Saxo Bank crumbling?

[Chef_Vodnik]

Franck and Andy Schleck has long known about the plans for a new cycling team based in Luxembourg.

http://tour2010.tv2.dk/article.php/id-31737864:schleck-har-kendt-holdplaner-længe.html

http://translate.google.com/transla...aner-l%C3%A6nge.html&sl=da&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

----------------------------------------------------------

It has consequences for Frank Schleck, his half a year knew about plans for a new cycling team without informing his boss Bjarne Riis.
- I will now review the case of Frank Schleck, which, I must have a serious talk with him. When I had the talk, I report out what they get from consequences, says Bjarne Riis to TV 2 Sports.


http://tour2010.tv2.dk/article.php/id-31738206:riis-truer-fränk-schleck.html

http://translate.google.com/transla...d-31738206:riis-truer-fr%C3%A4nk-schleck.html

If they discipline Frank but take it easy on Andy, this has just gone full ***. Kim Andersen himself said he approached them during the ToS, while that newspaper claims he approached them earlier this year, but fail to provide.
Screenshot or it didn't happen, as they say.

 

[ulrikmm]

As pointed out earlier, Bjarne Riis is a fighter. He n e v e r gives up. He has a history of spotting the great talents, when he needs them. Things look dark - but anything can still happen.

If I were him, and if I had proof that the lux brothers can not be trusted, I would consider withdrawing them from the TdF and sign Rasmussen!

 

[Christian]

Franck and Andy Schleck has long known about the plans for a new cycling team based in Luxembourg.

http://tour2010.tv2.dk/article.php/id-31737864:schleck-har-kendt-holdplaner-længe.html

http://translate.google.com/transla...aner-l%C3%A6nge.html&sl=da&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

----------------------------------------------------------

It has consequences for Frank Schleck, his half a year knew about plans for a new cycling team without informing his boss Bjarne Riis.
- I will now review the case of Frank Schleck, which, I must have a serious talk with him. When I had the talk, I report out what they get from consequences, says Bjarne Riis to TV 2 Sports.


http://tour2010.tv2.dk/article.php/id-31738206:riis-truer-fränk-schleck.html

http://translate.google.com/transla...d-31738206:riis-truer-fr%C3%A4nk-schleck.html

All this Flavio Becca stuff was already brought up in around March/April of this year, when it was rumoured he would finance a transfer of the Schlecks to BMC.

The e-mail they show in the TV-clip looks very real, but the sole fact that this rich entrepreneur approached F. Schleck isn't really that big of a deal IMO, they must have gotten quite a few offers from other teams this season and didn't have to tell Bjarne of all of them.

Do they say what the content of the e-mail was? I did not understand a single word, didn't know Danish was so close to Chinese

 

[Cobblestones]

As pointed out earlier, Bjarne Riis is a fighter. He n e v e r gives up. He has a history of spotting the great talents, when he needs them. Things look dark - but anything can still happen.

If I were him, and if I had proof that the lux brothers can not be trusted, I would consider withdrawing them from the TdF and sign Rasmussen!

Would be awesome to see Contador and Rasmussen slugging it out again on the slopes. Then add Lance and Vino ...

How do you think Valverde might feel?

No. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[B.Rasmussen]

All this Flavio Becca stuff was already brought up in around March/April of this year, when it was rumoured he would finance a transfer of the Schlecks to BMC.

The e-mail they show in the TV-clip looks very real, but the sole fact that this rich entrepreneur approached F. Schleck isn't really that big of a deal IMO, they must have gotten quite a few offers from other teams this season and didn't have to tell Bjarne of all of them.

Do they say what the content of the e-mail was? I did not understand a single word, didn't know Danish was so close to Chinese

They claim that Kim Andersen and the Schlecks (according to their source) were at a meeting in Luxembourg late January discussing the new team, and they say they have proof (the email) from april 30th where the organisation and economy was discussed, this was sent to Fränk Schleck.

KA when asked about the meeting in january, said that he couldn't recall if he had a meeting in Luxembourg at that time. When asked if the Schlecks were approached earlier than the TdS he avoids to answer by stating that there was made a concrete offer at the TdS.

Fränk Schleck refused to comment when they called him.

 

[Cobblestones]

They claim that Kim Andersen and the Schlecks (according to their source) were at a meeting in Luxembourg late January discussing the new team, and they say they have proof (the email) from april 30th where the organisation and economy was discussed, this was sent to Fränk Schleck.

KA when asked about the meeting in january, said that he couldn't recall if he had a meeting in Luxembourg at that time. When asked if the Schlecks were approached earlier than the TdS he avoids to answer by stating that there was made a concrete offer at the TdS.

Fränk Schleck refused to comment when they called him.

That's not going to lift the team spirit. Doesn't bode well for the TdF.

 

[filipo]

If this is the end of CSC/Saxo, it will be very sad, yet Riis can hold his head high. The team has the best results of any in the peloton for the last 10 years. 2 GTs, 4 of 5 monuments, no other team can touch that; not to mention Paris-Nice, who knows how many Criterium Intl's, 2xTour de Suisse, Tirreno Adriatico, 2 polka dot jerseys, a white jersey, multiple GT stage victories and numerous other 1 day races. ..and of course, those victories came from at least 10 different riders, many of whom had been discarded or poorly used by other teams.

Not to mention having to finally admit to doping to win the '96 Tour; having his team leader preemptively booted from the '06 Tour after Operation Puerto; having one of his former wunderkind claim organized doping at CSC; having another of his boys busted for giving Fuentes 7000 euros...

Yeah -- hold that head high, Bjarne!

 

[filipo]

Look on the plus side:

Look on the even more positive side: If (Riis) sods off it can only be good for cycling.

Welcome Kim Anderson!

Andersen raced as a professional in the eighties, winning a stage in the 1983 Tour de France and wearing the yellow jersey for six days. He failed multiple anti-doping tests and was banned from competition before retiring in 1992.

 

[DamonAlbarn]

Frank Schleck out of the tour?

Rolf Sørensen reckons Frank Schleck's tour is in danger after danish tv2 has revealed he was informed of Kim Andersens plans in january.

http://tour2010.tv2.dk/article.php/id-31738763:rolf-fränk-schlecks-tour-kan-ryge.html

 

[Chef_Vodnik]

Rolf Sørensen reckons Frank Schleck's tour is in danger after danish tv2 has revealed he was informed of Kim Andersens plans in january.

http://tour2010.tv2.dk/article.php/id-31738763:rolf-fränk-schlecks-tour-kan-ryge.html

If Frank won't go, Andy won't as well, you can bet on that. That's too much of a risk for Riis, methinks.

By the way, why is it such a big deal that they knew about a new team being formed that they might join? It's their own business, it's not like they're not allowed to be in contact with other teams when their contract is about to run out... Am I missing something here?

 

[Cerberus]

If Frank won't go, Andy won't as well, you can bet on that. That's too much of a risk for Riis, methinks.

By the way, why is it such a big deal that they knew about a new team being formed that they might join? It's their own business, it's not like they're not allowed to be in contact with other teams when their contract is about to run out... Am I missing something here?

Seems pointless in any case. Regardless of whether Riis feel betrayed and regardless of whether he has good reason to, I just don't see what he gains by weakening his own Tour team.

 

[Chef_Vodnik]

Seems pointless in any case. Regardless of whether Riis feel betrayed and regardless of whether he has good reason to, I just don't see what he gains by weakening his own Tour team.

Exactly.
Let them ride, I say. Even if there are differences, which I doubt there are, it would appear to me that an awesome tour team which Saxo is shaping up to be would be muchô in favor of Riis' sponsor search.

 

[joy118118]

If Frank won't go, Andy won't as well, you can bet on that. That's too much of a risk for Riis, methinks.

By the way, why is it such a big deal that they knew about a new team being formed that they might join? It's their own business, it's not like they're not allowed to be in contact with other teams when their contract is about to run out... Am I missing something here?

Is it really like other transfers? I dont think so. Kim Anderson served in Saxo bank and took away their best riders without informing Riis. Everyone knows that Riis relies on the Schlecks to find sponsors. Yes, the Schlecks have the right to contact others. But they did it with a DS Riis trusted. Umm, it reminds of last year's Astana. Unlike Astana, poor Riis has no money and sponsor.

Any other example like the Schlecks?

 

[Chef_Vodnik]

Is it really like other transfers? I dont think so. Kim Anderson served in Saxo bank and took away their best riders without informing Riis. Everyone knows that Riis relies on the Schlecks to find sponsors. Yes, the Schlecks have the right to contact others. But they did it with a DS Riis trusted. Umm, it reminds of last year's Astana. Unlike Astana, poor Riis has no money and sponsor.

Yes, that's pretty much the only issue they're having: They did arrange something behind Bjarne's back with one of his trustees. But that's more the issue of Kim and less one of the Schlecks. They made the mistake to think it would be okay, but Kim started all that, or so it seems.

Anyway, it would still be absolutely bonkers to try and go to the tour without any one of them or, god forbid, without both.

 

[joy118118]

Yes, that's pretty much the only issue they're having: They did arrange something behind Bjarne's back with one of his trustees. But that's more the issue of Kim and less one of the Schlecks. They made the mistake to think it would be okay, but Kim started all that, or so it seems.

Anyway, it would still be absolutely bonkers to try and go to the tour without any one of them or, god forbid, without both.

Well, it is hard to imagine that Saxo Bank has a tour team without the Schlecks. Riis still need to get some results. To Saxo bank's future, there is no difference between with and without the Schlecks. I think the Schlecks matter is done.

Dont think it is less the issue of the Schlecks. They are not naïve kids. They clearly knows what this means to Saxo Bank. Say they made the mistake just like say Lance did okay to Astana.

 

[ergmonkey]

I think the only obligation that the Schlecks and Kim Andersen had to tell Riis was a moral obligation; nonetheless, I'm disappointed with the situation.

Not having the Schlecks on the squad completely changes the sponsorship situation. Moreover, having this sort of surprise right before the Tour makes Riis look unprepared and weak. He would have been in a much better position to find a sponsor if he could have presented a package to prospective sponsors honestly and completely from the start.

I'm also disappointed because I'm a Danish fan and if Riis Cycling goes away late in the season like this, then it is inevitable that some quality Danish riders will be unable to find a Pro Tour ride for next year. Fuglsang, Chris Anker, and Matti Breschel will obviously find a squad. You'd hope that Nicki would, too, now that he'll be showing off the national champs jersey next year--but he is getting a bit long in the tooth. On the other hand, I have trouble imagining that Anders Lund, Mörköv (sorry, typing from Sweden...), Klostergård, Frank Höj, Jonas Aaen, Alex Rasmussen, and Andre Steensen will all be able to find a ride for next season at this point. Or, a solid rider like Alex Rasmussen will get completely low-balled and end up riding for too little money for a second-tier leader undeserving of his total support.

All around, too bad for a lot of people in Danish cycling. The Schlecks should have been able to tell Riis earlier and in confidence without blowing the negotiations with their own new sponsors in Luxembourg. A little more openness from the Schlecks might have helped to ward off some of the present woes and to allow Riis Cycling to prepare better for a pared down program next year.

 

[sportzchick]

I think the only obligation that the Schlecks and Kim Andersen had to tell Riis was a moral obligation; nonetheless, I'm disappointed with the situation.

Not having the Schlecks on the squad completely changes the sponsorship situation. Moreover, having this sort of surprise right before the Tour makes Riis look unprepared and weak. He would have been in a much better position to find a sponsor if he could have presented a package to prospective sponsors honestly and completely from the start.

I'm also disappointed because I'm a Danish fan and if Riis Cycling goes away late in the season like this, then it is inevitable that some quality Danish riders will be unable to find a Pro Tour ride for next year. Fuglsang, Chris Anker, and Matti Breschel will obviously find a squad. You'd hope that Nicki would, too, now that he'll be showing off the national champs jersey next year--but he is getting a bit long in the tooth. On the other hand, I have trouble imagining that Anders Lund, Mörköv (sorry, typing from Sweden...), Klostergård, Frank Höj, Jonas Aaen, Alex Rasmussen, and Andre Steensen will all be able to find a ride for next season at this point. Or, a solid rider like Alex Rasmussen will get completely low-balled and end up riding for too little money for a second-tier leader undeserving of his total support.

All around, too bad for a lot of people in Danish cycling. The Schlecks should have been able to tell Riis earlier and in confidence without blowing the negotiations with their own new sponsors in Luxembourg. A little more openness from the Schlecks might have helped to ward off some of the present woes and to allow Riis Cycling to prepare better for a pared down program next year.

I would have to agee with all that you post - it could of been better handled

There are also alot of great riders in that team that you wonder would find new homes - ones that busted their guts (and probally their bones at some point ) for these two.

Its not the fact they want to start their team - its how theve done it that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Kodiak]

While a bit of a tasteless way of dealing with it they are only doing what anyone else would do in thier position. Keep going with what's paying the bills until a better deal can be secured. Some have complained about what the Shlecks are doing to danish cycling, they aren't Dutch so don't expect that kind of loyalty to the crown...

 

[sportzchick]

few have a problem of them starting their team Kod - its how they are going about it thats gotten some here disappointed and rightly so........Its not what you will do its how you will do it that counts

 

[JPM London]

If Frank won't go, Andy won't as well, you can bet on that. That's too much of a risk for Riis, methinks.

By the way, why is it such a big deal that they knew about a new team being formed that they might join? It's their own business, it's not like they're not allowed to be in contact with other teams when their contract is about to run out... Am I missing something here?

What it seems you're missing is the fact that when the rumour surfaced earlier in the year Riis asked both Andersen and the Schlecks whether there was any truth to it. Then they LIED and said no... Had the Schlecks only been informed and approached in June, as Andersen half-heartedly claims, then they wouldn't have been liars. As it was they were IN MEETINGS w Andersen et al in Lux in JANUARY - that doesn't look too good...

As Riis says - he doesn't mind they're all looking out for number one and taking opportunities of a lifetime - it's the lying about it he's not too keen on. Completely against the ethical values of Team Saxo...

 

[JPM London]

Not to mention having to finally admit to doping to win the '96 Tour; having his team leader preemptively booted from the '06 Tour after Operation Puerto; having one of his former wunderkind claim organized doping at CSC; having another of his boys busted for giving Fuentes 7000 euros...

Yeah -- hold that head high, Bjarne!

First of all sorry, this is clinic stuff but I can't let this hang in the air on its own...

I assume you mean JJ, but as far as I know he never made that claim.
If you don't mind please provide a link...

 

[ergmonkey]

they are only doing what anyone else would do in thier position. Keep going with what's paying the bills until a better deal can be secured.

The problem with this defense of the Schlecks' behavior is that Saxo Bank would have been obliged to "keep paying the bills" even after Fränk and Andy disclosed what they were up to. Merely negotiating with a potential new squad would not in any way have constituted a breach of contract by those two while they continued riding (and winning, no less) for Saxo Bank. It's not as though their current employment security would have simply evaporated at Saxo Bank.

 

[Christian]

What it seems you're missing is the fact that when the rumour surfaced earlier in the year Riis asked both Andersen and the Schlecks whether there was any truth to it. Then they LIED and said no... Had the Schlecks only been informed and approached in June, as Andersen half-heartedly claims, then they wouldn't have been liars. As it was they were IN MEETINGS w Andersen et al in Lux in JANUARY - that doesn't look too good...

As Riis says - he doesn't mind they're all looking out for number one and taking opportunities of a lifetime - it's the lying about it he's not too keen on. Completely against the ethical values of Team Saxo...

Good point, I think I also remember that Riis asked them about it back in March but I'm not 100% sure. If indeed he did, then they behaved really szupidly in lying to him.

On the other hand: at that time everything was probably just starting to take shape, many uncertainties, no one knew whether it was really going to work out ... so they probably wanted to keep the Riis option just in case.

What is also confusing is who approached whom.

Did the Schlecks approach Andersen?

Did Andersen approach the Schlecks?

Did the sponsors/luxembourgish investors approach the Schlecks/Andersen?

Did the Schlecks/Andersen approach the investors?


... and, in my opinion the most confusing of all:

WHY DID NO ONE WANT TO SIMPLY TAKE OVER SAXO BANK AND KEEP WORKING WITH RIIS ???

If anyone could answer that for me I'd be glad.

 

[sportzchick]

WHY DID NO ONE WANT TO SIMPLY TAKE OVER SAXO BANK AND KEEP WORKING WITH RIIS ???

If anyone could answer that for me I'd be glad.

that is a very good question

 

[Beech Mtn]

I thought there were UCI rules about when riders were permitted to negotiate with other teams while still under contract. I thought riders weren't officially allowed to sign anything or announce anything until July or thereabouts, but that riders have always had discussions on the sly but just couldn't get too serious about it.

I admit this is all fuzzy statements. The UCI rules are a mystery to me. I remember there were stories about all this last year when Johan was forming RadioShack with Lance while still under contract with Astana. I thought there were supposed to be some kind of rule changes regarding transfers that were going to be put into effect.