Sastre to Retire

[mb2612]

Troll less. The Tour is a valid focus point as that race most often has been his main target of the season. Since he joined CSC he has been a leader or protected rider in the main goal of his season: the tour (this year Geox wasnt invited ofc but thats a whole other story).

Now that doesnt mean he cant transform himself into a pure helper for the Tour in the future, but he hasnt been one since the ONCE days (in the Tour that is). I think it would be great to see him as a super-helper in the last year(s) of his career. Rather that than finishing 15-25 in the GTs while riding for himself.

Well, since 2006 he has been clearly the best climber on his tour team, so you can't expect him to have worked for anyone else there.

And literally the last stage before that, the final mountain stage in 2005, Sastre was working on the front for Basso. As such your argument that he is a bad helper has no merit.

Your claiming that Sastre is not willing to work for people, then ignoring all the cases where he did is not a particularly convincing strategy.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

No, he wasnt. He shared leadership in the sense that he had a free role. He never pulled for Basso but made his own attacks riding his won chance. That Sastre always had a free role /shared leadership on CSC was also one of the reasons that Hamilton had a clash with Riis left for Phonak.

bs.

sastre worked for both hamilton and basso in giro's of 2003-2006

 

[Cimber]

Well, since 2006 he has been clearly the best climber on his tour team, so you can't expect him to have worked for anyone else there.

And literally the last stage before that, the final mountain stage in 2005, Sastre was working on the front for Basso. As such your argument that he is a bad helper has no merit.

Your claiming that Sastre is not willing to work for people, then ignoring all the cases where he did is not a particularly convincing strategy.

I think you have to reread my posts. I NEVER said Sastre was a bad helper at all. But after so many years as a protected rider I can only imagine that it can be a hard decision to step down and become a super domestique. Personally I think it would be a wise decision and would really earn him alot of respect.

But your are correct that he did work for Basso on the last mountain stage in the 2005 Tour when Basso was strugling, but he was a protected rider until stage 14 where he flunked the GC and lost 8mins. He was a protected rider even after losing nearly 5mins on the 1st moutain stage that year. Maybe Riis should have made him a domestique after that 1st MTF but thats a whole other story.

I think it is good that he was a protected rider all those years (well most of them anyways). In 2003 I think it would have been better to make Hamilton the undisputed leader dispite his injury. That year it created alot of tension that Sastre rode away (and esp Riis following him in the car) while Hamilton was struggling alone behind. That was Riis' fault though imo. Maybe Hamilton could have finished on the podium if Riis had made a different call, but then lost a stage win ofc. Riis probably learned from that incident and making Sastre help Basso on that last mountain stage in 2005.

Sastre is(was) an amazing rider to have as a protected rider. He can take perssure of the other leader (Basso, Hamilton). I only wish that in the CSC days Riis would have risked a bit more with Sastre by having him attack earlier on the stage to put max pressure on Lance's team. That way he could end up winning big time (or losing ofc) or atleast burn down Lances team opening up for Basso. Not that it would have changed anything in the end, but would have put things on the edge. Riis tended to play it a tad safe in the early years.

About being the strongest climber, I dunno if I agree totally about that. He is(was) amazing on his best days but usually have a bad day too. In 2008 I dont think he was the best climber on his team. I am confident the Schlecks could have closed the gap, but he was smart and utilized that they were on the same team so when he attacked early (having a great day too btw) they were left locked down as they ofc couldnt work.

Is Riis' book he states that Sastre wanted to come back to CSC/SBS after a bad period at Cervelo. That didnt happen ofc, but it would be amazing to see him back at Riis as super domestique for Contador, helping him beat the Schelcks who he dont really get along with to put it mildly.

 

[Cimber]

bs.

sastre worked for both hamilton and basso in giro's of 2003-2006

In that period he only worked as a domestique on one stage in 2005 for Basso (he did it well though saving Basso' GC on that stage). But eventhough he didnt work as a domestique and was a protected rider instead99% of the time, he was often an impotant tactical assest for the team with his attacks. Esp I remember La Mongie where Sastre attacked and Lance eventuelly had to close the gap with Basso on his weel.

However, the join leadership can have its flipside. In 2003 the internal rivalry between Hamilton and Sastre was a huge problem for the team and was the main reason why Hamilton left. Esp the day Sastre won the stage where Hamilton struggles behind. I remember that documentary showing a disappointed Hamilton discussing it with Riis. A similar rivalry happened in 2008. The result of that was Sastre leaving though. When he did the Giro it was mainly as a build-up race where he was able to help the leader in the meantime so to speak (I dont mean that in a negative sense, only that he didnt show up 100% fit from day one)

EDIT: oh ye u are talking about the Giro. I appologise for not being clear enough but I am focussing on the Tour, which was mostly the main goal for Sastre (the Vuelta seemed to be the secondary which he could maybe have have won a few times had that been his main target considering did very good in that race even after having a Tour in the legs)

 

[buenahora]

Can we stop the Sastre ***** fight? I guess everybody's made their point. If you want to talk about whether Sastre is a domestique or not: get a room!

 

[Cimber]

Can we stop the Sastre ***** fight? I guess everybody's made their point. If you want to talk about whether Sastre is a domestique or not: get a room!

Only if I am arguing with a hot woman But ye lets not derail this further. But on-topic it will be very interesting to see where Sastre ends up. Since he mainly seem to perform in big races I dont really see him going to a continental team.

 

[bicing]

Please, all Sastre domestique talk here

Dear all, I don't mean to go all mod on ya;ll but please cut the Sastre domestieque talk in the Transfers forum and spit it here.

I want to come out and say that Sastre doesn't seem to like being a dom and I think he'd rather retire than dom for someone. However I'd love him to be a super-dom, he would make a good dom and would make races interesting for sure.

 

[Cimber]

am not gonna write more of those long posts on this subject. Think I got my point across in the other thread. But I would love to see him as a super-dom, especially if he comes back to Riis and helps Contador beat the Schlecks, who he loathe. He is still a good rider he just isnt good enough to ride in the top gc in the GTs anymore. Age catches up on everyone, but he still have alot to offer imho.

 

[shadowblue]

am not gonna write more of those long posts on this subject. Think I got my point across in the other thread. But I would love to see him as a super-dom, especially if he comes back to Riis and helps Contador beat the Schlecks, who he loathe. He is still a good rider he just isnt good enough to ride in the top gc in the GTs anymore. Age catches up on everyone, but he still have alot to offer imho.

sastre not a big fan of contador either.

not to mention that sastre's days as being any type of dom are sadly over.

 

[cineteq]

I want to come out and say that Sastre doesn't seem to like being a dom and I think he'd rather retire than dom for someone. However I'd love him to be a super-dom, he would make a good dom and would make races interesting for sure.

He has a big ego, so I doubt he will do it. The way he writes his blog posts suggest he's not a team player. The guy's surely changed after winning the Tour.

 

[luckyboy]

Moved the Sastre talk from the transfers thread into this one.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Sastre is past his prime. That much is clear. So why should he be captain

 

[just some guy]

Sastre is past his prime. That much is clear. So why should he be captain

We know that.

All DS´s know that.

But does Sastre ?

 

[luckyboy]

Do you mean road captain or GC captain? The first is viable, second is not.

If I was in that position I would rather ride on for another year and help out teammates and teach younger riders than retire.

Carlos Sastre isn't me though

 

[Angliru]

He's well past his best yeah, but that doesn't mean he has to retire. He can still be a good domestique and road captain.

I think the worst thing to happen to Sastre, in terms of his attitude to racing, is his Tour win, and the timing of it in his career. He was just reaching the peak of his talents when it occurred and he's been on a gradual decline ever since. His Lombardia performance from last year gave me hope for him in the hilly one day events, but before that the last time he showed any remnants of his old self was at the 2009 Giro, where he took two stages. Since then he's been pretty cranky and his performances have been an example of a riding running on the fumes of his previous successes. He's a classy rider that I've admired for years but it seems that leading up to every event he states how great his form is yet there is no evidence of it in his performance.

Inspite of it all I still have the wonderful memory of him attacking during the 2009 Giro at the exact moment that Armstrong had made a long bridge to the group of elite contenders, being immediately dropped in the process, left to skulk back to his "domestique" duties (that he had momentarily abandoned) for an overmatched Leipheimer. Good times!

 

[Angliru]

That's the point! He never was (or better) was willing to be a domestique (even in single races) at his previous teams (especially late CSC and CTT).
And as far as I know his attitude hasn't changed in this matter!

I don't see any PT-team where he would be a reinforcement.
His poor english skills make it quite difficult to work as a DS in a non-Spain team. But Spanish is a 'big' language in cycling.

He was a willing domestique all the way to his attack on Alpe d'Huez in 2008.
You heard nary a complaint from Sastre until after his Tour win. His "poor English skills" can't be that poor considering he had a regular column in one of the English language magazines several years back and it's doubtful that his English is so bad that it would disallow him from an administrative/managerial position on most teams. He has a wealth of knowledge and experience in the sport but of course he's burned any bridges in working with the Schleck's and probably Riis too.

 

[Angliru]

yeah, i even get the feeling he leaves geox as his own ambitions didn't work out. I'm not sure he is ready to accept himself that he has no business being a leader.

He can still be a leader but what I think he has major issues with and won't accept is his inability to meet his own expectations on the road. I can't see him going back to working as a domestique. The impression I get from him over the past couple of years is that with the Tour win in his palmares, being a domestique is beneath him.

 

[luckyboy]

His English speaking is pretty good compared to most of the Spanish riders I've heard.

 

[cineteq]

The impression I get from him over the past couple of years is that with the Tour win in his palmares, being a domestique is beneath him.

That's the same impression I get by his body language, blogs, website (see top left corner), etc. Remember when Armstrong apologized to him?

 

[luckyboy]

Don't see what the Armstrong thing has to do with this. He was pretty disrespectful towards Sastre.

Can't really blame him for having this either.

Even Oscar Pereiro has a few photos on his Fundacion website.

He seems more humble than arrogant is what I'm saying.

 

[hfer07]

Whatever his decision comes down to-I hope Carlos decides to stick to cycling in any way he sees fit his options-either as a rider of as a DS,Consultant, etc.

If if the end of his career, then I have to thank him for many great memories he's left in Cycling & hoping the best on his new life outside the sport.

 

[cineteq]

Don't see what the Armstrong thing has to do with this. He was pretty disrespectful towards Sastre.

He seems more humble than arrogant is what I'm saying.

It's not about blaming him, it's more about looking into his profile, his body language and his behavioral patterns. Have you read his blogs (in Spanish) and tweets? The bottom line is that the guy's not going to be a domestique. He can act as a domestique though, as he did in La Vuelta.

 

[Angliru]

It's not about blaming him, it's more about looking into his profile, his body language and his behavioral patterns. Have you read his blogs (in Spanish) and tweets? The bottom line is that the guy's not going to be a domestique. He can act as a domestique though, as he did in La Vuelta.

Well I see his (Sastre's) point though. To expect a Tour de France winner to end his career as a domestique is a serious sign of disrespect, and something that Sastre has been subjected to regularly since his win. Unlike Oscar Pereiro, who openly admits that he's not a grand tour contender and that his station was at around the #10 spot in the gc, Sastre was regularly in the top ten in the grand tours and frequently in the top 5 before his ultimate victory.
Regardless of what the Schleck's have to say, Sastre's win was one he deserved and if he had any sour grapes/complaints going the Schleck's way, based on their public whining in the past 2 years, he was very likely telling the truth, and that also goes for Riis and the Saxo squad at the time. The willingness of Riis to pull several riders out of the Vuelta in 2008 while Sastre was battling for his spot in the gc was an example of this lack of respect and due in part to Sastre's public displeasure with the heirarchy at Saxo and where he fell in the ranking.

My memory goes back to just after Sastre's win on Alpe d'Huez and the Schleck's looking more like Saxo Bank had lost the Tour, no evidence of pleasure that a teammate had rescued the team from a likely failure.

 

[afpm90]

I think the worst thing to happen to Sastre, in terms of his attitude to racing, is his Tour win, and the timing of it in his career. He was just reaching the peak of his talents when it occurred and he's been on a gradual decline ever since. His Lombardia performance from last year gave me hope for him in the hilly one day events, but before that the last time he showed any remnants of his old self was at the 2009 Giro, where he took two stages. Since then he's been pretty cranky and his performances have been an example of a riding running on the fumes of his previous successes. He's a classy rider that I've admired for years but it seems that leading up to every event he states how great his form is yet there is no evidence of it in his performance.

Inspite of it all I still have the wonderful memory of him attacking during the 2009 Giro at the exact moment that Armstrong had made a long bridge to the group of elite contenders, being immediately dropped in the process, left to skulk back to his "domestique" duties (that he had momentarily abandoned) for an overmatched Leipheimer. Good times!

You're mistaking Lombardia with San Sebastian. He didn't participate in Giro di Lombardia.

I think Sastre still has some quality for the "minor" stage races and could achieve good results there, like the Tour of Austria this year. He should concentrate in races like these, that's why I think Andalucia or Caja-Rural would be a perfect fit for him.

 

[Angliru]

You're mistaking Lombardia with San Sebastian. He didn't participate in Giro di Lombardia.

I think Sastre still has some quality for the "minor" stage races and could achieve good results there, like the Tour of Austria this year. He should concentrate in races like these, that's why I think Andalucia or Caja-Rural would be a perfect fit for him.

I stand corrected. I'm not sure why I tend to confuse those 2 races. I'm hoping he does go to one of the Pro Continental Spanish teams where he could eventually move into a ds position. He has a great deal he can contribute to the sport and especially to young riders.