Santambrogio tests positive for EPO

[MarkvW]

Landis was a victim, and he talked.
This is not the case.
Things have changed a lot in this time.

People kicking Floyd was just hypocresy, but they dont kick him to dope or to give postitive, they did that to talk.

Now people kick Ricco or Mauro to dope, becouse they consider a betray to dope, and before it was considered a betray to talk, not to dope.

And that people as Lance that kick Landis (yes, I know Wiggo as well, but Wiggo is peculiar and he was well intentioned, and anyway he is paying for that), now are paying for that, and we know the true, and if that is the case with Tersptra, he must be sure he will never be tested positive, now, nor in the far future.

Calling Floyd a victim is pretty farfetched. He cheated to win the TdF. Had Floyd not been caught with that unexplainable epitestosterone, he'd be a TdF winner. Hard for me to call Floyd a victim.

 

[Taxus4a]

Calling Floyd a victim is pretty farfetched. He cheated to win the TdF. Had Floyd not been caught with that unexplainable epitestosterone, he'd be a TdF winner. Hard for me to call Floyd a victim.

Yes, you are right, he is not really a victim, but it a very different situation. If you read Hamilton s book, you can understand becouse is kinda a victim.
For me Sastre deserved that Tour... becouse I really believed all the other were dopers, Landis maybe more, but the environment for him was different, he was a victim of the system and of Lance,...almost everybody doped, and now just a few people do, and he has no excuse to dope.

 

[LaFlorecita]

If this is serious, I am disgusted... I dont care who you are or what you have done, when things get so bad and you are so alone you deserve sympathy and assistance. If you cant say anything nice or positive then please say nothing.

Well said Trudgin!!!!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Landis was a victim, and he talked.
This is not the case.
Things have changed a lot in this time.

People kicking Floyd was just hypocresy, but they dont kick him to dope or to give postitive, they did that to talk.

Now people kick Ricco or Mauro to dope, becouse they consider a betray to dope, and before it was considered a betray to talk, not to dope.

And that people as Lance that kick Landis (yes, I know Wiggo as well, but Wiggo is peculiar and he was well intentioned, and anyway he is paying for that), now are paying for that, and we know the true, and if that is the case with Tersptra, he must be sure he will never be tested positive, now, nor in the far future.

Did everybody who dogpiled on Floyd (here I'm including the pros, the officials and the fans, who all seemed to love bringing up how badly he was doing years down the line) do it to get him to talk? No, I think a lot of people took pleasure in kicking the man when he was down. People kicking guys like Riccardo Riccò or Mustafa Sayar are picking on easy targets. That's all well and good. If Niki Terpstra was posting attacking Santambrogio at the point where he got busted? Fine. No problem with that. He was an egregious doper, and was living on borrowed time. But when the guy's seemingly at the edge of the abyss, mocking or deriding his problems is totally not cool.

I don't pretend to know if Niki Terpstra dopes or not. You hint that by making an example of Santambrogio Terpstra can be sure he will never be tested positive. But that in itself is ambiguous, do you mean he has bought himself immunity by speaking up against an easy target thus paying the service to clean cycling that makes him look good to the general public? Or that he's a clean cyclist who finds Santambrogio offensive because of his doping?

I just ask, what happens if in the coming weeks Santambrogio's found dead, or taken to hospital, or similar? What of Terpstra's comments then? Guys like Kittel have been able to get pretty positive reputation regarding anti-doping from the wider world for their comments on the likes of Sayar. But if that's the aim, it backfires pretty badly if the guy is legitimately crying for help and you're throwing it back in his face. And if you were suggesting he was effectively buying immunity by making an example of Santambrogio at the expense of laughing at him at the point of tragedy, then you're suggesting he's a really, really awful person and a disgraceful human being. And I'd prefer to think that's not the case.

 

[LaFlorecita]

comprehending, sorry...

I agree with you, but people who didnt make mistakes, here a lot of people doesnt mind as person.

He is depressed, he has a bad day yesterday, he is better now, it like my winter is going to be, I dont deserve that, but life is like that, but he deserve to be like that, and it is good for cycling that he feels like that, as well a murdeder must feel bad in prison. (I am not comparing, I just say they must pay to other people dont make the same mistake)
I understand he is depressed, as a lot of people in the world, and it is always a pity, but this time was his guilt.

If cycling world dont spot these men and make feels them as criminals, things could change again in the bad way.

It is the culture that must change. If you see ok that your neighboug hit his wife... it doesnt matter the law, things will happen again becouse are social accepted.

I know cyclist that dont dope that are friend of cyclist that dope, and I cant understad that when they explain me why, they are doing bad to his way of life

When Mauro talk and apologize, things change.

Just some well-intended advice: let it go.

 

[Taxus4a]

Did everybody who dogpiled on Floyd (here I'm including the pros, the officials and the fans, who all seemed to love bringing up how badly he was doing years down the line) do it to get him to talk? No, I think a lot of people took pleasure in kicking the man when he was down. People kicking guys like Riccardo Riccò or Mustafa Sayar are picking on easy targets. That's all well and good. If Niki Terpstra was posting attacking Santambrogio at the point where he got busted? Fine. No problem with that. He was an egregious doper, and was living on borrowed time. But when the guy's seemingly at the edge of the abyss, mocking or deriding his problems is totally not cool.

I don't pretend to know if Niki Terpstra dopes or not. You hint that by making an example of Santambrogio Terpstra can be sure he will never be tested positive. But that in itself is ambiguous, do you mean he has bought himself immunity by speaking up against an easy target thus paying the service to clean cycling that makes him look good to the general public? Or that he's a clean cyclist who finds Santambrogio offensive because of his doping?

I just ask, what happens if in the coming weeks Santambrogio's found dead, or taken to hospital, or similar? What of Terpstra's comments then? Guys like Kittel have been able to get pretty positive reputation regarding anti-doping from the wider world for their comments on the likes of Sayar. But if that's the aim, it backfires pretty badly if the guy is legitimately crying for help and you're throwing it back in his face. And if you were suggesting he was effectively buying immunity by making an example of Santambrogio at the expense of laughing at him at the point of tragedy, then you're suggesting he's a really, really awful person and a disgraceful human being. And I'd prefer to think that's not the case.

I dont believe today in that things about inmunity, all of that are things of the past, and the only man with some inmunity was Lance, and he has finished really bad.

I say he is sure not to be positive becouse he dont dope. Period.

if Mauro die it is not Nikki blame, if he really is bad (I dont know, maybe is laughing at all of us, as all this year) he cant expect that the people whom cheat give support to him.

And we, as cycling fans, are doing a bad favour to this sport, attaching people that is doing things in the right way and be worried for people that in this current moment dont deserve more.

Floyd is one of the men that have help to this sport to clean, Mauro is a man, as Di Luca, that has try to cheat when everybody realized that things must change or this sport would die.

I could even understand the man of Euskaltel, his dream to stay in the world Tour, he came from a world with doping around...it is anyway a big mistake as well,... but Mauro is a different story.

If Mauro know something we dont know.. he can talk.

And I am pretty sure that Sky put that hight effort the firsts days of the Giro to put down every breakaway of Vini (and later nobody was to help Wiggo, and need to stop Urán and Henao) becouse they know Vini was mostly doped.

 

[burning]

People here take some things way too seriously, for example I really want Lance to lose everyhing he has and just die as a beggar or something like that as he hurt loads of people during his life, but repeatedly kicking a guy why he's down (Although he commited a crime and should definitely pay for it, he didnt call loads of people w*nker and c*nts or he didnt virtually troll people like Brailsford's comments about "clean cycling" in 2012 and 2013) is really a bad thing.

I hope that people wont do this sort of things when you are down in your life.

Can somebody gave info about Terpstra's tweet, he deleted it

 

[LaFlorecita]

People here take some things way too seriously, for example I really want Lance to lose everyhing he has and just die as a beggar or something like that as he hurt loads of people during his life, but repeatedly kicking a guy why he's down (Although he commited a crime and should definitely pay for it, he didnt call loads of people w*nker and c*nts or he didnt virtually troll people like Brailsford's comments about "clean cycling" in 2012 and 2013) is really a bad thing.

I hope that people wont do this sort of things when you are down in your life.

Can somebody gave info about Terpstra's tweet, he deleted it

 

[Libertine Seguros]

if Mauro die it is not Nikki blame, if he really is bad (I dont know, maybe is laughing at all of us, as all this year) he cant expect that the people whom cheat give support to him.

Of course it isn't Niki's fault if Mauro dies, but if he does, an insensitive comment like that has a habit of coming back to haunt you. And while Mauro can't exactly expect support from those cheated by his doping, there is a difference between "not supporting" and "going out of your way to post derisive comments". There is a middle ground.

And we, as cycling fans, are doing a bad favour to this sport, attaching people that is doing things in the right way and be worried for people that in this current moment dont deserve more.

Talking about Mauro Santambrogio at the moment does not involve being a cycling fan. I'm not attacking Terpstra for "doing things in the right way" because if he's cycling in "the right way" that's fine, but it's irrelevant to the topic of discussion, which is Mauro Santambrogio, who at present is not a cyclist. I don't believe that kicking a man when he's begging for help is "doing things in the right way". In fact, I believe very much that that's doing things in the wrong way.

Floyd is one of the men that have help to this sport to clean, Mauro is a man, as Di Luca, that has try to cheat when everybody realized that things must change or this sport would die.

I could even understand the man of Euskaltel, his dream to stay in the world Tour, he came from a world with doping around...it is anyway a big mistake as well,... but Mauro is a different story.

If Mauro know something we dont know.. he can talk.

And I am pretty sure that Sky put that hight effort the firsts days of the Giro to put down every breakaway of Vini (and later nobody was to help Wiggo, and need to stop Urán and Henao) becouse they know Vini was mostly doped.

Floyd only helped the sport after years of watching his life fall apart and his every attempt to come back being thwarted, and became embittered to the point of razing the ground behind him. If he'd been able to come back in late 2008 or early 2009 at a top level team like Ivan Basso did, none of it would have happened. It's by the by, because Mauro Santambrogio doped, and he was a villain within the world of cycling, and you will get no arguments against that from me, because I agree. However, while Mauro Santambrogio was a doper and a villain, he is also a troubled man who needs help. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[LaFlorecita]

And I am pretty sure that Sky put that hight effort the firsts days of the Giro to put down every breakaway of Vini (and later nobody was to help Wiggo, and need to stop Urán and Henao) becouse they know Vini was mostly doped.

I don't believe this is really what you think. It can't be.

 

[The Hitch]

I don't believe this is really what you think. It can't be.

He saw WonderLance is back and thought "damn, I really need to raise the level".

 

[Taxus4a]

I don't believe this is really what you think. It can't be.

Why?
Sky is very freakie antidoping, specially Wiggo...and everybody knew that days about Santambroglio and Di Luca cheating. Inside cycling, people know a lot of things, not everything, but a lot...


I am not sure, but I dont have any other explanation for that behaviour from SKy, they maybe are not very smart, but not so stupids.

 

[roundabout]

Sky did chase a break with a Viniwhatever guy on one of the early stages. Scinto may have even been unhappy about it.

At least that's how I remember it.

 

[Digger]

Calling Floyd a victim is pretty farfetched. He cheated to win the TdF. Had Floyd not been caught with that unexplainable epitestosterone, he'd be a TdF winner. Hard for me to call Floyd a victim.

Really your hatred of landis is impressive.

By the way a lot of people say landis only came forward when he had nothing left to lose...on the contrary, he knew that by coming forward he was leaving himself open for the case brought against him last year and the judgement against him.

 

[thehog]

Calling Floyd a victim is pretty farfetched. He cheated to win the TdF. Had Floyd not been caught with that unexplainable epitestosterone, he'd be a TdF winner. Hard for me to call Floyd a victim.

Ohhhh Mark. Just when you're telling what a cesspit cycling is top to bottom you go and say something stupid like this.

What the heck?

The sport top down, still is allowing selective doping.

You have a guy who could barely ride a bike straight now killing everyone at the tour with in-saddle accelerations beating other dopers.

I know you write this stuff for a reaction but the dopers have come and gone. But I cannot remember any cyclists in the history of the sport who busted it wide open like Landis did. It took time. But he gutted it from Armstrong, to McQuaid, to Verbruggin and all the cronyism that had suffocated the sport.

Cookson is only here because of Landis.

And while there's guys writing books, signing movie deals and JV talking 5.9 etc. profiting from Landis's work.

I think credit where credit due.

Everyone in there fantasies think they can be a whistleblower but few could ever stand the pressure to do so.

 

[MarkvW]

Ohhhh Mark. Just when you're telling what a cesspit cycling is top to bottom you go and say something stupid like this.

What the heck?

The sport top, still is allowing selective doping.

You have a guy who could barely ride a bike straight now killing everyone at the tour with in-saddle accelerations beating other dopers.

I know you write this stuff for a reaction but the dopers have come and gone. But I cannot remember any cyclists in the history of the sport who busted it wide open like Landis did. It took time. But he gutted it from Armstrong, to McQuaid, to Verbruggin and all the cronyism from that has suffocated the sport.

Cookson is only here because of Landis.

And while there's guys writing books, signing movie deals and JV talking 5.9 etc.

I think credit where credit due.

Everyone in there fantasies think they can be a whistleblower but few could ever stand the pressure to do so.

Floyd may be going from destitute to millionaire. He cheats to win the TdF, gets stripped, and gets millions . . .. Sorry, just doesn't sound like a victim to me. I'm certainly not denying that Floyd is responsible for a lot of positive change in the sport. He certainly is a whistleblower, but he's no victim.

 

[thehog]

Floyd may be going from destitute to millionaire. He cheats to win the TdF, gets stripped, and gets millions . . .. Sorry, just doesn't sound like a victim to me. I'm certainly not denying that Floyd is responsible for a lot of positive change in the sport. He certainly is a whistleblower, but he's no victim.

J-zus Mark. It's not a lottery. It's almost 2014. Landis won the Tour in 2006. 8 years ago. 8 years.

Millions? Not likely.

Peril, stress, reconciliation, busting people's balls, lost friendships, family, yeah.

To do what that cat did talks balls the size of Atlanta. No one had ever took Armstrong on and won. No one even took Armstrong on.

Not that it's a game. But nobody should had to gone through what he did to be where we are today.

Doper or non-doper.

Yah think Wiggins was going to save the sport? Or McQuaid. Cookson would still be a hedge cutter in Coventry.

 

[MarkvW]

J-zus Mark. It's not a lottery. It's almost 2014. Landis won the Tour in 2006. 8 years ago. 8 years.

Millions? Not likely.

Peril, stress, reconciliation, busting people's balls, lost friendships, family, yeah.

To do what that cat did talks balls the size of Atlanta. No one had ever took Armstrong on and won. No one even took Armstrong on.

Not that it's a game. But nobody should had to gone through what he did to be where we are today.

Doper or non-doper.

Yah think Wiggins was going to save the sport? Or McQuaid. Cookson would still be a hedge cutter in Coventry.

Floyd's looking at millions.

 

[thehog]

Floyd's looking at millions.

Thanks for the thought provoking, intelligent response.

Are you meant to be a lawyer?

 

[RedheadDane]

You guys are sick if you can't see the difference between pro cycling and a ****ing human life. Santambrogio is already out of pro cycling, and rightly so. I was one of the most vocal critics of Santambrogio the doper. That's not the issue - this is about Santambrogio the person. If it was Armstrong, who's the meanest, baddest doper there ever was, I'd still feel the same, because I have this little human thing called empathy.

Pretty much what I wanted to say.

Yes. When I read about it a little part of me, the cynical part, couldn't help but thinking that it was his own damn fault.
But another part, a bigger part, the part of me that's still human, knows that just because someone makes a mistake - and we don't know what lead him down the dark path to doping - it doesn't mean they deserve to die.
The doper Santambrogio is a fool.
But the man Mauro? He's a person who - at least to me - pretty clearly regrets the choice he made.

 

[WonderLance]

And I am pretty sure that Sky put that hight effort the firsts days of the Giro to put down every breakaway of Vini (and later nobody was to help Wiggo, and need to stop Urán and Henao) becouse they know Vini was mostly doped.

Yes, this was pretty obvious to the trained observer. Sky made it clear that they would fight against the dopers in their actions. This is clearly another indicator of how they have dominated the season as masters of the peleton.

Not only will sky not tollerate doping on their own team but they will fight to stop it on others as well,

 

[Benotti69]

Floyd's looking at millions.

I bet Landis would give those millions for his marriage and his father in law, but sadly money cant buy anything back.

To not see the hard road Landis has been and come out with BS about money either shows an obession with money, a complete lack of understanding or both.

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>
And I am pretty sure that Sky put that hight effort the firsts days of the Giro to put down every breakaway of Vini (and later nobody was to help Wiggo, and need to stop Urán and Henao) becouse they know Vini was mostly doped.

How did Sky know Vini were doping?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Also, Floyd wasn't destitute in 2007. If he was looking at millions, why wait until he's hit rock bottom, lost practically everything and been treated as a human punching bag by the sport's media for four years to hit back? It took a lot of people kicking Floyd long after he was downed before he scorched the earth.

 

[Taxus4a]

I have just read an interview to Santa of today.

He is bad, but it is really how he deserve to feel. He must pay not just as cyclist, but as person as well. It is the only way to change this, that he feel as the worst for the cycling world and the society...unless he apologize and try to help cycling in some way.

No apologize for the damage to cycling again. I cant say what I feel of that man, becouse it was deleted in other message.

He says cycling is his life...He was very.........to doing that choice.

He said he felt as a champion in the Giro, and now... Man, that the prize you must pay, and this is a message for all the riders that try to do the same: YOU WILL PAY.

I am sorry to be so hard, but must be like that, he has his friend to avoid his suicide, he didnt respect cycling world, and stil do it by dont apologize. He cant have my respect.

I know how he feels, I have feel like that sometimes, but he need apologize. it was his fault, just his fault, we have had long time when you can consider a lot of factors when a man dope, the environment, a lot of people did it, pressure, loft controls,...a lot of good and fair persons doped. But today is very stupid to dope, and more in that way that make him one of the best riders of the year.

I didnt mind if Wiggins or Froome suicide if one thay is proven that they dope just one day is their life. I am not goping to help that, but I would be very very hard. It would be very serious after his statements in the era we are. It would be much more serious than Santa. I know it is not the case, but just in case... and they know that now things are like that, we could excuse Lance, but we wont escuse things like that in the future. They have the choice today: dont dope. Today they are not escuses to say no.
Froome knows that is one day is proven he doped just once, his life will be a hell and he will want to die.

Andy for instance, has denied doping, but if tomorrow is proven that he doped in the past, it is not the same case, it was another time, and nobody talked about that, and feel they were doing the correct thing. I hope no, but I wouldnt be surprised