% total body mass off an elite grade athlete and not impact power output? This is muscle mass being impacted.

ok. one) false dichotomy. it can be pro-rata FTP/CdA and FTP/weight so even if the power declines, you still get faster.
I think it was Boardman who said about light bikes, you usually gotta ascend then descend, cant descend on a 6kg bike innit? so, at some stage, there can be a negative economy with the lightness and CdA (aero coefficient) and Caleb Ewan and his dentist may find out about the negative economy if someone manages to get in front or alongside him when he is in the cannonball/missile position and tells him to eat the asphalt you uppity antipode alliterationz
but, by all reports, he has maintained every watt of his FTP!
also, on the Boardman descent weight maxim, the DWM, this descent weight maxim holds true on the cobbles
Now. this is where Froomed-dawgie-dawg-dog gets respect from me, the way he handled it in 2015. And lets not forget the truly imperious show that Nibali put on in 2015. /respect.
pity Thomas Dekker was such a long-faced cnut and the UCI and Dutch Fed wanted him outta the sport. He puts the cavallo in the horse-face visage to new horsie levels.

 

[GW15something]

Re: Re:

baie dankie! appreciate it. Good info.
Is Robertson still active in the SA cycling scene?
As it happens, his colleague Barry Austin was in here recently with a few posts.

If I may, what's your take on Jeroen Swart and the Froome testing?

On a side, my understanding is that Swart and Austin don't go well together ever since the Olympics 2012.
Were you surprised to see Augustyn end up working for/with Austin?

JR isn't active at all on the team side any more. And he and BA didn't really see eye-to-eye much.

I'd rather not comment on the Froome testing. But as a colleague (a medical specialist) asked - how do you drop 12 or 15% total body mass off an elite grade athlete and not impact power output? This is muscle mass being impacted. And really? Do we think modern athletes train harder than old timers? Ross Tucker is unequivocal - in the last however many decades of competitive sport, the only really significant improvements have come about through chemical augmentation and not equipment or training techniques.

This is all speculation of course. As noted, in moneyed sport the Omerta tends to be strong. There is typically no remarks column on a results sheet. Just look at the typical paid rugby player these days and then factor this against local newspaper headlines noting growing concerns of rampant drug abuse among schoolboy rugby players.

I mean, how else do you make a decent living as a pro sportsperson?[/quote]

Steroids in schools in general are huge so naturally it rolls into sport and that being Rugby as its a National sport. At Craven week 47% of the boys were tested resulting in a 8.5% positive ratio. Pretty high for Craven week in all its years.

In 2011 I think there were 130 tests and 21 positives at CW.

Would really love to see the honest figures between CW and Highschool American Football.

 

[sniper]

lol

https://twitter.com/TheRaceRadio/status/698147352897392641
Oli Cookson, until recently Performance Coordinator at Team Sky, is now working at Team Dimension Data.

I guess Evans is the last South African positive we're going to see for a while.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Froome going to train in SA for the sunshine

 

[sniper]

ehm, dear David. He'd raced in SA before that.
SA, home to a series of doping positives throughout the 2000s, amongst which the youngest ever EPO positive Michael van Staden, who rode for Barry Austin, co-founder of Barloworld.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/16-year-old-positive-for-epo/

And many other positive riders under Barry Austin.
viewtopic.php?p=1853617#p1853617
Funny that Froome's fav training buddy, J-L Augustyn, now works for Barry.

 

[sniper]

Also note JP Van Zyl in the mix.
viewtopic.php?p=1849348#p1849348
Ex-doper (positive in 1999), later worked together with both Barry Austin and Jeroen Swart.
Now works for UCI/Cookson and Dimension Data.
https://crankpunkoriginal.com/2015/03/09/uci-employing-former-doper-man-behind-mtn-qhubeka-also-responsible-for-development-of-african-talent/
Nothing to see here, folks.

 

[yaco]

Re:

orica training in SA just after pulling out of MPCC?

froome prefers training in SA rather than racing in europe?

....any connection.........

Mark L

Pity that Orica also had a training camp in SA in 2015 when they were still in the MPCC.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Also note JP Van Zyl in the mix.
viewtopic.php?p=1849348#p1849348
Ex-doper (positive in 1999), later worked together with both Barry Austin and Jeroen Swart.
Now works for UCI/Cookson and Dimension Data.
https://crankpunkoriginal.com/2015/03/09/uci-employing-former-doper-man-behind-mtn-qhubeka-also-responsible-for-development-of-african-talent/
Nothing to see here, folks.

I just learned that Dimension Data not only employs Oliver Cookson but also sponsors ASO.
Small world.

 

[Ricco']

Re: Re:

Also note JP Van Zyl in the mix.
viewtopic.php?p=1849348#p1849348
Ex-doper (positive in 1999), later worked together with both Barry Austin and Jeroen Swart.
Now works for UCI/Cookson and Dimension Data.
https://crankpunkoriginal.com/2015/03/09/uci-employing-former-doper-man-behind-mtn-qhubeka-also-responsible-for-development-of-african-talent/
Nothing to see here, folks.

I just learned that Dimension Data not only employs Oliver Cookson but also sponsors ASO.
Small world.

It's not the only case.

Cofidis also sponsors the Vuelta, Ag2r sponsors or used the sponsor the Tour, CSC was the Tour's tech partner when they also sponsored the team, etc. And a lot of other cases in smaller races.

 

[sniper]

Cheers.
So in comparison DD seems to be one of the more blatant cases.
Cookson dabbling in a sea of CoIs.

A DD rider testing positive at the Tour?
Hell will freeze over first.

 

[Jeroen Swart]

Re: Re:

Also note JP Van Zyl in the mix.
viewtopic.php?p=1849348#p1849348
Ex-doper (positive in 1999), later worked together with both Barry Austin and Jeroen Swart.
Now works for UCI/Cookson and Dimension Data.
https://crankpunkoriginal.com/2015/03/09/uci-employing-former-doper-man-behind-mtn-qhubeka-also-responsible-for-development-of-african-talent/
Nothing to see here, folks.

I just learned that Dimension Data not only employs Oliver Cookson but also sponsors ASO.
Small world.

Sniper - I have never worked with JP in any capacity whatsoever. The link you posted is a list of the staff at the 2012 Games. I was only involved with Burry Stander and Philip Buys on the MTB side.

Please don't make these tenuous links and put them out there as fact. I gave you a complete run down of all my interactions with all things cycling.

Rather ask first if you want to check any facts I have been more than candid.

Not cool!

 

[sniper]

Thanks for expanding, Jeroen. I stand corrected and my apologies are in order.

I'm still worried about Dimension Data. Having these ties with both UCI and ASO its easy to see they can cheat and dope with impunity at the tdf.
It was a huge surprise to see them perform so well at the tdf and get their protourlicense extended.
You should be worried too. This is your sport and it's made to look like a corrupt joke where blatant COIs are the rule rather than the exception. Not cool indeed.