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Saxo Bank crumbling?

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Okay... I changed my mind about it being a good thing if the pro-tour team disolved... :rolleyes:
But maybe team Saxobank (or team ISS Or team Whatever-they're-gonna-be-named) can move towards the Danes being the stars. As it is now there's no doubt Schlecks are the big stars of the team. (even though they during an interview two years ago said they didn't consider themselves stars... either they, in the two year period, has begun consider themselves stars or they're a little bit too humble...)
Of course there's a guy like "Birdie" who might also be on his way... he might be one of the biggest Danish talents currently...

As for some of the other big foreign riders:
Cancellara; Well... he's more the guy for prologues and classics, not sure if he's really a GT GC guy...
Voigt; Getting old. But I wouldn't be too surprised if he landed himself a behind-the-scenes job (I can just picture him sitting him the team-car (with his coffee) goading the riders on (hoping there'll be a break so he can go to the front...)
Richie Porte; Proved during the Giro that he can be a GC contender but of course a team shouldn't be riding for a rider based on nationality but skills
 
May 15, 2009
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issoisso said:
Tchmil said that according to the teams' accounts that the UCI checked before issuing licenses, only Sky comes close to Katusha's enormous budget.

Remember what Stapleton said about Hagen? That they couldn't match Sky's offer because it was more than double what Columbia's best paid rider is on?

Really? I read somewhere that Hagen got about 1m/year from sky and Cavendish earned about 1.5m/year in Columbia.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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i dont know what to say. strange timing.

why couldn’t everyone be more professional and put off the public breaking out by 4 weeks ?

if bros had the needed influence and leadership on the team, that would be in their prime interest..

obviously they don’t.:(
 
Aug 11, 2009
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I think the big winner in the Schlecks' departure from Saxo Bank will be Chris Anker.

Given another season, that guy could go after some really big mountain results (i.e. even bigger than what he's already done), but he'll need the freedom of not having a potential Tour winner in his team. I think he's a much better climber than Moncoutie, Egoi Martinez, and the rest of the opportunist polka dot candidates.
 
This always happens. As soon as a team's stars decide they've waited long enough and it's time to find a new team, everyone else in the team follows suit. Riis will have trouble putting together anything but a modest Danish Continental-quality team with a small budget.
 
hrotha said:
This always happens. As soon as a team's stars decide they've waited long enough and it's time to find a new team, everyone else in the team follows suit. Riis will have trouble putting together anything but a modest Danish Continental-quality team with a small budget.

Yes, this will probably be the case. The problem with forming a new team is that most riders are still under contract so it's a very limited rider pool to choose from. We saw this with Sky who had to go to great lengths to get thier most wanted rider and Radioshack solved the problem by stripping Astana of their talent.

It would be interesting to know exactly what top riders will be out of contract by next year.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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Devolder is one rider looking for a contract. I would think that he's fairly high-priced but nowhere near the sort of megabucks signing that a Schleck/Cancellara/Contador/Cavendish would be. Maybe Riis can pick him up even without securing an equal level of sponsorship for next year, just as long as somebody decides to back the team.

I know Devolder fits best with a Belgian set-up, but I haven't heard too much to suggest he'd go to Lotto (though that would be interesting with Gilbert and Devolder both as attackers), and I think he'd do better staying away from a smaller outfit like Vacansoleil.

It would be pretty impressive to see him riding the Classics with Cancellara and Breschel. Especially since Devolder's best Classics results have come while riding with a bigger star. His late-break style definitely benefits from having other riders focusing on a high-profile teammate.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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I think Kreuziger may be on the market, as well, since there had been some talk about him going to Lotto next year. He seems like a potential Riis GC project much the same way that Basso was in '04-'05. With Basso and Nibali clearly being the priorities at Liquigas (and clearly being the most marketable prospects for an essentially all-Italian team), I see little reason for Kreuziger to stick around at Liquigas.
 
ergmonkey said:
I think Kreuziger may be on the market, as well, since there had been some talk about him going to Lotto next year. He seems like a potential Riis GC project much the same way that Basso was in '04-'05. With Basso and Nibali clearly being the priorities at Liquigas (and clearly being the most marketable prospects for an essentially all-Italian team), I see little reason for Kreuziger to stick around at Liquigas.

they havent been bad to him. He gets leadership pretty much whenever he wants it. Hes won the 2 swiss stage races with them. This year he aimed for the paris nice and was captain there, and is aiming for the tour and will be captain there (even if it is joint with basso).
And hes unlikely to find anywhere, the same kind of class backing him as he has at liquigas, probably the best team overall atm.
Then again, possibly the one place which can offer him as many class domestiques as liquigas is saxo bank so i can see why he might leave.
 
Well, if Riis gets his sponsorship from ISS (or Sungard or whatever) in the next week AND if the Sclecks (and maybe Fuglsang) goes to Lux in the end, then this could be a very, very busy tour on the business side as well... Probably the reason he doesn't want Andersen in DS car. Two DS's trying to negotiate with potentially the same riders but for two different teams!

I don't believe all the conspiracy theories going on. To me it looks quite simple: Nygaard had something going, he wanted Andersen and knew that Riis could/would never be able to be a part of that as he's already got his team. I don't think for one second there's a rider-rift in the team. They'd be happy to be on either team, but the Lux team is prob going to very interesting. I'm not so sure Fuglsang is completely sold on the Lux thing yet. He's prob waiting to see where he would get the biggest role+money for the coming season. With Schlecks away from Saxo he could be the main GT contender on the team if there are no new big signings.

Also I'm not buying the "Sastre was treated badly and nobody likes Riis" angle. If anybody cares to remember the Schlecks were quite vocal against Sastre in the aftermath. Frank was in yellow and in just a good position as Sastre to take the tour in 08 when Sastre took the win on Alpe D'Huez. Officially there were 3 leaders (well maybe not Andy, but at least two then) on the team going into the tour, albeit Sastre the main one. Riis had many times asked Sastre to step up to the plate and show it if he considered himself the true leader. The thing is that Saxo is a team for the team, not for the individual and if any of the current riders didn't thrive on that they would have left long ago...
 
ergmonkey said:
Devolder is one rider looking for a contract. I would think that he's fairly high-priced but nowhere near the sort of megabucks signing that a Schleck/Cancellara/Contador/Cavendish would be. Maybe Riis can pick him up even without securing an equal level of sponsorship for next year, just as long as somebody decides to back the team.

I know Devolder fits best with a Belgian set-up, but I haven't heard too much to suggest he'd go to Lotto (though that would be interesting with Gilbert and Devolder both as attackers), and I think he'd do better staying away from a smaller outfit like Vacansoleil.

It would be pretty impressive to see him riding the Classics with Cancellara and Breschel. Especially since Devolder's best Classics results have come while riding with a bigger star. His late-break style definitely benefits from having other riders focusing on a high-profile teammate.
Vacansoleil were arguably stronger in the Flandrian classics than Quick-Step this year, so I don't know why Devolder should think twice about going there.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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The Hitch said:
they havent been bad to him. He gets leadership pretty much whenever he wants it. Hes won the 2 swiss stage races with them. This year he aimed for the paris nice and was captain there, and is aiming for the tour and will be captain there (even if it is joint with basso).
And hes unlikely to find anywhere, the same kind of class backing him as he has at liquigas, probably the best team overall atm.
Then again, possibly the one place which can offer him as many class domestiques as liquigas is saxo bank so i can see why he might leave.

For sure, Liquigas have not been bad to him, and he has not been bad to Liquigas. I admire both parties for maintaining the relationship as well as they have.

But, I still think that a lot of that patience and goodwill must have stemmed from a sense that Kreuziger was paying his dues and doing his apprenticeship as a young rider--and that he wasn't physically ready for GC leadership, anyway. I would imagine that this has to change as he gets closer to his peak years, and I would also imagine that such a change can't really happen at Liquigas where Basso will be playing the national hero for the next two years and then be expected to pass the torch to Nibali.

So, I think an amicable parting of ways would make sense at this point. I especially think that Basso's Giro triumph presses the issue. It would make a lot more sense for Kreuziger and Liquigas to part now rather than to allow some sort of Cavendish v. Greipel catfight to potentially fester in a great team set-up.

I also don't think Liquigas have the money to keep Kreuziger forever. They're big budget, but not that big budget. Especially if they want to hold onto essential supporters like Szymd.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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hrotha said:
This always happens. As soon as a team's stars decide they've waited long enough and it's time to find a new team, everyone else in the team follows suit. Riis will have trouble putting together anything but a modest Danish Continental-quality team with a small budget.

That's not going to happen. It's either Pro Tour or no team at all. Riis won't accept anything else.

Anyway, ISS has broken off the negotiations - but before that was announced, it was reported that the team is negotiating with GN ReSound (A Danish company, doing the same as Phonak ;)). The company neither deny or confirm the negotiations.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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theyoungest said:
Vacansoleil were arguably stronger in the Flandrian classics than Quick-Step this year, so I don't know why Devolder should think twice about going there.

Vacansoleil were great in the Classics this year. But, they had the benefit of getting "breakthrough" and "surprise" results. I'm not saying those results were undeserved; but, achieving the same thing with a massive target on your back is a whole different proposition. I am not sure that a heavily-marked rider like Devolder would enjoy his stay at Vacansoleil.

Also, to put it in perspective, if a relatively unheralded rider at Vacansoleil had produced Tom Boonen's results this spring, we'd all be talking about what a complete monster the guy is--and not what an underwhelming spring he and his team had.

You're right that Quickstep had an off-year in the Classics; but, that's mostly because Devolder himself wasn't up to snuff. If Devolder was as close to his personal best as Boonen was this spring, then I think Quickstep would have been much more of a force.

Either way, neither Vacansoleil nor Quickstep had anything like the combined strength of Breschel and Cancellara this spring. Add Devolder to that mix and it starts to look like the Pozzato/Bettini/Boonen domination of Flanders '06.

I don't want to stress the difference of opinion too much, though; I still think you're right that Vacansoleil were very strong and could support Devolder as well or better than most teams--plus Devolder fits in perfectly with their sponsors' interests.
 
ergmonkey said:
Vacansoleil were great in the Classics this year. But, they had the benefit of getting "breakthrough" and "surprise" results. I'm not saying those results were undeserved; but, achieving the same thing with a massive target on your back is a whole different proposition. I am not sure that a heavily-marked rider like Devolder would enjoy his stay at Vacansoleil.

Also, to put it in perspective, if a relatively unheralded rider at Vacansoleil had produced Tom Boonen's results this spring, we'd all be talking about what a complete monster the guy is--and not what an underwhelming spring he and his team had.

You're right that Quickstep had an off-year in the Classics; but, that's mostly because Devolder himself wasn't up to snuff. If Devolder was as close to his personal best as Boonen was this spring, then I think Quickstep would have been much more of a force.

Either way, neither Vacansoleil nor Quickstep had anything like the combined strength of Breschel and Cancellara this spring. Add Devolder to that mix and it starts to look like the Pozzato/Bettini/Boonen domination of Flanders '06.

I don't want to stress the difference of opinion too much, though; I still think you're right that Vacansoleil were very strong and could support Devolder as well or better than most teams--plus Devolder fits in perfectly with their sponsors' interests.
No one thinks Boonen did a bad classics season. The rest of his team did, however. Including Devolder himself, yes. Vacansoleil, as a team, were simply stronger. I think Devolder would be better off there than in a team with both Cancellara and Breschel.

And as for the "surprise" and "breakthrough" factor with Vacansoleil: Leukemans had the best results for them, which was hardly a breakthrough.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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I really hope saxo can stay together. It would be a real shame if they all split. Though it does not sound too good esp. after the way Bjarne is talking.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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theyoungest said:
And as for the "surprise" and "breakthrough" factor with Vacansoleil: Leukemans had the best results for them, which was hardly a breakthrough.

Leukemans had good results before this year, including 8th in Flanders and 4th in Brabantse Pijl in '09. But, he never put together a year anything like 2010, where he went 2nd in Dwars Door Vlaanderen, 7th in E3, 4th in Flanders, 6th in Roubaix, and 7th in Brabantse Pijl. You can check out more results at:

http://www.cyclingarchives.com/coureuruitslagenfiche.php?coureurid=4138

If you don't think 2010 was a "breakthrough" for Leukemans then we're just splitting semantic hairs. I think he had his best season ever by a longshot, even if we already knew he was a solid rider, and I'd call that a breakthrough. Tell me that you put money down ahead of April on him producing these results and then I'll just say that you're right.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Kazistuta said:
I've grown rather fond of the two Schlecks over the years, but actually I wouldn't mind them leaving for another team and Riis to acquire a new sponsor, since that would leave room for some interesting new names. Spartacus and Schleckalitoes have had a major dip in the Saxobank money pool, and when supporters are supposed to be delighted about a signing of Baden Cooke (with all due respect) I think it says it all about the general economic situation on the team.

Let's have Brajkovic, Bakelandts, Bonnet, Michael Matthews, Westra, Jelte Slagter, Rui Costa or other interesting names... *drooling*

I agree with you! The Schlecks and Cancellara leaving opens at least twice as many new spots on Riis' team. And say what you will of Riis, he's always proved to have a good look out for new talents, he was the one who made Basso, Cancellara, the Schlecks what they are today ... I'm excited to see whom he'll pull out of the hat. It'll probably take a couple of years for his new team to come back to the level where Saxo Bank was but I have no doubt that he can do it. A German Eurosport speaker once said that when Riis wants one of your riders, that's the one you probably shouldn't let go.


ScottinPhilly said:
Maybe I'm jumping the gun by I see this as the continuation of a trend of "national" teams being formed. The majority of high quality US talent is on 3 US sponsored teams. Sky went after the British talent. Rumors last month were about Leferve wanting to merge QS and Omega to form a Belgian super-team. We've also read rumors about AC going to a Spanish based team and Menchov being targeted by Katousha. This is either a real trend that is developing for economic and nationalist reasons or in Saxo's case the result of Riis' failure to bring a new sponsor on board and the riders not wanting to be "caught out" in what will probably be another very active transfer season.

This is definitely true in my opinion, and I don't see it as a good evolution. Of course a new team is always welcome but it shouldn't always have this nationalism mixed into it. It has much to do with publicity and economics in my opinion - just imagine being the luxembourgish sponsor when (if) Andy wins the TdF.

However in this specific case it doesn't really make all that much sense because there is such a limited number of luxembourgish riders! There are 5 right now, among which 2 are neo-pro's and one is likely never to ride again. In addition, one of the neo-pro's already has a contract for next year (but as Wiggins showed us that doesn't always mean all that much). Sure there is some talent coming up but again it's only 1 or 2 riders who might become pro, not more.

riobonito92 said:
An unfortunate precedent has been set by Sky and Radioshack. Big money, short term goals, 100% focus on the TdF - and "lesser" teams with traditions, year round racing and development programmes get shunted aside. Will it be bye-bye Lampre? or Lotto?

Agreed! All those teams, as you say, with big money and short-time goals, are doomed to fail in my opinion. That's just not how it works - you need to start out small and always develop over the years until some day you're able to compete in GTs and classics, monuments, etc. And not only in 1 GT because that's where the money is.
I really dislike these teams and I sincerely hope this new Luxembourg team does not become like Sky or RadioShack, however they probably are. A positive example would be Katusha: have a sh*tload of money but have been taking it slow and kept humble, so far no really big transfers, and now the team is ready for Menchov to come.

CrueTrue said:
I still think it's too early to completely write off Riis Cycling.

You should never write off Bjarne Riis in my opinion! Wouldn't be surprised at all if he comes up with a TdF winner in the next 5 years.

JPM London said:
I'm not so sure Fuglsang is completely sold on the Lux thing yet. He's prob waiting to see where he would get the biggest role+money for the coming season. With Schlecks away from Saxo he could be the main GT contender on the team if there are no new big signings.

Also I'm not buying the "Sastre was treated badly and nobody likes Riis" angle.

Agree ... and agree! I think Fuglsang is the biggest talent in Saxo Bank, he can be a serious GT contender in a couple of years, could definitely win Tour de Suisse or Paris-Nice for example. He is the one who profits most of the Schlecks leaving Saxo. C.A. Sorensen was supposed to be the leader at this year's Giro but couldn't really compete for the win due to injury, so maybe we'll see both of them as leaders for Riis' team next year.

Also when Sastre left he talked a whole bunch of cr*p about Riis and the Schlecks, don't know what to believe or whom to believe, but the fact of the matter is that he won the Tour de France so I don't really see why he's complaining. I don't believe that no one likes Riis, all of that speculation just comes from what Sastre said, I've never heard any other riders complaining about him.

theyoungest said:
I think Devolder would be better off there than in a team with both Cancellara and Breschel.

I think the Schlecks will either take Cancellara or Breschel to their new team, depending on how big the budget is. I can't imagine the two of them riding in the same team together next year, Breschel is simply getting too strong to be kept back by Cancellara.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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While Bjarne Riis was apparently in Denmark watching the RR, Kim Andersen was seen in Luxembourg (although he had, at that point, already been sacked by Riis):

d7f9438998b86d75f213c2a3bff26508.jpeg


... and here is another:

http://pressphoto.rtl.lu/photo?id=27427&context=search&param[q]=Cyclisme%2Cchampionnat&_i=119&_c=9
 
It's not a matter of Riis being unable to find new talent to replace the Schlecks, it's a matter of him finding a strong sponsor now that he doesn't have the Schlecks and everyone else must be itching to leave the ship while they can still find something good for next season. The Tour is where most dealings take place, after that it may well be too late. It's not uncommon to see even Vuelta winners struggling to find the right team because everybody already has their rosters more or less closed and there's not a lot of money to accommodate any more big names. That means the likes of Cancellara, Chris Sørensen, Fuglsang and Breschel need to move now, and once they're gone, what chances does Riis have?
 
Christian said:
While Bjarne Riis was apparently in Denmark watching the RR, Kim Andersen was seen in Luxembourg (although he had, at that point, already been sacked by Riis):

d7f9438998b86d75f213c2a3bff26508.jpeg

Whoah! I did not know that Kevin Costner is friends with the Schlecks. Those boys done gone Hollywood.
 
Franck and Andy Schleck has long known about the plans for a new cycling team based in Luxembourg.

http://tour2010.tv2.dk/article.php/id-31737864:schleck-har-kendt-holdplaner-længe.html

http://translate.google.com/transla...aner-l%C3%A6nge.html&sl=da&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

----------------------------------------------------------

It has consequences for Frank Schleck, his half a year knew about plans for a new cycling team without informing his boss Bjarne Riis.
- I will now review the case of Frank Schleck, which, I must have a serious talk with him. When I had the talk, I report out what they get from consequences, says Bjarne Riis to TV 2 Sports.


http://tour2010.tv2.dk/article.php/id-31738206:riis-truer-fränk-schleck.html

http://translate.google.com/transla...d-31738206:riis-truer-fr%C3%A4nk-schleck.html
 
May 10, 2010
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CrueTrue said:
I still think it's too early to completely write off Riis Cycling.

Yesterday evening, tv2sport.dk reported that the team is negotiating with the Danish company ISS, one of the world's leading Facility Services Groups.

I wouldn't be surprised if Riis had leaked that himself to put some positive light on the team (and perhaps, it has some positive effect on the riders who are soon allowed to start negotiating with other teams...).

I also wouldn't be suprised to see one of the new young guns being signed by Riis, someone like Kreuziger or Boassen Hagen?

Bernad Eisel's a shoe in if you ask me, with him being led by Sparticus and O'Grady Cav would be worried.
 
May 15, 2009
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plodderbob said:
I also wouldn't be suprised to see one of the new young guns being signed by Riis, someone like Kreuziger or Boassen Hagen?

Bernad Eisel's a shoe in if you ask me, with him being led by Sparticus and O'Grady Cav would be worried.

Umm, Eisel seems to be more likely staying in Columbia and he prefers to the classics. Goss left Saxo Bank because of Cance and Breschel.