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Saur-Sojasun for the Tour?

They are French, they have been invited to Paris-Nice, have a decent sprinter in Jimmy Casper and now won the opening race of the French season. Not amazing stuff admittedly, but ASO do have a history of picking small French teams.

I am starting to believe they might be seen as genuine contenders for a Tour place. Is this realistic or just my intelligence level dropping from arguing with CarbaonCrank.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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I'd say they have a slight chance. But very, very slight. Given the number of invites available, a big team would have to be left out for them to get an invite.

And that's not even going into smaller teams like Vacansoleil and Skil
 
Not so long ago, people were scratching their heads to why Big Mat Auber, (who, incidentally are back in the peloton) were given a wildcard, without having a rider of Jimmy Casper's dubious quality.

There will be a surprise, somewhere, in the wildcard receivers.

Take note that the two squads issoisso names, are also invited to the P-N....
 
Mar 18, 2009
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But the top talent wasn't nearly as divided back then. Now there are more "top teams". As for Vacansolei and Milram being invited for P-N, ASO have said they're experimenting with different teams at diferent races. Some will get invites in some races, others in other races. Note that those two teams are only in P-N because Footon and Milram aren't....and Footon and Milram are guaranteed of a Tour invite for being in the 16-team agreement.
 
issoisso said:
But the top talent wasn't nearly as divided back then. Now there are more "top teams". As for Vacansolei and Milram being invited for P-N, ASO have said they're experimenting with different teams at diferent races. Some will get invites in some races, others in other races. Note that those two teams are only in P-N because Footon and Milram aren't....and Footon and Milram are guaranteed of a Tour invite for being in the 16-team agreement.

Footon are definites for the Tour!!! I would rather have Saur-Sojasun anyday. I dont think Skil-Shimano have a prayer of making it to the Tour this year without some impressive perfromances beforehand. Agree with Mello in that ASO are capable of picking a poor French team ahead of others.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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At the end of the day the Tour de France is just that - the French national tour. Why shouldn't ASO choose French teams to compete, especially since this surely gives them the opportunity to race against quality opposition and improve?
 
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Kazistuta said:
Saur-Sojasun will replace Skil in this years tour. Two of Skil-Shimanos top French guys (the aforementioned Hivert and Cyril Lemoine) from last season are now at Stephane Heulots team...

And which ProTour team/top continental team will be left out for that to happen?
 
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Mellow Velo said:
Team Carboncrank, when those 7 DNA samples come home to roost!:D

Oh how I wish!

Mellow Velo said:
Are we setting

Interesting. Never heard that expression before


Mellow Velo said:
, or do we know the definitive number of invites?

ASO have yet to decide if there will be 22 or 20, but have publicly admitted 22 are far more likely. And the following 16 are guaranteed by the participation agreement

AG2R La Mondiale
Astana
Bbox Bouygues Telecom
Caisse d’Epargne
Cofidis, le Crédit en ligne
Euskaltel - Euskadi
Française des Jeux
Footon-Servetto
Katusha Team
Lampre-Farnese Vini
Liquigas-Doimo
Omega Pharma-Lotto
Quick Step
Rabobank
Team HTC-Columbia
Team Milram
Team Saxo Bank


Which means.....

Scratch three of the below:


BMC
Cervelo Test Team
Garmin-Transitions
Saur-Sojasun
Skil-Shimano
Team Radio Shack
Team Sky
Vacansoleil Pro Cycling Team


Knowing this, it becomes easy. Scratch Skil, Saur and Vacansoleil.
 
Actually according to the CN article on the matter Katyusha/Katusha/Kaiowa isn't already secured a spot, which means the last spot is open (while I concur that Garmin, Sky, Cervelo, Radioshack and BMC will get a spot - the latter only if Cuddles decides to show, though). The last spot will then be rewarded to either Vacansoleil or Saur, is my guess. Vacansoleil doesn't offer something Cofidis, Bbox, Ag2r and Saur can't as well (opportunistic aggresive TV riding) and Stephane Heulots team offer more national pride than Hoogerland, Bozic and Westra can...

Katushas best wild card "weapons" are Rodriguez (most likely aiming at either giro or vuelta) and Kirchen/McEwen, both with injury-plagued seasons last year.
I think BMC should "fold" and let Evans go for the giro/vuelta, which would seriously affect their chances for a tour wild card, but IMO they'd be better off this season.
 
Kazistuta said:
Actually according to the CN article on the matter Katyusha/Katusha/Kaiowa isn't already secured a spot, which means the last spot is open (while I concur that Garmin, Sky, Cervelo, Radioshack and BMC will get a spot - the latter only if Cuddles decides to show, though). The last spot will then be rewarded to either Vacansoleil or Saur, is my guess. Vacansoleil doesn't offer something Cofidis, Bbox, Ag2r and Saur can't as well (opportunistic aggresive TV riding) and Stephane Heulots team offer more national pride than Hoogerland, Bozic and Westra can...

Katushas best wild card "weapons" are Rodriguez (most likely aiming at either giro or vuelta) and Kirchen/McEwen, both with injury-plagued seasons last year.
I think BMC should "fold" and let Evans go for the giro/vuelta, which would seriously affect their chances for a tour wild card, but IMO they'd be better off this season.

Vancansoleil have Brice and Romain Feillu. Feillu the Elder was the last Frenchman to wear the yellow jersey and Brice of course won a good stage with a classy performance and has said he wants to go seriously for the polka dot jersey. It's a potent duo to have for wild card purposes, and I certainly wouldn't count them out for it.

Although I have to agree with the rest on Skil and Saur. Saur might be all French (and the attractiveness of a 9-man French team cannot be discounted) but I just don't think that they've got the team talent-wise.
 
issoisso said:
ASO have yet to decide if there will be 22 or 20, but have publicly admitted 22 are far more likely. And the following 16 are guaranteed by the participation agreement

Milram and Footon are two teams that I'd leave out. And maybe Lampre too - can't see what they'll do at the Tour.

They should have 24 teams of 8 or something. More fun for everyone!

Realistically, I can see Skil being left out, along with Saur. And if George and Cadel aren't gonna want to go, BMC too.
 
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Kazistuta said:
Actually according to the CN article on the matter Katyusha/Katusha/Kaiowa isn't already secured a spot, which means the last spot is open

They're in the teams' agreement with ASO. They're in as long as they want to ride. Which they do.

luckyboy said:
Milram and Footon are two teams that I'd leave out. And maybe Lampre too - can't see what they'll do at the Tour.

Again, they're in the agreement. The only chance they won't have an invite is if the sponsor pulls out midseason and the team disappears.
 
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luckyboy said:
I know but I was just saying what I'd do personally.

Oh, I'm sorry.

luckyboy said:
Anyway, wonder how much of a chance CarmioOro will get to go to the Giro? I mean, their team isn't very good and they have Sella, but Flaminia's team isn't great and they have Ricco..

Are you saying that Riccò and Sella make their teams less likely to be invited?

Because with Zomegnan, doping isn't an issue. I'd say both teams have a reasonable chance. But they're certainly in direct competition with each other.
 
issoisso said:
Are you saying that Riccò and Sella make their teams less likely to be invited?

Because with Zomegnan, doping isn't an issue. I'd say both teams have a reasonable chance. But they're certainly in direct competition with each other.

I had a thought in my head that CarmioOro would be less likely to get invited, don't really know why. Don't really know too much about Zomegnan. Miche too with Rasmussen on board?
 
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luckyboy said:
I had a thought in my head that CarmioOro would be less likely to get invited, don't really know why. Don't really know too much about Zomegnan. Miche too with Rasmussen on board?

If doping swayed Zomegnan, Ventoso would be another blow for their chances. But he really doesn't, other than getting VERY annoyed every time someone starts asking questions about an obvious doper.

Miche doesn't have a wild-card. They can't ride World Calendar races.
 
issoisso said:
Again, they're in the agreement. The only chance they won't have an invite is if the sponsor pulls out midseason and the team disappears.
I'm not sure ASO will see Footon-Servetto-Fuji as the successor of Fuji-Servetto. How many of those riders are now still riding for Footon-S-F? If ASO wants to add Saur or Vacansoleil, they might drop Footon regardless the aforementioned agreement.
 
janraaskalt said:
I'm not sure ASO will see Footon-Servetto-Fuji as the successor of Fuji-Servetto. How many of those riders are now still riding for Footon-S-F? If ASO wants to add Saur or Vacansoleil, they might drop Footon regardless the aforementioned agreement.

Footon are almost a completely different team to Fuji, the problem is they are rubbish.
 
janraaskalt said:
I'm not sure ASO will see Footon-Servetto-Fuji as the successor of Fuji-Servetto. How many of those riders are now still riding for Footon-S-F? If ASO wants to add Saur or Vacansoleil, they might drop Footon regardless the aforementioned agreement.
If there's a contract, I don't think ASO can do that. They'd probably like to, but they can't.
 
theyoungest said:
If there's a contract, I don't think ASO can do that. They'd probably like to, but they can't.
Is it a contract or an agreement? Either way, the question is whether Footon is a team having signed that contract or a new team? If it is the same team, which in my opinion it is not, it is still the team having had 2 dopingcases in 2008 and was excluded from the Tour in 2009. If it isn't, well that's clear, they're not a part of the agreement.
 
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Kazistuta said:
Could you give me a link, isso?

Because the article on cyclingfans says the same as Cyclingnews, no guarantee for Katusha:

http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/554

And if the agreement from 2008 is the one you're referring to, Katusha wasn't anything more than a continental team at that time.

Correct, they were known as Tinkoff.

Cadel has also stated that he wants to ride the Tour.
 

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