Saxo License Hearing Monday

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

So, if Saxo didn't have to pay Contador (and I'll bet you his wage isn't pennies) don't you think they could afford a handful or riders of a high level instead? Saying a team isn't worthy of WT status solely because they focus on one strong rider seems like a weak argument, since Saxo has been licensed for a year now with just Contador.
It's not like such a team composition is unheard of in pro cycling.

The bigger pitfall I foresee is that even if they do get to keep their license, is that the Valverde rule will be retroactively made to apply to Contador (it was enacted after his positive/notification thereof I believe?) And any points he scores late in the season wont count, forcing Saxo to either lose WT license or abandon Contador so they can afford to buy up riders with enough points for the WT license (a shocking model, really...)

did you read my post?
I said I dislike the one rider approach, I feel like teams should be balanced.

 

[ultimobici]

If they do loose their license it just shows what an amateur circus Pro cycling has become.

In what other sport does a team get relegated if an athlete is santioned for an offence he did while on another team? Especially after the season has started!

Could you imagine a Premire League club being relegated mid-season to the Championship because they lost their star striker and "surely wouldn't be able to compete in the league"? Of course not.

Difference being that in football the team's performance gains relegation or promotion. With the current set-up a team can buy its way into the top tier by virtue of what a rider did before they were ever riding for that team. To use your football analogy, if a sunday league team acquired a full set of Premiership players they'd still have to work their way up through the leagues one by one. In cycling a team can buy their way in à la Greenedge or LeOpard.

Finally but not least, for a sport that depends on sponsors to survive, what kind of message does it send to any potential future sponsors? That there are NO gurantees, WorldTour license or not... Who would be crazy ebough to throw money into a sport as arbitrary as that?
The current lack of new sponsors already reflects this sentiment. This won't help...

The only sane thing would be to keep SAXO in the world tour and let them stay or lose the spot on their own merits. If they manage to get the points they'll still be WorldTour next season. If the team turns out to be too weak they'll go. That is as it should be.

Good point, let them sink or swim without Contador.

 

[Cimber]

So who would have earned SaxoBank points?

Hushovd? Fuglsang? JTL?

Contador cost half the team budget. Surely without him they could have afforded 3-4 big stars. Also all the domestiques could have earned more points for themselves.

 

[DominicDecoco]

But they didnt sign quality riders, even after they saved money from Cancellara's transfer to Leo-Trek. Even when lots of riders were available after HTC and Geox were closed. They only managed to get Kroon. So much for the reputation and (apparantly) lots of money to spend from the Cancellara deal.

You don't get it do you? Read my post above. No reason for my to repeat myself.

And they got Kroon in the 2011 transfer period where Berto was in the team. Not in the 2010 transfer period.

 

[Leonardus]

I believe Saxo just can't afford it to sign any big names because their budget has decreased in recent years. Riis already didn't have a very generous budget when the Schlecks and Cancellara were still there but it's a lot less now.
And Contador doesn't take up half the budget because he had a deal with Specialized and they pay a large part of his salary, in return Saxo rides Specialized bikes ofcourse.

So with Contador out for 6 months and his points taken away I think it just turns out they don't have the money nor the riders to be able to compete in the WorldTour. But I hope they will prove me wrong in the coming months.

 

[biopass]

Contador cost half the team budget. Surely without him they could have afforded 3-4 big stars. Also all the domestiques could have earned more points for themselves.

Nonsense. Cancellara leaved the team after Contador was signed. So Saxo had the budget to have both Contador and Cancellara in the team at the same time.

 

[biopass]

You don't get it do you? Read my post above. No reason for my to repeat myself.

And they got Kroon in the 2011 transfer period where Berto was in the team. Not in the 2010 transfer period.

Its doesnt matter when they got Kroon. The fact they only got Kroon suggest they're not that attractive. Despite the reputation and their budget.

 

[Cimber]

Its doesnt matter when they got Kroon. The fact they only got Kroon suggest they're not that attractive. Despite the reputation and their budget.

The fact that they only get Kroon is cos Contador takes up most of the budget and that other teams with huge budgets forces up the prices (just see the recent article on cn.com frontpage about salaties rising ALOT over the last 2 years).

However, they could easily afford to sign 2-3 big stars had they not had Contador on the payroll

 

[biopass]

The fact that they only get Kroon is cos Contador takes up most of the budget and that other teams with huge budgets forces up the prices (just see the recent article on cn.com frontpage about salaties rising ALOT over the last 2 years).

However, they could easily afford to sign 2-3 big stars had they not had Contador on the payroll

So where's the money from the Cancellara deal? The money saved from Cancellaras salary?

 

[DominicDecoco]

So where's the money from the Cancellara deal? The money saved from Cancellaras salary?

They are paying Contador's salary?

Saxo has been on a tight budget ever since the IT-Factory scandal and Bjarne has to keep the finances at a responsable level. He has managed and that is one of the pros to keep their license.

To say that riding for Saxo in 2010 was not attractive is just a laughable postulate really.

 

[Cimber]

Nonsense. Cancellara leaved the team after Contador was signed. So Saxo had the budget to have both Contador and Cancellara in the team at the same time.

So u are actually arguing that Riis has loads of money but no1 want to join the team?

Btw about what Contador costs for the team:

http://feltet.dk/nyheder/-_contador_koster_det_samme_som_fem_stjerner/

About Cancellara leaving: he got a huge salary increase at Leopard indicating that his value + rider salaries in general has increased alot while Riis's budget hasnt.

About Canellara leaving which should leave alot of room the the budget for other riders:

1) as said rider salaries have incresed ALOT since cancellara signed his deal with Riis, meaning that any substitutes for Cancellara would be rather expensive compared to value-for-money u got from the old Cancellara deal. Saxo Bank cant compete with the budgets of Sky, BMC, Radio-leo, Greenedge.
2) Riis signed Nuyens AFTER Cancellara left the team. While he probably cost less than Fabian he would still take up a chunk of the budget.
3) Some riders they have extended with have probably gotten a increase in payments (Chris Anker Sørensen and JJ)
4) Saxo Bank only signs for 1 year at a time (low future job security for riders)

Overall: Riis as a nice budget, but team like BMC, Sky, Leo have just overtaken him big time budget-wise. And Contador costs a ****load of money

 

[roundabout]

Uh, wasn't there news about Saxo willing to pay extra money for a top-level rider (riders)?

Must have been why Paulinho decided to sign with Riis instead of all the other teams queuing after his signature.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Uh, wasn't there news about Saxo willing to pay extra money for a top-level rider (riders)?

Must have been why Paulinho decided to sign with Riis instead of all the other teams queuing after his signature.

Yes, but that was little money in comparison to the big guns who had turned the whole market upside down. But that was THIS year's transfer period. Contador signed in 2010. Had he not signed in 2010 the team would have been different. Why do you keep talking about 2011 transfer period when it's the 2010's that matters?

 

[roundabout]

Why does the 2010 transfer period matter when it's about the 2012 license?

 

[biopass]

They are paying Contador's salary?

Saxo has been on a tight budget ever since the IT-Factory scandal and Bjarne has to keep the finances at a responsable level. He has managed and that is one of the pros to keep their license.

To say that riding for Saxo in 2010 was not attractive is just a laughable postulate really.

Come on. Contador didnt sign for Saxobank after Cancellara left the team. Cancellara left the team after Contador was signed. With those facts in mind, anyone can figure out that Riis had the budget to have both Contador and Cancellara within his team. Therefore, the money saved from Cancellara is not, will not, and has never been planned to pay Contadors salary, or any of his domestiques salary for that matter.

 

[biopass]

Yes, but that was little money in comparison to the big guns who had turned the whole market upside down. But that was THIS year's transfer period. Contador signed in 2010. Had he not signed in 2010 the team would have been different. Why do you keep talking about 2011 transfer period when it's the 2010's that matters?

Because in 2011 there were alot more quality riders available that Riis could have signed.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Why does the 2010 transfer period matter when it's about the 2012 license?

Because the team would look different in 2011 and this year if Saxo hadn't signed Contador in 2010.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Because in 2011 there were alot more quality riders available that Riis could have signed.

Not while having Contador in the squad ffs.. And no there weren't. Those who were out of contract before this season we offered contracts that only the few could pay.

 

[biopass]

Not while having Contador in the squad ffs.. And no there weren't. Those who were out of contract before this season we offered contracts that only the few could pay.

Tony Martin went to Omega-Pharma Quickstep. Cobo went to Moviestar and Menchov to Katusha. All in all they went to teams that hasnt turned the salarys up side down.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Tony Martin went to Omega-Pharma Quickstep. Cobo went to Moviestar and Menchov to Katusha. All in all they went to teams that hasnt turned the salarys up side down.

To be fair, Katusha are often described as the biggest budget team, while OPQS had a lot of people coming and going and probably had a certain amount of flexibility in terms of allocating their rider budget.

 

[Cimber]

Tony Martin went to Omega-Pharma Quickstep. Cobo went to Moviestar and Menchov to Katusha. All in all they went to teams that hasnt turned the salarys up side down.

Riis cant compete with those teams cos he spends most of his budget on Contador. Had Contador not been on the team he could probably have gotten at least 2 of the above mentioned riders (if not all 3) for the same money he spends on Contador.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Tony Martin went to Omega-Pharma Quickstep. Cobo went to Moviestar and Menchov to Katusha. All in all they went to teams that hasnt turned the salarys up side down.

Martin followed Holm, Menchov was a outsider for The Tour (now podium favorite) and Bjarne said this about the Cobo rumour.

"Folk må også gerne lige tænke sig lidt om," forklarer Bjarne Riis overfor Sporten.dk og påpeger: "Jeg har et budget for 2012, som jeg skal overholde. Og det betyder, at der altså ikke lige er 500.000, 1 million eller sågar 2 millioner euro i overskud, så jeg kunne gå ud og gøre noget nu, hvor markedet er lukket."

 

[roundabout]

Because the team would look different in 2011 and this year if Saxo hadn't signed Contador in 2010.

coulda, woulda, shoulda

why not skip the sporting criterion and focus on the budget size when deciding on the license.

for 8 million team x can hypothetically have a WT worthy team

good enough

doesn't matter if the actual interest in that team might be somewhat limited or the team doesn't perform ala Geox

 

[roundabout]

Martin followed Holm, Menchov was a outsider for The Tour (now podium favorite) and Bjarne said this about the Cobo rumour.

"Folk må også gerne lige tænke sig lidt om," forklarer Bjarne Riis overfor Sporten.dk og påpeger: "Jeg har et budget for 2012, som jeg skal overholde. Og det betyder, at der altså ikke lige er 500.000, 1 million eller sågar 2 millioner euro i overskud, så jeg kunne gå ud og gøre noget nu, hvor markedet er lukket."

Ah, so the big money Movistar team that turned the market upside down managed to sign Cobo.

Must have cost them millions.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Yeah, Cobo is a little fish...

I don't know Moviestar financial details.