Santambrogio tests positive for EPO

[thehog]

You do know English isn't his first language right? No need to mock someone because they struggle writing in another language.

She, not he.

No need to go on ad infinitum

 

[JimmyFingers]

Fantastic. As usual really bringing something to the debate.

 

[Taxus4a]

I read me again and I understand is funny, I will be more careful next time.

I think this is not the same case as Pantani, I consider him a big doper, but he was a victim as well.

But in his case, nobody was talking bad about him.

I have been comprensive in the past with a lot of dopers, but now things are different.

I understand as well that people that thinks things have not changed, look at Tepstra as an hypocrite, but the evidence of changing is big.


Thank you Jimmy

 

[Trudgin]

. . .[edited by mod]

If this is serious, I am disgusted... I dont care who you are or what you have done, when things get so bad and you are so alone you deserve sympathy and assistance. If you cant say anything nice or positive then please say nothing.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I understand as well that people that thinks things have not changed, look at Tepstra as an hypocrite, but the evidence of changing is big.


Thank you Jimmy

Because Niki Testosterone is a clean example? Good joke mate.

 

[The Hitch]

If this is serious, I am disgusted... I dont care who you are or what you have done, when things get so bad and you are so alone you deserve sympathy and assistance. If you cant say anything nice or positive then please say nothing.

I do care who you are and what you have done, and in plenty of cases I would shout "jump".

Its just that a professional athlete who cheated with drugs in an environment where several social factors encourage you to cheat with drugs, doesn't come close to fitting that cartegory.

 

[hiero2]

I have sympathy for anyone who is suicidal, doper or not (my thoughts turn to Obree), but then I don't like accusing people of doping without real evidence either

More news on the topic here: http://road.cc/content/news/96234-mauro-santambrogio-saved-suicide-bid-outpouring-support-twitter

They say sample B had levels of EPO too low to call it doping. I would say we have at least a smoking gun now as evidence of micro-dosing. Kinda like back in the bad old days - when rumors of reports about Armstrong were mostly unsubstantiated rumors. Smoking guns.

Disappointing on one hand. A relief on the other - possible beginnings of confirmation of what most in the clinic strongly believe is happening based on circumstantial findings alone.

 

[Taxus4a]

If this is serious, I am disgusted... I dont care who you are or what you have done, when things get so bad and you are so alone you deserve sympathy and assistance. If you cant say anything nice or positive then please say nothing.

so bad, why?

First, is he really so bad or is he doing a performance?

Second, if he is really bad, I have said I am sorry for him, it is not funny that people are bad.

If you did mistake you must apologize about it.

I heve been always very comprensive whit dopers, sometime they are victims and the really guilty are others... if this is the case, I want to hear Mauro about that.

Finally, cycling is in a moment in wich must put appart people as him if the sport want to progress.

I am not the kind of people that doent care about the suffer of the people, by the contrary, I use to be worried...but he must do something in this case for that.

After a long peoriod of a very bad credibility of cycling, change the mind of the people it is difficult, so he choose a bad moment for his mistake and he cant wait the peloton praised him or try to understand.

Pantani was murdered? Maybe in some way, but this is not the case, if he prove he is really bad and if he apologize, maybe I will think to him as a person that need care.

Before, I must think in cycling.

But the worst in all of this for me in that people that has make a lot of pain in the life of honest riders, came here to defend this "man"...


What is that about testosterone and Nikki? If you explain me, I could change about him..

 

[Taxus4a]

I do care who you are and what you have done, and in plenty of cases I would shout "jump".

Its just that a professional athlete who cheated with drugs in an environment where several social factors encourage you to cheat with drugs, doesn't come close to fitting that cartegory.

if this is true, and in Vini that could be possible (I know anyway clean riders in that team), he must talk. I dont think today we are in that environment that we were in the past.

I would be comprensive with him if that is the case.

 

[hiero2]

I love it!

3 cleans!

And a typhografic (sic, typographic) . . .

Afaic, taxus, this is friendly jesting. In good fun at the moment . . .

 

[hiero2]

I read me again and I understand is funny, I will be more careful next time.

I think this is not the same case as Pantani, I consider him a big doper, but he was a victim as well.

But in his case, nobody was talking bad about him.

I have been comprensive in the past with a lot of dopers, but now things are different.

I understand as well that people that thinks things have not changed, look at Tepstra as an hypocrite, but the evidence of changing is big.


Thank you Jimmy

I wouldn't say nobody was bad-talking Pantani, but you are correct in that it was not common.

I do have a question for you - you are using a word "comprensive" frequently. I don't know what you mean to say in English. Could you explain what you mean, please? For my benefit and the others reading this.

Personally, I think that the attitude expressed here by some: "separate Mauro S the doper from Mauro S the person" - is the most reasonable one. People make mistakes. Although the logic may be improper, we are all a member of the group "people", therefore we all make mistakes.

 

[Taxus4a]

He is an stupid, and he must pay. [disrespectful bit deleted by mod] people as him have made very hard the lives of other people, and make a lot of pain in this beautifull sport.

Is he a victim? why??

He is not the only guilty maybe in his case, but no more.

He is been coward, he must be brave and apologize, and if he know something he can prove, talk.

This world is crazy, people as Wiggins always questioned, and this stupid and MF boy been praised for some fans.

what a BS!!

I hope other riders [speak out like Terpstra]...but maybe they dont want to lose time or give more publicity to this "man"...

[ . . .]Mauro, out of cycling!!

I hope moderators do the same when people talk of other riders, I didnt say any really bad word, to say idiot is less that others said to other riders.

if they do, I respect this moderation, becouse I think people must writte in a respectful way... other way I will remember it if I see any similar in the future.

hrotra writted today: idiot of the day, and I didnt see the moderation.

 

[northstar]

Do you think Froome is cleans?

I just wanted you to say 'cleans'.

Please tell me you'll always say 'cleans'?

I love it!

3 cleans!

Surprised a mod interprets this as good fun. Once would have been funny. Four times is mocking the poster IMO.

 

[Descender]

She, not he.

No need to go on ad infinitum

It's a he.

And he's a massive troll who got permabanned on another forum for continuous forum disruptions.

I advise you all to do just like me and add him to your ignore list.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

It's a he.

And he's a massive troll who got permabanned on another thread for continuous forum disruptions.

I advise you all to do just like me and add him to your ignore list.

I have said that here a couple of times.

 

[thehog]

It's a he.

And he's a massive troll who got permabanned on another thread for continuous forum disruptions.

I advise you all to do just like me and add him to your ignore list.

I know and he/she is not Spanish.

But Froome is cleans just makes me laugh.

It's cute.

 

[Descender]

I have said that here a couple of times.

I meant "another forum", of course.

Thing is, people often don't realise he's a troll, since he's a very, very good one.

That being said, his terrible command of the English language makes it a bit harder for him.

 

[Descender]

I know and he/she is not Spanish.

But Froome is cleans just makes me laugh.

It's cute.

What are you talking about? It's a he, and he is Spanish. I even know his name. He's hardly an obscure character in the Spanish interwebs.

 

[Eshnar]

keep it on topic people.

 

[Taxus4a]

I wouldn't say nobody was bad-talking Pantani, but you are correct in that it was not common.

I do have a question for you - you are using a word "comprensive" frequently. I don't know what you mean to say in English. Could you explain what you mean, please? For my benefit and the others reading this.

Personally, I think that the attitude expressed here by some: "separate Mauro S the doper from Mauro S the person" - is the most reasonable one. People make mistakes. Although the logic may be improper, we are all a member of the group "people", therefore we all make mistakes.

comprehending, sorry...

I agree with you, but people who didnt make mistakes, here a lot of people doesnt mind as person.

He is depressed, he has a bad day yesterday, he is better now, it like my winter is going to be, I dont deserve that, but life is like that, but he deserve to be like that, and it is good for cycling that he feels like that, as well a murdeder must feel bad in prison. (I am not comparing, I just say they must pay to other people dont make the same mistake)
I understand he is depressed, as a lot of people in the world, and it is always a pity, but this time was his guilt.

If cycling world dont spot these men and make feels them as criminals, things could change again in the bad way.

It is the culture that must change. If you see ok that your neighboug hit his wife... it doesnt matter the law, things will happen again becouse are social accepted.

I know cyclist that dont dope that are friend of cyclist that dope, and I cant understad that when they explain me why, they are doing bad to his way of life

When Mauro talk and apologize, things change.

 

[Taxus4a]

Idiot of the day:

https://twitter.com/NikiTerpstra/status/388558665026125824

I put the word idiot and it was moderated, so I cant understand why here that word is not irrespectful, thanks

 

[Netserk]

I put the word idiot and it was moderated, so I cant understand why here that word is not irrespectful, thanks

10 Characters.

Dan declared it closed permanently. Future mod complaints should be made directly to Dan for now.

 

[Taxus4a]

10 Characters.

I was a thought for the forum to know it.

Anyway, I dont know who is Dan and how to complain to him.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You don't think Mauro's already been outcast compared to any number of dopers who've had a comparatively cushy time? Look, it's nice to see a cheat get their comeuppance, but it's not nice to watch a person fall apart. Remember all the stuff about Landis that led to his coming clean? About his marriage falling apart and his living in a shack behind a car wash and some of the quite strange and sometimes concerning stuff he would be talking about?

We don't need to have any compassion for Mauro doping and being too brash about it to get away with it. There's no need to turn it into a territorial thing about how Italian and Spanish dopers are ok but Anglo dopers aren't, either, because firstly we're not talking about Mauro as a victim because of his doping (because he isn't). We're talking about Mauro as a human being undergoing hard times, and it's irrelevant whether they're of his own making or not, if he needs help he should be helped. And secondly, Floyd had a lot of people kicking him when he was down, and Valverde is one of those supposedly beloved Spanish dopers, and it feels like most people can't seem to mention him on the forum without finding some reason to ensure you know they hate him (a bit like I did with Sagan last week). Also, public and private personae are totally different. Ask the average member of this forum in 2010 their opinion of Mark Cavendish the person, then ask Jonny Bellis his opinion of Mark Cavendish the person.

Mauro's got himself banned and rightly so. He deserves the criticism he gets for his conduct on the bike. But how people deal with it is an individual thing, and we have no idea what kind of pressures Mauro may or may not have been under in his personal life in addition to and aside from his professional one. And depression is an illness, and if Mauro really does have problems, then he really doesn't deserve mockery for it. It's not about martyring Santambrogio, and it's not about a rallying cry for cycling in general to stand up against doping. Because many riders have doped, been suspended, and not found themselves at the edge of the abyss. This is not a wider point about the state of the sport, or about doping in different countries and the attitudes of the forum to different teams. Or it shouldn't be, and it does us no favours and reflects poorly on all involved if the thread degenerates into bickering about Sky and Trek. It's about Mauro Santambrogio. I'd like to think fair-minded posters like hrotha would be similarly sympathetic should, for example, Jonathan Tiernan-Locke (I know, proof pending, but to take an Anglo example still feeling the heat) or Denis Galimzyanov find themselves crying out for help.

 

[Taxus4a]

You don't think Mauro's already been outcast compared to any number of dopers who've had a comparatively cushy time? Look, it's nice to see a cheat get their comeuppance, but it's not nice to watch a person fall apart. Remember all the stuff about Landis that led to his coming clean? About his marriage falling apart and his living in a shack behind a car wash and some of the quite strange and sometimes concerning stuff he would be talking about?

We don't need to have any compassion for Mauro doping and being too brash about it to get away with it. There's no need to turn it into a territorial thing about how Italian and Spanish dopers are ok but Anglo dopers aren't, either, because firstly we're not talking about Mauro as a victim because of his doping (because he isn't). We're talking about Mauro as a human being undergoing hard times, and it's irrelevant whether they're of his own making or not, if he needs help he should be helped. And secondly, Floyd had a lot of people kicking him when he was down, and Valverde is one of those supposedly beloved Spanish dopers, and it feels like most people can't seem to mention him on the forum without finding some reason to ensure you know they hate him (a bit like I did with Sagan last week). Also, public and private personae are totally different. Ask the average member of this forum in 2010 their opinion of Mark Cavendish the person, then ask Jonny Bellis his opinion of Mark Cavendish the person.

Mauro's got himself banned and rightly so. He deserves the criticism he gets for his conduct on the bike. But how people deal with it is an individual thing, and we have no idea what kind of pressures Mauro may or may not have been under in his personal life in addition to and aside from his professional one. And depression is an illness, and if Mauro really does have problems, then he really doesn't deserve mockery for it. It's not about martyring Santambrogio, and it's not about a rallying cry for cycling in general to stand up against doping. Because many riders have doped, been suspended, and not found themselves at the edge of the abyss. This is not a wider point about the state of the sport, or about doping in different countries and the attitudes of the forum to different teams. Or it shouldn't be, and it does us no favours and reflects poorly on all involved if the thread degenerates into bickering about Sky and Trek. It's about Mauro Santambrogio. I'd like to think fair-minded posters like hrotha would be similarly sympathetic should, for example, Jonathan Tiernan-Locke (I know, proof pending, but to take an Anglo example still feeling the heat) or Denis Galimzyanov find themselves crying out for help.

Landis was a victim, and he talked.
This is not the case.
Things have changed a lot in this time.

People kicking Floyd was just hypocresy, but they dont kick him to dope or to give postitive, they did that to talk.

Now people kick Ricco or Mauro to dope, becouse they consider a betray to dope, and before it was considered a betray to talk, not to dope.

And that people as Lance that kick Landis (yes, I know Wiggo as well, but Wiggo is peculiar and he was well intentioned, and anyway he is paying for that), now are paying for that, and we know the true, and if that is the case with Tersptra, he must be sure he will never be tested positive, now, nor in the far future.