Saturday 26th of March: E3 Prijs Vlaanderen - Harelbeke, 201km

[El Pistolero]

Yes there is. We both know if it was the other way around you would be making the point loudly. But it isnt that way. its the other way.

Its like saying that Contador isnt the best Grand Tour rider because he only won the Tour and didnt ride the Vuelta last year.

Cancellara is atm the greatest one day racer on the planet. Doesnt mean hes the greatest at every aspect of one day racing, just the greatest overall.

There is a need to establish who the greatest one day racer just like there is a need to establsh who the greatest sprinter and climber are. And today it was done for us by Spartakus.

All GTS are won only by climbers these days. That's seriously the worst analogy ever made.

If someone can win the Tour(without some big flukes) they can easily win the Giro and the Vuelta if they so desire. If someone can win the Vuelta they more than likely will never win the Tour anyway. Special cases are Contador, but only because he wasn't allowed to ride the Tour.

Just because someone can win the cobbled classics doesn't mean they can win Lombardia or Luik.

The best overall still isn't Cancellara. It's like calling Cavendish the greatest because he's so much better than the second best sprinter.

If you're the best climber in the world you can win all GTs. Apparently the best one day racer in the world can't win Luik, Lombardia, Fleche Wallone or AGR

 

[Arnout]

Yes there is. We both know if it was the other way around you would be making the point loudly. But it isnt that way. its the other way.

Its like saying that Contador isnt the best Grand Tour rider because he only won the Tour and didnt ride the Vuelta last year.

Cancellara is atm the greatest one day racer on the planet. Doesnt mean hes the greatest at every aspect of one day racing, just the greatest overall.

There is a need to establish who the greatest one day racer just like there is a need to establsh who the greatest sprinter and climber are. And today it was done for us by Spartakus.

The Vuelta and the Tour are more similar than the different one-day classics.

Intrinsically, Gillbert is able to win all classics with the possible exception of Paris - Roubaix. Cancellara will never be able to win the Ardennes classics and Lombardia.

 

[Parrulo]

wouldn't it be hilarious if after all this "spartacus best one day racer", "the cobble classics will be boring again" talk canc went to not win any of the 2 races that really matter?

still mighty impressive today.

imho the best one day racer atm is gilbert because he is in contention for the win in like 4 out of the 5 monuments and is the best overall classics rider( not including tt skills here) but thats just my opinion

besides i still hope for boonen to do the double. for the lulz

 

[The Hitch]

The Vuelta and the Tour are more similar than the different one-day classics.

Intrinsically, Gillbert is able to win all classics with the possible exception of Paris - Roubaix. Cancellara will never be able to win the Ardennes classics and Lombardia.

How is Paris Roubaix a "possible exception" for Gilbert while Cancellara will "never win" Ardennes.

Double standards. Gilbert has about as much chance at PR as Canc does at hills. I would argue less.


The reason i am talking about this is because Gilbert fanboy number 002 goes on about how Gilbert is the best one day racer in the world even trying to pretend that AGR is a monument since Gilbert won it.

I think that with another out of this world performance today, Cancellara put that title beyond all doubt. Sure he hasnt shown anything in Liege or Lombardy, but Gilbert hasnt shown anything in PR either.

Still there has to be someone to hold that title and its clear after today (and before actually) who that is.

 

[El Pistolero]

Winning E3 Prijs without Boonen, Gilbert, Flecha makes you the best one day rider in the world? Wow, that's easy.

I never said AGR was a monument. It's on the same level as Fleche and still very prestigious to win. It's you who tries to diminish Phil's wins all the time. I wouldn't have called Boonen the best one day racer in 2005/2006 and Cancellara is just the same story. Best on the cobbles, not best on the hills. If you want to be the best "overall" one day racer in the world you better be able to win on all classics fronts.

I bet Jurgen Roelandts gets the title as second best one day racer now

 

[Lanark]

It's not about winning E3, it's about how he wins. He had several flat tires, one ahead of the Taaienberg, certainly a terrible moment. After the Taaienberg, with a small peloton in his wheel, he single handedly rides back to the first peloton. Then he attacks on the Kwaremont, the race situation was far from ideal, probably 20 to 25 guys in front of him with a big time gap, but he just goes full gas, doesn't ask anyone to pull in the front, probably takes of 1.5 minute of the first guys lead. And after all that work, still being able to win, that's incredible.

And it's not just that, it's the certainty of his win. When he has a couple of seconds lead on Boom on top of the Kwarenmont, you just know Boom will never get back. When Cancellara had a small gap before the Tiegenberg, you know, without a shred of doubt, no one will be able to catch him. Winning in such an impressive way, when it comes to one-day races, there isn't anybody who can get close to him.

The closest thing I can think of in recent years was Andy Schleck's win in Liège, where he dropped the entire peloton on the Roche-aux-Faucons, and won with a 1.5 minute gap. Problem is that Schleck hasn't been able to replicate that result, and is very inconsistant, while Cancellara seemingly does it all the time.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's not about winning E3, it's about how he wins. He had several flat tires, one ahead of the Taaienberg, certainly a terrible moment. After the Taaienberg, with a small peloton in his wheel, he single handedly rides back to the first peloton. Then he attacks on the Kwaremont, the race situation was far from ideal, probably 20 to 25 guys in front of him with a big time gap, but he just goes full gas, doesn't ask anyone to pull in the front, probably takes of 1.5 minute of the first guys lead. And after all that work, still being able to win, that's incredible.

And it's not just that, it's the certainty of his win. When he has a couple of seconds lead on Boom on top of the Kwarenmont, you just know Boom will never get back. When Cancellara had a small gap before the Tiegenberg, you know, without a shred of doubt, no one will be able to catch him. Winning in such an impressive way, when it comes to one-day races, there isn't anybody who can get close to him.

The closest thing I can think of in recent years was Andy Schleck's win in Liège, where he dropped the entire peloton on the Roche-aux-Faucons, and won with a 1.5 minute gap. Problem is that Schleck hasn't been able to replicate that result, and is very inconsistant, while Cancellara seemingly does it all the time.

Actually Cancellara was pretty inconsistent before 2010(just saying because you added the line "all the time").

In 2005/6/7/8/9 he was nowhere to be found in Flemish races and in 2007/2009 he was nowhere to be found in Paris-Roubaix.

Yes, it's about how he wins, on the cobbles.

Quite funny how a lot of you were arguing the Ronde and Roubaix had no competition compared to the hilly classics, but now Cancellara is the best one day racer

Ps: I remember a race called Lombardia where everyone expected a certain someone to win and he did it pretty easily. But of course Lombardia doesn't count because it's a rubbish race, I get it. Don't tell that to Sean Kelly though. Perhaps the last great overall classic specialist there was Or Michele Bartoli.

But there's no doubt on my mind that unless Cancellara has some bad luck he'll win the Ronde. Roubaix might be a different story though as I expect Boonen to be in great shape for that one.

 

[Granville57]

Wait, I forget...which one of these bikes will make me the fastest?

 

[Parrulo]

Wait, I forget...which one of these bikes will make me the fastest?

this one

 

[Lanark]

Actually Cancellara was pretty inconsistent before 2010(just saying because you added the line "all the time").

In 2005/6/7/8/9 he was nowhere to be found in Flemish races and in 2007/2009 he was nowhere to be found in Paris-Roubaix.

Yes, it's about how he wins, on the cobbles.

Yes, compared to Andy Schleck, he seemingly does it all the time. I don't why you suddenly start to talk about Flemish races, because I didn't. His win in Roubaix in 2006 was very impressive, his Milano-Sanremo victory was very impressive in 2008. Cancellara has been gathering impressive winning one day races for over 5 years now, Schleck has only shown that level in a one day race once.

Quite funny how a lot of you were arguing the Ronde and Roubaix had no competition compared to the hilly classics, but now Cancellara is the best one day racer

You're quite right, the cobbled classics have a slightly weaker field. But it's not like he wins them by a hair, when he is in his best shape, he completely dominates them. And it's not like he doesn't get any results in other races outside the cobbles, he wins MSR, has great results in extremely difficult Olympics and World Championship races (and that's not even talking about his time trials and other stage (race) victories). Yes, the cobbled classics don't have the best field, but the way he wins, and his results outside those races, make it plain as day he is the best one day rider.

Ps: I remember a race called Lombardia where everyone expected a certain someone to win and he did it pretty easily. But of course Lombardia doesn't count because it's a rubbish race, I get it. Don't tell that to Sean Kelly though. Perhaps the last great overall classic specialist there was Or Michele Bartoli.

I remember Lomardia as well, really nice victory, but doesn't come close to Cancellara's exploits. If Gilbert wins LBL with a 20 km solo, and doe the same in (for example) the World Championship, we can start this debate again.

But there's no doubt on my mind that unless Cancellara has some bad luck he'll win the Ronde. Roubaix might be a different story though as I expect Boonen to be in great shape for that one.

Funny, I think it's the other way around. I could see him losing Vlaanderen, tactics play quite a big role in that race, and you rarely see long solo's in Vlaanderen. In Roubaix, if he still has this shape of course, I don't see anyone getting close to him, no mather what shape they have.

 

[El Pistolero]

By the way, I think they should return the world cup for one day races
People actually fought to win that one unlike the current World Tour where Contador doesn't give a sh*t about it. And it had a jersey.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yes, compared to Andy Schleck, he seemingly does it all the time. I don't why you suddenly start to talk about Flemish races, because I didn't. His win in Roubaix in 2006 was very impressive, his Milano-Sanremo victory was very impressive in 2008. Cancellara has been gathering impressive winning one day races for over 5 years now, Schleck has only shown that level in a one day race once.
You're quite right, the cobbled classics have a slightly weaker field. But it's not like he wins them by a hair, when he is in his best shape, he completely dominates them. And it's not like he doesn't get any results in other races outside the cobbles, he wins MSR, has great results in extremely difficult Olympics and World Championship races (and that's not even talking about his time trials and other stage (race) victories). Yes, the cobbled classics don't have the best field, but the way he wins, and his results outside those races, make it plain as day he is the best one day rider.
I remember Lomardia as well, really nice victory, but doesn't come close to Cancellara's exploits. If Gilbert wins LBL with a 20 km solo, and doe the same in (for example) the World Championship, we can start this debate again.Funny, I think it's the other way around. I could see him losing Vlaanderen, tactics play quite a big role in that race, and you rarely see long solo's in Vlaanderen. In Roubaix, if he still has this shape of course, I don't see anyone getting close to him, no mather what shape they have.

No tactics will stop Canc next week Unless he has some bad luck he'll win it. Unless Boonen and Gilbert surprise us and can hold on to his wheel and try and outsprint him at the finish line.

I don't think his results outside the cobbles classics are that great(talking about one day races and perhaps stage wins in GTs that aren't a tt) besides San Remo of course. But like I said, any type of cyclist can win that one, but you also need luck and the help of other people(ask Pozatto how he thinks about letting Canc go in 2008, if you doubt a second too long you're screwed).

And everyone knew who had won Lombardia with 35km to go. He only let Scarponi come back out of convenience. It was a good tactic. Lombardia is one of the races were tactic plays a big role.

Gilbert doesn't need to win LBL with a 20km solo or the worlds. He can count on his sprint in a select group. Now you'll probably point to the fact Cancellara has beaten Gilbert in the sprint of San Remo. Well, that was after an all out attack from Gilbert of course and after 300km. I think Gilbert is the fastest sprinter in LBL that has a shot of winning this year. Unless you think I'm forgetting someone? It wouldn't be a smart tactic to go for a 20km solo. A race like Luik also isn't made for that.

 

[The Hitch]

Yes, compared to Andy Schleck, he seemingly does it all the time. I don't why you suddenly start to talk about Flemish races, because I didn't. His win in Roubaix in 2006 was very impressive, his Milano-Sanremo victory was very impressive in 2008. Cancellara has been gathering impressive winning one day races for over 5 years now, Schleck has only shown that level in a one day race once.
You're quite right, the cobbled classics have a slightly weaker field. But it's not like he wins them by a hair, when he is in his best shape, he completely dominates them. And it's not like he doesn't get any results in other races outside the cobbles, he wins MSR, has great results in extremely difficult Olympics and World Championship races (and that's not even talking about his time trials and other stage (race) victories). Yes, the cobbled classics don't have the best field, but the way he wins, and his results outside those races, make it plain as day he is the best one day rider.
I remember Lomardia as well, really nice victory, but doesn't come close to Cancellara's exploits. If Gilbert wins LBL with a 20 km solo, and doe the same in (for example) the World Championship, we can start this debate again.Funny, I think it's the other way around. I could see him losing Vlaanderen, tactics play quite a big role in that race, and you rarely see long solo's in Vlaanderen. In Roubaix, if he still has this shape of course, I don't see anyone getting close to him, no mather what shape they have.

Well said sir.

Well said.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Vaughter's twitter comments show no sign of hope for Garmin. There is no plan, and there is no optimism.

The elimination of race radio's have turned teams into a collection of individuals. Garmin's advantage is now only their odds in two/three favorites, rather than them really being able to act together on a plan. I think many teams will take a long time to adapt to this new situation, and in the meantime, powerful individuals like Cancellara will dominate in the void.

Watching the few highlights I was able to catch, I don't know what anyone can do to stop Spartacus. Although contrary to other posters, I think the next few races will be even more exciting, as riders throw everything they have at him.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Vaughter's twitter comments show no sign of hope for Garmin. There is no plan, and there is no optimism.

The elimination of race radio's have turned teams into a collection of individuals. Garmin's advantage is now only their odds in two/three favorites, rather than them really being able to act together on a plan. I think many teams will take a long time to adapt to this new situation, and in the meantime, powerful individuals like Cancellara will dominate in the void.

Watching the few highlights I was able to catch, I don't know what anyone can do to stop Spartacus. Although contrary to other posters, I think the next few races will be even more exciting, as riders throw everything they have at him.

Throwing anything at him just gives him a springboard for a counter attack. The only way to have a chance is to go all Levi Leipheimer on his back wheel, and never let him get a foot of daylight. And that doesn't make for very exciting racing.

 

[El Pistolero]

Throwing anything at him just gives him a springboard for a counter attack. The only way to have a chance is to go all Levi Leipheimer on his back wheel, and never let him get a foot of daylight. And that doesn't make for very exciting racing.

It actually surprises me some helped him in the chase and tried to attack. I'd have just sucked his wheel all day and annoy him for being too good

But on the other hand, Pozatto has no excuse of sucking Boonen or Gilbert's wheel now. If he wants to come over as believable he'll have to suck Cance's wheel. If he doesn't, I'll totally troll on him for the entire season.

Or I could play an angry tifosi at Paris-Roubaix and make him crash

 

[Christian]

Cancellara has been gathering impressive winning one day races for over 5 years now, Schleck has only shown that level in a one day race once.

Besides his win in Liège he was:

2nd and 9th at Flèche Wallonne
4th in Olympic RR
4th in Giro di Lombardia
4th and 6th in LBL
8th in Montepaschi Eroica
10th in AGR


Anyways ... O'Grady is quite simply the best domestique right now. I'm happy he's got another Top-10 placement and I hope he'll win something big this year!

 

[The Hitch]

Besides his win in Liège he was:

2nd and 9th at Flèche Wallonne
4th in Olympic RR
4th in Giro di Lombardia
4th and 6th in LBL
8th in Montepaschi Eroica
10th in AGR

What a brilliant potential 1 day career thrown away simply to guarantee Tour success.

Maybe if Andrew wins the TOur once or twice he will become a great racer once again.

 

[El Pistolero]

Besides his win in Liège he was:

2nd and 9th at Flèche Wallonne
4th in Olympic RR
4th in Giro di Lombardia
4th and 6th in LBL
8th in Montepaschi Eroica
10th in AGR


Anyways ... O'Grady is quite simply the best domestique right now. I'm happy he's got another Top-10 placement and I hope he'll win something big this year!

His 2008 LBL was damn impressive as well. The only reason he lost that one was because Rebellin rode his entire guts out to bring him back with Bala verde sucking wheel à la Leipheimer.

 

[Christian]

What a brilliant potential 1 day career thrown away simply to guarantee Tour success.

Maybe if Andrew wins the TOur once or twice he will become a great racer once again.

I'm not sure I follow. In 2009 he won a monument and got 3 top-10 placements in other one day races, while finishing 2nd in the Tour. In 2010 he targeted exactly the same races (except maybe Montepaschi) and got 2 Top-10 placements despite early-season injury and ill-timed mechanical errors.

He might not target Lombardia anymore, but I certainly don't think he threw away his one-day career. I'm fairly certain this year he'll be better than in 2010 in the Spring classics

 

[El Pistolero]

I'm not sure I follow. In 2009 he won a monument and got 3 top-10 placements in other one day races, while finishing 2nd in the Tour. In 2010 he targeted exactly the same races (except maybe Montepaschi) and got 2 Top-10 placements despite early-season injury and ill-timed mechanical errors.

He might not target Lombardia anymore, but I certainly don't think he threw away his one-day career. I'm fairly certain this year he'll be better than in 2010 in the Spring classics

Clearly Andrew can win the Ronde and Roubaix some day because of what he did in stage 3 of the Tour this year.

I think you can do well in both Luik, the Tour and Lombardia in one year. But having a lot of peaks in one season isn't one of Andrew's talents and I don't think that will ever change. Luik and the Tour in the same year is very much possible though.

 

[pedaling squares]

What a brilliant potential 1 day career thrown away simply to guarantee Tour success.

Maybe if Andrew wins the TOur once or twice he will become a great racer once again.

Even now, it would be nice to see him have a spring and an autumn peak while still keeping a focus on the TDF. I know Leopard needs le tour to attract more sponsors and fill that massive blank white space on their jersey, but Andy is capable of so much more than yet another second place in one GT.

 

[The Sheep]

I don't think the radio ban makes that big a difference for the smart riders. It just really f**ks the dumb ones.

This is very true

 

[Christian]

Here is the first part of the final:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZCXiaaSpU

Haven't found part 2 yet.

Jut saw Wagner's wheel change --> impressive

 

[jaylew]

Here is the first part of the final:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZCXiaaSpU

Haven't found part 2 yet.

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/user/worldcyclingchannel3#p/u/1/1ctkUu72jnc

Amazing stuff by Canc. The way he just rode through two groups and not one guy could stay on his wheel was incredible.