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Sassi?

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May 26, 2010
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auscyclefan94 said:
If you read the article on cyclingnews he admitted that it wasn't cheating in those days but it was a short cut. I doubt a guy who has a brain tumor and a guy who doesn't know how long he has left would fly half way across the world for a dpoing conference if he didn't feel passionate about speaing out about doping. He isn't actually working with Ricco but offered to help him get back on track.

what? you think giving athletes a drug that increases the red blood cells in their body is not cheating? well if it's not on the banned list it's not. D'Oh!!!!

Short cut. How many of his athletes are now on short cuts that will be next years cheating?????

I think a guy like Sassi offering a guy like Ricco, who when doped turned on the peloton mocking and jeering at them is always gonna be a doper and if a guy like Sassi thinks Ricco is a good guy but a off track, well after Torri said “It’s called family doping,” Torri said. “It’s unbelievable.” I cannot think that Sassi would want to work with such a rider. Ricco's attitude to his fiancé when she tested positive was not one of forgiveness from a banned doper but he was going to dump her if the b sample tested positive, the mother of his child. Scumbag!

I'm think his methods are PEDs or some sort or other, short cuts or not!
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
what? you think giving athletes a drug that increases the red blood cells in their body is not cheating? well if it's not on the banned list it's not. D'Oh!!!!

Short cut. How many of his athletes are now on short cuts that will be next years cheating?????

I think a guy like Sassi offering a guy like Ricco, who when doped turned on the peloton mocking and jeering at them is always gonna be a doper and if a guy like Sassi thinks Ricco is a good guy but a off track, well after Torri said “It’s called family doping,” Torri said. “It’s unbelievable.” I cannot think that Sassi would want to work with such a rider. Ricco's attitude to his fiancé when she tested positive was not one of forgiveness from a banned doper but he was going to dump her if the b sample tested positive, the mother of his child. Scumbag!

I'm think his methods are PEDs or some sort or other, short cuts or not!

Read the article before shooting your mouth off you imbecile! he was talking about his work with Conconi and Ferrari. At those times, how many riders were taking drugs or doping as a %? It doesn't seem like cheating when you unveil that percentage.

btw, is english your second language?
 
Nov 2, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
If you read the article on cyclingnews he admitted that it wasn't cheating in those days but it was a short cut. I doubt a guy who has a brain tumor and a guy who doesn't know how long he has left would fly half way across the world for a dpoing conference if he didn't feel passionate about speaing out about doping. He isn't actually working with Ricco but offered to help him get back on track.

Sassi attended the conference, but stated that he was in Australia for the WCs to promote his business, Mapei, which was the major sponsor of the WCs.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Read the article before shooting your mouth off you imbecile! he was talking about his work with Conconi and Ferrari. At those times, how many riders were taking drugs or doping as a %? It doesn't seem like cheating when you unveil that percentage.
So in other words, you're totally cool with Evans doping because "everybody does it." I mean, that's fine, as long as you're consistent, but you're not.
"At those times", heh. How do you come up with this stuff?
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Spare Tyre said:
Sassi attended the conference, but stated that he was in Australia for the WCs to promote his business, Mapei, which was the major sponsor of the WCs.
The guy has a fricken brain tumor. I am sure there were plenty of others could of done the same thing who are disease free but he obviously also wanted to come over because of the doping conference.
hrotha said:
So in other words, you're totally cool with Evans doping because "everybody does it." I mean, that's fine, as long as you're consistent, but you're not.
"At those times", heh. How do you come up with this stuff?
No.
What time did Conconi, Ferrari and Sassi all work together? I said "At those times"... Ferrari and Conconi never worked at mapei or at the time Evans was with them so I do not see your point.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Not sure but he goes through with drug tests through Sassi as well as the race and uci tests.

but Basso has commited himself to make public his profiles,- so I ask myself why can't Evans-being touted as the "cleanest GT rider in the peloton"- do the same- so we can clear any suspicious of him at all???:confused:
 
May 26, 2010
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auscyclefan94 said:
Read the article before shooting your mouth off you imbecile! he was talking about his work with Conconi and Ferrari. At those times, how many riders were taking drugs or doping as a %? It doesn't seem like cheating when you unveil that percentage.

btw, is english your second language?

Ingleeesh???? from an Antipodean :D

So his work with 2 of the biggest drug Doctors from Italy means nothing!

Cheating is cheating. Anybody with half a brain would know that taking a substance to boost blood is cheating whatever %.

Keep up the name calling it makes you argument very solid!;)
 
I believe Sassi is sincere. In this sense the struggling cancer patient is not a fraud in my opinion. Though his sincerity does not gaurantee anything. On the other hand he works with scientific data, knows his boys through and through and thus his sincerity can at least leave us optimistic, which is decidedly better than all the other folks who can leave us only with the most entrenched pesimism.
 
May 26, 2010
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rhubroma said:
I believe Sassi is sincere. In this sense the struggling cancer patient is not a fraud in my opinion. Though his sincerity does not gaurantee anything. On the other hand he works with scientific data, knows his boys through and through and thus his sincerity can at least leave us optimistic, which is decidedly better than all the other folks who can leave us only with the most entrenched pesimism.

I can think of another cancer patient that came over as sincere and fooled the world into 7 TdF wins:rolleyes:
 
Benotti69 said:
I can think of another cancer patient that came over as sincere and fooled the world into 7 TdF wins:rolleyes:

He was talking about the cleanliness of his riders before cancer too. Look the guy has a good reputation in Italy in the current cycling scene. That he worked with Conconi and Ferrari before, however, was news to me and this does make me reconsider what I previously wrote.
 
May 26, 2010
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rhubroma said:
He was talking about the cleanliness of his riders before cancer too. Look the guy has a good reputation in Italy in the current cycling scene. That he worked with Conconi and Ferrari before, however, was news to me and this does make me reconsider what I previously wrote.

There is not a good reputation in existance in Italy at the moment, Torri called it "family doping", I would be curious to know what Sassi can do with athletes that all other trainers can't, re Brailsford at team Sky. Basso and Evans top the Giro, Wiggins nowhere (i know it was training but i expected a top 15 from a GT rider)

Brailsford to his credit has not produced race winners in the pro peloton, which one could interpret as a sign of clean racing by his riders. Sassi has produced winners in a peloton that has proven to be doping left right and centre.

Hard to figure:rolleyes:
 
JRTinMA said:
... I see in the article he claims to use a hemoglobin mass test and I have no idea what that is but I'm sure its available to WADA labs.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the test that tells you how much blood is in the body, basically a give away as to whether you transfuse. See, a transfusion can be done so as not to alter the hct %, but as there's more blood in the body overall you'll have more red cells and thus more oxygen carrying capacity as well.
Yes, obviously this test is available to UCI et al but is considered "too expensive" (as far as I understand) to be done as a standard by the authorities. However, several anti-doping people are saying it should be done. This is one of the things that I find important in Sassi's work...

Moose McKnuckles said:
Bruyneel also said he looked in Basso's eyes and knew he was telling the truth about being clean.

LOL. Pro cycling is funny.

Yes and Phil Liggett said he looked in LA's eyes and knew he was telling the truth - he didn't believe Vino though...

Procycling is truly IS funny!

Benotti69 said:
Well let's look at Sassi, worked with Conconi and Ferrari, did he offer evidence in the Ferarri trial to rid the sport of the 'doping devil'?
...

Maybe he only worked with these guys before it was an illegal method? Do you want to check your facts?

Benotti69 said:
...When did Sassi come out against doping? He is not a young man so is he jumping on a band wagon?
...

When did he become pro-doping? All I have ever known of him is to be hard against it...

Benotti69 said:
Look at his riders, Basso an ex doper and inviting Ricco another ex doper. Ricco has probably been doping since his junior days. Instead of turning his back on a snake like Ricco, i see him saying that i can make you achieve the same with Mapei 'medicine' and make you 'Sassi clean', which he hopes to brand in the world of pro cycling.
...

How on earth would it make more sense to work with non-dopers? They don't need to change - they need the dopers to change... As for Ricco - Yes, you're probably right - at least that's the rumour. Is there anyone more in need then?

Benotti69 said:
His comments about maximum wattage are high comparable to rates in the 80's are they not? How does he achieve this in his Mapei training centre?

His comments are based on blood values and high wattage!

I don't buy it.

And what are your comments based on? Uninformed prejudice? You seem to have ingested a bit too much high wattage yourself judging by the underlying anger in your post.

Anyway, nobody's forcing you to buy anything

luckyboy said:
Why don't Evans etc. don't release their profiles?

AFAIK Basso does - Don't know about Evans. The only reason to do it by the way is to satisfy public opinion - and at the same time accepting the associated risk of being labelled "suspicious" because of any single outlier. Also it's not exactly an advantage to have all your competitors know your vital statistics while you know none of theirs. I love it when riders release their tests, and hope more will do, but am far from sure I'd have the balls to do it myself if were in their position...
 
Benotti69 said:
There is not a good reputation in existance in Italy at the moment, Torri called it "family doping", I would be curious to know what Sassi can do with athletes that all other trainers can't, re Brailsford at team Sky. Basso and Evans top the Giro, Wiggins nowhere (i know it was training but i expected a top 15 from a GT rider)

Brailsford to his credit has not produced race winners in the pro peloton, which one could interpret as a sign of clean racing by his riders. Sassi has produced winners in a peloton that has proven to be doping left right and centre.

Hard to figure:rolleyes:

Now you are taking something out of context. Torri's comments were directed to cycling in general, not at all to Sassi in person. It seems that Sassi has built a good reputation for himself at the Mapei training center in regards to working with athletes without drug use.

If he'e a fraud then he has to be the most cynical guy in the business. I'm as skeptical as the most jaded of tifosi, however, I have reserved a bit of confidence for Aldo. Perhaps I'm only deluding myself, but until there is hard evidence to the contrary I can't see Sassi doping his boys. They may still do it behind his back, but I can't see them finding collaboration with Sassi.
 
May 26, 2010
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rhubroma said:
Now you are taking something out of context. Torri's comments were directed to cycling in general, not at all to Sassi in person. It seems that Sassi has built a good reputation for himself at the Mapei training center in regards to working with athletes without drug use.

If he'e a fraud then he has to be the most cynical guy in the business. I'm as skeptical as the most jaded of tifosi, however, I have reserved a bit of confidence for Aldo. Perhaps I'm only deluding myself, but until there is hard evidence to the contrary I can't see Sassi doping his boys. They may still do it behind his back, but I can't see them finding collaboration with Sassi.

Well, after all his forthright views about who is clean on his team, i would question his ability as a trainer if he cannot see they are doping!!!!!!! if they are.

Italy is one of the biggest doping nations in cycling, you only have to read what Torri says about it all. So for Sassi to be able, in a nation where doping is so prevelant, to produce a clean winner of the Giro has to be doubtful to say the least and this with an ex doper, whose sister has been busted for selling PEDs.

I have no evidence that Sassi's athletes dope, but in the current climate of cycling anyone who wins a GT has to questioned. I want to see Sassi ask for Basso's sample to be sent to Cologne to be tested. I want to see Sassi showing evidence and not the blood passport but other evidence that prove his riders are clean from his Mapei centre.

I am sorry that in cycling nowadays the old adage where you're innocent until proven guilty has long gone, in my opinion.

If Sassi is what he says he is, i'll cheer loudest!
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
Well, after all his forthright views about who is clean on his team, i would question his ability as a trainer if he cannot see they are doping!!!!!!! if they are.

Italy is one of the biggest doping nations in cycling, you only have to read what Torri says about it all. So for Sassi to be able, in a nation where doping is so prevelant, to produce a clean winner of the Giro has to be doubtful to say the least and this with an ex doper, whose sister has been busted for selling PEDs.

I have no evidence that Sassi's athletes dope, but in the current climate of cycling anyone who wins a GT has to questioned. I want to see Sassi ask for Basso's sample to be sent to Cologne to be tested. I want to see Sassi showing evidence and not the blood passport but other evidence that prove his riders are clean from his Mapei centre.

I am sorry that in cycling nowadays the old adage where you're innocent until proven guilty has long gone, in my opinion.

If Sassi is what he says he is, i'll cheer loudest!

So you believe Torri? Cause some ****ed off doped riders told him all dope does it mean it's true? You know if you say orange really quickly, repetitivly, it sounds like gullible?:rolleyes:

His riders go through extra testing at the Mapei centre.

Sassi does not have to prove anything. His riders are not currently on doping charges so if they do all the tests and pass them, they don't have to prove anything to the public so people believe his riders are clean.
Benotti69 said:
Ingleeesh???? from an Antipodean :D

So his work with 2 of the biggest drug Doctors from Italy means nothing!

Cheating is cheating. Anybody with half a brain would know that taking a substance to boost blood is cheating whatever %.

Keep up the name calling it makes you argument very solid!;)

What are you on? I will name call all I like because your arguements are as understandable as mexican logic.

I will still ask you to read the story and comprehend what it is saying. now, if you don't understand any of the words then find a dictionary and look them up! The words in the dictionary are compiled alphabetically!
 
May 26, 2010
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auscyclefan94 said:
So you believe Torri?

Yeah, he is fighting doping.

auscyclefan94 said:
I will name call all I like because your arguements are as understandable as mexican logic.

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Benotti69 said:
Well, after all his forthright views about who is clean on his team, i would question his ability as a trainer if he cannot see they are doping!!!!!!! if they are.

Italy is one of the biggest doping nations in cycling, you only have to read what Torri says about it all. So for Sassi to be able, in a nation where doping is so prevelant, to produce a clean winner of the Giro has to be doubtful to say the least and this with an ex doper, whose sister has been busted for selling PEDs.

I have no evidence that Sassi's athletes dope, but in the current climate of cycling anyone who wins a GT has to questioned. I want to see Sassi ask for Basso's sample to be sent to Cologne to be tested. I want to see Sassi showing evidence and not the blood passport but other evidence that prove his riders are clean from his Mapei centre.

I am sorry that in cycling nowadays the old adage where you're innocent until proven guilty has long gone, in my opinion.

If Sassi is what he says he is, i'll cheer loudest!

Well Italy might be an important doping nation in cycling, but they are doing something about it with CONI. But this is off point.

My point has merely been that I don't believe Sassi dopes his riders and has nothing to do with whether or not Basso won this years Giro clean. He could have been micro-dosing, without Sassi knowing and, so long as long as his performances remained within the parameters of the humanly possible (as opposed to what would only be possible through PEDs), then Sassi's sincerity should be trusted. For his arguments about whether or not a rider is clean are based on wattage output over time near threshold. Sassi claims that on hard mountain stages the maximum humanly possible would be 6.2 watts per kilo. For him if a rider is near, though below, that limit, he can be considered hypothetically clean.

Sassi assumes the testers should be the ones to prove otherwise. So he simply works with the best athletes to get them to maximum potential over the long stage races. Basso's performances fell within the acceptable quota, thus, as far as Sassi can tell, he's clean. Bottom line is it is extremely unlikely that Sassi dopes his athletes. This doesn't mean, however, that they don't on their own, but Sassi beyond going over that threshold would have no way of verifying it.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
Yeah, he is fighting doping.



Forum Rules & Guidelines
It is suggested that all members read this post about forum etiquette. When in doubt, let common sense be your guide, but some people wonder about specifics, so here is a general list of rules or guidelines.

• No insulting other members. This includes counter-insults ("he started it").

get real mate, torri wants to legalise doping and that is not fighting doping.

also if what I have said has deeply offended you but insults like moron and imbecile are used all the time and if you can't take it then toughen up princess!
 
Benotti69 said:

Torri is a man with a certain amount of experience in regards to what he comments on. Thus his words should, by rational thinkers, be taken as a wake-up call for the sport, rather than some inquisition against the innocent. Especially since he's got everything to loose and nothing to gain by saying them. (at his age especially!)

If not everybody is doing it then 95% are. Should we shout out, hypocritcally, for the 5% who aren't instead of against the 95% who are? Sure it's democratic to be hypocritical, but makes us all asses in the process.

In any case, I still don't think Sassi personally dopes his asthletes.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Torri wants to outlaw doping as much as Samaranch (ex IOC pres) did. Samaranch's attitude was to end all doping controls as it effected the perceived holiness of the Olympics. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Just because some bureaucrat can't see a method to fight his way out of a wet paper bag doesn't mean the fight should end. These are vested interests talking...

It's big business, afterall.